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Leeana

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Okay i have been trying to train Coco for all this stuff and fix all his problems that he has with behavior. This one is really starting to bug me. All the punishments are making me feel evil and i dont want him to think that i hate him or make him hate me. I cant even go to sleep at night without going out to give him a kiss and tell him goodnight.

Problem #1 part A

Coco can not come out of his stall without dragging me around the barn for 5 minutes before we make it outside. He drives me crazy ...i've tried allot of stuff. I grab him about 5 inches away from the halter and try dragging him but he turns and it takes about 5 minutes to get him out of the barn. When he turns i smack his Butt and thats part of why i feel evil and sometimes if he is pulling to hard i know i cant give in and let him drag me so we end up with is butt toward me and pulling away from me and im scared its going to hurt his kneck but i was told i cant give in.

prob #1 part B

Going into his stall is as hard as getting him out of it correctly. He has to be dragged into it. He isnt in there much exept at night and when he eats (other then grass). I want to train him to do without me having to pull a muscle.

PROBLEM #2

Getting him back to the barn is hard to. I usually take him for a walk at night/walk and trot him for a while (which we do in my yard where its gras *everwhere around here is grass so i cant find someplace else. If i do it on the driveway he either wants to role or drag me to the grass). But back on topic ...it takes a long time to get him back to the barn bc he stops and puts his butt to me and eats and all the way back we stop every 3 steps.

I REALLY need help. I have no idea ..i thought mine would work fine but its not working at all. I dont want to hurt him and i dont want him to hate me but its time for his to learn some respect and then after that he can love me all he wants. But i do need help. FAST bc im loosing my mind and im sure he isnt loving this either.

Also i think it might just be our barn. Dad built me my own 'pony barn' in like 2 days. He took the roof off our old garage that burnt down and put it on some boards and put sides on it. Its only about 15feet-15feet. Im going to make him Build me a actual barn sometimes soon bc im in desperate need of a new horse barn. Im going to start drawing out the plans ASAP.
 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]Ok first you have to work on the not dragging you around. Smacking him in the butt is just more impulsion for him to go forward! You need to get a stud chain and use it over his nose. When he bolts out of his stall you put him IMMEDIATELY back in! In fact before he ever gets all the way out you make him BACK back in. dont ask him for anything else for a few days. No walks no nothing. Out too graze in to eat. Come in and out of the stall two or three times each time until he walks calmly next to you. Dont move onto another step until he gets this one. If he is deciding where the walks take place by his bad behavior then he believes that he is your master and not the other way around. He knows now that he can drag and pull you wherever. For now his stall is his space and anything outside of it is yours and he better be thankful you are letting him into it.[/SIZE]

I feel like you are afraid of him even though you love him and he knows it. HE will continue to take charge until you do! Is he your first horse ever? How big is he.? I would like to know more about you and Cocos history. Then I can help better.

Lyn
 

justaboutgeese

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A stud chain can be a lead rope with a 18 to 24 inch chain with snap attached at one end. It fastens from one side of the halter under the chin and out the other side of the halter. When he lurches , jumps or whatever he supplies his own punishment. When he stops so does the pain. After one or two episodes they catch on pretty fast. I recommended this on one other thread and caught a bunch of flames for it. If you used with violent yanks and mis used by a novice I suppose it might have drawbacks. If you ever see horses at race tracks, rodeos, sales barns, stud farms, virtually anyplace you see horses you will see them being led with a chain over or under the nose. It gives the handler a large amount of control over an animal that might otherwise create a hazard to the handler , bystanders or other animals.
 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]you have to get a handle on his behavior or it will get worse. Be a tough love "parent" I was diciplined as a child and I dont hate my parents. Likewise I diciplined my children and they dont hate me. Stud chain is just a term used as geese said a lead rope with an 18 inch section of chain. If you use it right it doesnt cause injury. I use it on my stallion Sweet Tart and have used it on Teddy the gelding a time or two. A 31 inch horse should not get the best of you! Make him stand tied while you are out there working. Tie him in his stall for 20 minutes at a time. he will be glad to walk with you when you come to get him. Walk him thru his door and then as I said BACK him back into the stall. Use your body language to make your point. I have bellowed at Sweet Tart before as if I were a bigger stud than he is . I pushed him against the wall on two occassions bellowing at him and he finally got the message who was in charge. Just take one step at a time and start with the coming in and out.[/SIZE]

BTW I still kiss Sweet Tart goodnight when he is home.

Lyn
 

Leeana

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Thanks to both of you ..i plan on getting a stud chain within the next couple days. Im going to take your advice Lyn_J and show him who the boss is. I think im going to try some of that stuff. He just needs to learn who the boss is first and then i think we can go from there. He needs allot of other training to but i think i can cover that pretty quick. Hes a fast learner once he gets the hang of it.
 

alphahorses

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You're getting some very good advice here. But sometimes it's easier to be shown than told. I see you are a Junior. Do you have a 4H leader or another adult would could help you out?

Oh, and some of my horses get regular kisses too... and even like it :)
 
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K

kaykay

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rarely do i disagree with lyn but tonight im going to. I never recommend that an inexperienced person use a stud chain OVER the nose. Always under. I know she says she has big horse experience but reading these posts makes me think shes probably never had to actually train a horse.

Second. The horse is not even halter broke from the sounds of it. Halter broke does not mean "i can put a halter on the horse"


Here is what halter broke means to me

Horse walks quietly AWAY from my leg (not hugging my leg) on a nice loose lead

horse stops on command

horse will stand quietly

horse will walk, trot etc on command

horse will back up

most important horse gives to pressure

I never beat my horses or scream at them etc. And they are all pretty nicely behaved. They know im the boss because of my attitude. Body language means so much when you train a horse. Stand tall and confident. Be confident in every thing you do around your horse. And most important remember everytime you handle that horse you are teaching him something. Be sure its a good something. I would start at square one and start completely over with this horse starting with who controls the feed.

Kay
 

ClickMini

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I actually prefer to teach a horse to give to pressure without a chain or any "punishment" per se. The release is the reward, and you can speed up the process by using clicker training, however that is not a requirement.

There is an article here about teaching a horse to give. Instead of using the bridle, just use your halter and lead rope. There are a lot of good articles on this site in addition to this one: http://clickryder.com/give.html so just have a look around.

I suggest that you check a book out from the Library called, "Don't Shoot the Dog," by Karen Pryor. It is not really about dog training, but about training and learning principles for all species. Karen Pryor started her life teaching dolphins. How hard would it be to teach a dolphin, a being you cannot put a leash on or push around? You have to get them engaged in the process. It is a very interesting book. You might also see if they have Alexandra Kurland's book, "The Click That Teaches, a Step-by-Step Guide in Pictures." EXCELLENT, highly recommend it, and it will for sure help you get through these problems without feeling "evil."
Or maybe you might be able to get your parents to buy it or you can buy it yourself at http://www.theclickercenter.com

Good luck! And just remember that you love Coco, and he loves you!
 

rabbitsfizz

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Thanks Click, you got here before me!! (The irony is, I've never used clicker training, I just know it works!!) OK good advice. In the meantime, without chains and hassle and fuss- easiest way to stop him, right now?? Get a nylon or heavyweight lunge line- tie one end at the desired length- ie pace out how far from the stall door he can go- to the stall gate post, attach the other end to Coco. When he makes his bid for freedom, stand back and let him go!!! If you can get a slightly longer than usual lead rope so you are still attached, all the better. Walk calmly to him- he will be standing there wondering what happened- praise him warmly , unclip lunge line and walk off as if nothing happened. Pulling, lugging to grass, rolling?? Go with the flow, do not stress!!! Put a MUZZLE on him- let him pull to the grass, get frustrated, take him away. Repeat ad nauseum!! Believe me he will get tired of this before you do!! Another version is a loose check rein- you can rig one up yourself, no need for anything posh. PM me if you need instructions. OK Rolling?? Take him somewhere YOU decide- somewhere with nice dirt, or even make him a sand box, and say "Rollie's Coco, Good Lad
) (This is what I do - you say what you want) Let him roll as much as he wants, then when he gets up put on his muzzle or his check and go for your walk. When you return, have another rope, or the lungeline, pulled out in front of his stall in the barn but NOT tied to the stall- loose at the other end. If he refuses to go in, attach the clip end to his halter, go into the barn and take up the slack, open his stall door, attach the rein as far inside as possible, put a small feed in the stall in reach of the rein, go back outside, go behind him and encourage him in. If he really will not enter get a book and a chair, sit where you can sort things out and prevent him from getting tangled, and wait. As soon as he moves in take up the slack on the rope and walk with him, slightly to his rear, as soon as he is in his stall take of the check/muzzle and let him have the feed. Over the many years I have battled with so many horses I have found it is far, far easier all round to just outwit them
This method is passive all the way through- I have done the line attached to the stall door with some pretty impressive Arabs going at pretty impressive speeds and no-one got hurt or even upset. What they did do was stop exiting at speed. The entering the stall method I love because, just as a stud chin is self inflicted punishment, this one is self rewarding, which I feel is much nicer. I do not use stud chains on any of my Minis, not in the ring nor at home, but they do have a place- I used one on a Welsh Cob I was retraining because he was a bully and if he got away he would hurt himself- I put it over the nose only as he reared. He behaves now
Take what you feel comfiest with from what everyone has offered, I am happiest doing things MY way, of course, you have to work out what is best for you and Coco. Good Luck.
 

Kendra

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First of all, you don't have to feel "evil" for disciplining your horse for inappropriate and potential dangerous behaviour. Think of it this way: if he lived in a heard of horses, how would the boss mare react if he showed her the kind of disrespect he's showing you? She'd beat the crap out of him! And you're not doing that!

We had a few horses here that had been treated more as pets than horses, and felt that they could do whatever they wanted, which primarily meant they drug you everywhere and it's amazing how hard it is to stop a 28" horse that knows darn well he can drag you. I just let him get a little ahead of me and pulled on the shank to spin him around to face me, then told him what a good boy he was! Only took about three times and he was good, and is still good, he's been out on pasture this summer, but when I went to catch him he led good as can be.

Horses are used to living in a heirarchy, and they are much happier when they know you're the boss and can be trusted to make decisions for them.
 

_minihorses4ever_

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I didn't read any of the posts, so sorry if I am repeating.

To me, it sounds like he just doesn't like being in that darn stall!

First, I would make sure there is nothing scaring him in his stall. Is there is tree branch that screeches in the side of it? Is there anything that would make "scary" noises? Can he see out of his stall? I would make sure he can, because that is not fun for him!

He rushes to get out, and hates going in! I don't think this needs punishment, but encouragement to let him know being in the stall is FUN!

Make sure you feed him in his stall, so being in the stall means food! Just spend time with him in the stall, groom him pet him, and give him lots of kisses and treats! Maybe get him a jolleyball to play with? Maybe have a few friends over and spend the night in the barn!

And don't just put him in his stall for the night, spend LOTS of FUN time in the stall!

This is my take on the situation, this is how I would handle it! Good luck!
 

Range

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From what I've been taught for many years, the stud chain under the nose is more harsh since the chin is more tender.

Anyhow, this colt definitely knows he is the boss. And, sorry for this opinion, he is not halter broke if you can't get him to respect the halter at all times. We have a mini mare who loves grass. When I lead her, she doesn't try to drag or get to the grass, however, when my mother in law leads her, she's awful. Fifi knows I won't stand for it.

I agree that the barn is a new thing for him and his stall is scary. I have a TB mare who came off the track that hates being in a stall. She can't see or hear and has minor panic attacks. We feed her in there, make sure there's alfalfa in there, I've groomed her in there, and built from five minutes up to a max of two hours to let her know there's nothing to be afraid of. Follow the suggestions to get Coco used to the stall and the barn.

With the bullying he's doing with you...don't let your lead rope get so long that he can get ahead of you...if he's ahead of you, he can kick you, and probably will. If you don't want to use a stud chain, for a while, keep your lead rope short and keep his nose tipped towards you. He needs to know you are boss, so if you can get in front of him, even with just your hand, that will show him something, too.

You have gotten a lot of advice here and I don't want to upset you, but this horse will continue to bully you unless you really work on this.
 

SunQuest

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Range said:
From what I've been taught for many years, the stud chain under the nose is more harsh since the chin is more tender.
Yes, but, there is greater damage that can be done with a chain over the top of the nose. The danger is that if your halter is not properly fit (and I would say that at least 1/2 of the people with horses have halters that are too loose) and that if you don't have the stud chain on properly you will break the horse's nose bone.

If you put the chain under the chin, then that bone can withstand the pressure of the chain better as the jaw bones are not nearly as delicate as the tip of the nose bone. Also, any rubbing from the chain that causes the hair to come off the face will be out of site which is important if you show your horse.

The only time I use a chain over the top of the nose is if I wish to keep the front legs on the ground as in a breeding stallion or a horse with a rearing problem. Otherwise it is always under the nose for the above reasons.

LoveCoCo...

If you are untrained on the use of a stud chain (which if you don't know what one is, then obviously one most likely doesn't have any training with it), then one shouldn't be using it! It can be torture for the horse if you don't know how to use it properly!

If you are having such troubles with Coco with the basics, then you need help from someone who can show you what to do. Go pay a trainer to come and give the horse AND you a lesson or two that will deal specifically with his issues. It will be well worth you money to do so! And remember, Coco doesn't see you as his friend. He sees you as another horse and is applying his herd rules to you. You MUST think like a horse and be the lead mare to let him know that you are the biggest B*!@& in the pasture and after he understands that then you can be his best friend. Until then, he will just continue to push you around.
 

WhyMinis

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You say that lately he has just gotten awful. What has changed in his life? I doubt that the type of barn that your father built is the reason but are you keeping him in more? Changed his feed? Different hours for grazing?

The only time I have had this type of problem with a horse there was a reason for it. Think about changes you have made in his schedule? Look for the reason for the change in behavior and then change the reason if possible... then attempt to address whatever symptoms are left.
 
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kaykay

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Yes, but, there is greater damage that can be done with a chain over the top of the nose. The danger is that if your halter is not properly fit (and I would say that at least 1/2 of the people with horses have halters that are too loose) and that if you don't have the stud chain on properly you will break the horse's nose bone.

thank you nila this is what i was trying nicely to say


A chain under the chin only has to be used (at least i have found) for a few sessions and then you are done with it except maybe when breeding a stallion.

edited to say nevermind
 
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ClickMini

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KayKay, I am curious where you feel that the help offered was being put down? I feel this has been a civilized thread with many different suggestions? And a person who seems to be trying to assimilate how she will use the information. I just didn't get that feeling from this thread, just wondering where you saw the contention?
 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]you mentioned in another thread that Coco was one of the horses you got at the auction? This behavior is probably why he was sold there. Too bad you dont have a history on him that would help to understand his issues.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 

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