I am Shocked,

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

mininik

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,846
Reaction score
0
Location
PNW
To me it seems like such a colossal and costly undertaking to create another new association not necessarily to register Miniatures, but in effect to help promote the breed and to "help fix" the problems of the Miniature breed's other associations/registries (AMHA/AMHR). As it sounds, many of the founding members of the IAMHA are already on the boards of the AMHA/AMHR, so why not use your collective power within to promote the breed and work on the problems from there? If an outside association is needed, why hasn't the AMHA joined USEF as the ASPC/AMHR has?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

spazkat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Messages
122
Reaction score
0
I also am really concerned about the time spent on this, when the same effort could have been put into some committees with AMHA and AMHR, to improve things, create some futurities and shows like this THERE to support what we already have!!

I don't like this at all, and personally, will not support it.

Seems like a HUGE conflict of interest to me, with folks working with AMHA, but putting together something like this to take more money from an already troubled organization.
I dont see where the underhanded part comes from. If in the course of doing my job (or volunteer work or whatever) I have ideas on how things could be done better, or ideas on ways to solve problems.. but for one reason or another they arent interested in pursuing them, how is it wrong to then take those ideas and apply them to something else? Example: Im an accountant. If the firm I currently work for is doing a shoddy job and I see clients leaving and in general not happy, and suggestions I make dont get any response, I have no responsibility to then keep my ideas to myself. They do not "own my ideas" if I make the suggestion to them first but they dont make use of them. Many many people have become dissatisfied with their job at some point and started to make plans to go into business for themselves without having any obligation to quit their current position as soon as they begin to make plans.

Most of the issues that this group seems to be addressing are things that Ive seen others on the board complain about for a long time. If the AMHA (or R for that matter) had any immediate intentions of changing how they do things they would have done so in response to your concerns a long time ago. It seems to me that the people who recognize the problems with the current organization and are most familiar with the processes involved are the best suited to creating an organization like this, not traitorous for doing so.
 

Al B

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Messages
904
Reaction score
60
Location
Cypress, Texas
John has answered your questions much more thouroughly and eloquently than I ever could. However, here is my story.

About a week and a half ago Susan and I were approached to become a founding member of IAMHA. As many of you have, my initial reaction was that here is a group of people that are attempting to put together a registry to compete with AMHA and subsequently destroy my AMHA. Yes, I say my because those of you that know us know that we put our heart and soul into working for the AMHA. We go to all the local shows, several of the out of town shows, the regional show and the World show; every year. And, we don't go to watch; we participate. We take horses, spend lots of hard earned money (and I can assure you we are not wealthy or elitist, or malcontent). We sweat, work hard and do all of our own training and almost always have at least 1 or 2 kids we are mentoring. We attend board meetings (we are not on the board) and we attend the National meeting. We work on committees and give them our full attention. Making AMHA a better, stronger organization is our goal. It benefits us all. We also attend AMHR shows and are AMHR members and all of our horses are registered both AMHA and AMHR. We intend to continue this endeavor.

After speaking with several members and carefully reading the bylaws we decided to join.

IAMHA is not a registry nor will it ever be.

IAMHA is not in competition with any registry.

IAMHA is not affiliated or supported by any registry.

IAMHA is not an attempt to destroy the AMHA. If I ever thought that I would be gone immediatly.

IAMHA is a group of individuals who, using their own money, intend to promote the American Miniature Horse and in doing so hopefully will increase the membership of both AMHA and AMHR and increase the market for sales; both mine and yours.

Some of you have determined the letter to AMHA to be an "or else" demand. It is not. It is in fact a list of recommendations gleaned from your very comments. Do I agree with all of them? Some more than others but they are only recommendations.

I know some of you see this a only negative and so be it. I can't change your mind. But, I believe the IAMHA can be a viable marketing tool that will help all of us. Give us a chance.

default_smile.png
 

skanzler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Messages
247
Reaction score
0
Ok well I have read all the responses and John's come backs.

I have a couple of questions?>????

If you and your group have been working on this organizaiton for a year and have listed the issues that need to be addressed by AMHA and possibly AMHR. And you have several on the BOD at AMHA. Why can you not get together and help to make these things come to play through the right channels? Like attending the meeetings and putting up proposals and then talking with the members and having them vote these new rules, regs or changes into effect. Why do you need a seperate orangization to do this?

My next question is, who is this really benefiting. It seems to me that the only ones that this group will benefit is the ones that have organized it. Because I don't know about anyone else on this thread, but I was never approached to be a part of this organization..... And since the big breeders and big money is located primarily in Texas and this is where the first auctions and shows with the big payouts are being put on, how does that benefit me?????? It seems to me that the only ones that will be making money from all these new people and new markets are those that have the money to put on this big events. I dont' know of any of the small breeders that were asked if we would like to participate in this endeavor or asked if we would like to help to put on seminars. It just seems that we will see the same big names and faces on the tabloids........

I am thinking that the ideas that you bring up with what is wrong with our Registry make sense. I do not see how this organization will change anything, that some organized meetings and member input and backing could not take care of.
 

brookhaven

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Location
Summerfield, NC
IAMHA is not a registry nor will it ever be.IAMHA is not in competition with any registry.

IAMHA is not affiliated or supported by any registry.

IAMHA is not an attempt to destroy the AMHA. If I ever thought that I would be gone immediatly.

IAMHA is a group of individuals who, using their own money, intend to promote the American Miniature Horse and in doing so hopefully will increase the membership of both AMHA and AMHR and increase the market for sales; both mine and yours.
Thank you Al and John, for clarifying things. From the posts, I feel very encouraged by this organization. It appears they have listened to everything we gripe about, have found viable solutions and are attempting to make it attractive enough for people to participate and learn...which is essential if ANY registry is to survive and grow. I would go to a Super Show if I thought I might earn some big bucks, points or no points. I would love to see classes such as long lines, lunge line, etc. I'm more and more interested....
 

JWC sr.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
11
Location
Santa Fe Texas
Folks,

It sounds good that AMHA will make some changes, but the fact is that it is a long and tedious process for them to change even one rule.

It has to go thru committee, the commttee has to make a recomendation to the board and the board has to approve the change. Then it is given to the membership to vote on at the National meeting. If it passes than two years later it goes into effect. The only way around that is to have the president declare it is an emergency. If he did that on all the changes we suggested he would probally get hung.

So we made our recomendations, hope they will inact them and at some later date the suggestions we made will be considered by the members of AMHA.

Let me give you an example, we think horse should be measured at the withers. Some folks agree with that and some do not. Which is fine and I also believe you will get a chance to vote on that sometime in the future at a National meeting, if it passes then two years later it will go into effect unless the emergency ruling is declared.

But in the meantime we as a private group will be putting on shows that will measure at the withers and offering cash prizes like no one has seen in the industry before.

This will be different, but it should be fun and attract some new folks in the industry. And that is why we wanted to be independent, yet involved with AMHA and AMHR.

We want to be nimble, responsive and attentive to the wants and needs of the Miniature Horse community. Not tied down by rules and regulations of a really large organization, many of those rules are so complicated it would take 15 phili. lawyers to understand them.

Mark my words this new group will be active in promoting the American Miniature in any manner we can think of, additionally it should help everyone but a select few that are now involved in the Miniature industry from a fun and also a financial standpoint.

John Cherry

IAMHA
 
Last edited by a moderator:

disneyhorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
5,382
Reaction score
192
This thread is very interesting, and I do love the "industry news" that is often discussed here.

First of all, I never have a problem with new organizations being created, no matter HOW they are created. Organizations often form to fill a niche that the founders feel needs filling.

I commend the founders for having a "peaceful coexistence" platform as that will be crucial.

My only suggestion is that the founders to perhaps... be a little more inclusive of AMHR and other organizations to help avoid negative feelings that it is "against AMHA" and was created to undermine AMHA.

Of course there will ALWAYS be people for and against new organizations... because the existing organizations need to aggressively protect it's own interests. This is what politics is about.

I wish the founders luck, and that they fill some niche. Organizations either thrive or fail according to it's usefulness to the public. Hopefully there is some use for this organization and that they truly try to preserve a peaceful coexistence with the existing Registries and act as good ambassadors for our beloved small equine.

Andrea
 

JWC sr.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
11
Location
Santa Fe Texas
Oh one other thing, someone ask what good was an un-sanctioned, un-pointed show. Which is only one facet of our agenda.

Very simply, we will be giving out tack and cash instead of trophies, ribbons and points. Again we are not looking to compete with AMHA or AMHR, that is what the sanctioned shows are for.

But it is easier to explain to a newcomer that has been involved in some other organization or has heard about other organizations like the cutting horses that there is prize money to be won. But they have to buy and own a registered AMHR or AMHA horse first. Guess what you could be the one that sells it to that person. Wouldn't that be great.

Additionally I love getting cash in our local futurity classes, it makes it really neat after the show to be able to say "Dinner is on my horses when it goes well".

John Cherry

IAMHA
 
K

kaykay

Guest
John

I have always enjoyed your posts. But I cant shake this bad feeling I get reading your website. You guys say one thing but your website says something entirely different. For example the following statements:

In recent years, it has become known there are many issues which have weakened the AMHA. The reason and motivation for these issues is not nearly as important as the fact of where they have led or the path these issues have forced the organization to take.

Currently, the AMHA is experiencing troubling trends (see below) with declines in multiple areas and there is no noticeable indication that a recovery is solidly in process:

Now i agree with these statements but I dont see how AMHA is going to appreciate that and be willing to work with your group? And please tell us what you guys know that we dont. Because obviously you know something more then we do lol.

Now al says this group WILL NEVER be a registry but your website says:

In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.

So I guess this is what troubles me. Posting one thing here on LB, but publishing something else on your website. I just want people to say what they really mean.
 

Belinda

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
775
Reaction score
5
As far as money is concerned we are not affliliated with any registry whatsoever. And do not intend to be. But we are concerned members of AMHA and AMHR, but all funding has been done by our founding members. We also have several corporate sponsers that will be coming on line in the next few months we think, that will help.

Cherryville farms
To touch on this statment above ! As John said AMHR HAS NOT GIVEN ANY $$$$ TO THIS GROUP :nono: .

As it sounds, many of the founding members of the IAMHA are already on the boards of the AMHA/AMHR, so why not use your collective power within to promote the breed and work on the problems from there? If an outside association is needed, why hasn't the AMHA and AMHR joined USEF as the ASPC has
And to clarify one or two things on this statement
default_wacko.png
: First there are NO ASPC/AMHR DIRECTORS INVOLVED IN THIS. :nono: :nono:

 


And ASPC/AMHR ARE INVOLVED WITH USEF !!
default_yes.gif
:
default_yes.gif
:

 


Sincerely


Belinda Bagby


Area V Director

 

 


P.S.


And for any other comments from my personal feelings I will just hold on to those for now..
default_wink.png
:
default_frusty.gif
:
default_frusty.gif
:
 

Al B

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Messages
904
Reaction score
60
Location
Cypress, Texas
KayKay as I said we have only been affiliated with this group a very short time and John is certainly much more knowledgable than I, but it is my belief that this organiztion has no preconceived desire to become a registry.

I am sorry if my comments mislead anyone.
 

JWC sr.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
11
Location
Santa Fe Texas
Just to clarify. Belinda is exactly right and I hope with the private email I just sent her a few minutes ago she understands where we are at and where we are going. She is a person I respect and value in this industry.
default_yes.gif
:

As far as the concerns from Kay Kay, I think I understand what and why you are questioning the excerts you are. But even with that understanding I don't really understand is what I have not made clear. It is not our intention to ever have a registry under our control or banner so to speak.

But as prudent business people I cannot rule out the possibility that someday if things were to go from where we are standing today which ( which is okay under the circumstances) to be completely dismantled we would not re-vist opening a registry as a last resort. And in an effort to make people aware that we had considered that possiblity would seem to be to be fisically responsible to me.

I will tell you though that in the beginning of this group, several from outside the state and one from within that left the group becuase they were made very aware of our adversion to even thinking about opening another registry. That is what they wanted and they did not fit into our group and our goals.

John Cherry

IAMHA
 

Al B

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Messages
904
Reaction score
60
Location
Cypress, Texas
Thank you Marty for your kind endorsement. We have worked hard to achieve what success we have had in miniatures and owe it all to the AMHA. We will never be part of any endeavor to discredit or hurt the registry in any way.

By the way, Carolyn Garrison is a friend of mine and lives here in Texas.

Carolyn Garrison - Petite Acres Miniatures [[email protected]]
 

Miniv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
12,747
Reaction score
681
Just for the record (as if anyone may care) I am reserving opinion on this.

I am interested in knowing more and happen to see some names listed that I have respect for and cannot believe they would be involved in anything underhanded or damaging to either AMHA or AMHR.

MA
 

Buckskin gal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
2,628
Reaction score
0
Where would a person find a list of all the names of those who are now in this group? thanks, Mary
 

Belinda

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
775
Reaction score
5
default_unsure.png
:
default_unsure.png
: Just got off the phone with John, had another of our great conversations
default_wub.png
: LOL!! But after talking with him and listening to what he had to say , I will say it might be worth watching ,listening and following up on what they are getting done.
default_wink.png
:

Change is NOT always bad ! I am a hard sell to change because I get comfortable in what I am familiar with
default_yes.gif
: And I think that happens to alot of people..
default_wacko.png
:

The only thing that I ask several times was not to let it get so $$$$$ minded that it left the MOM & POP's out that did this for the fun and enjoyment.. Money is great and we all need it no doubt, but then I have never been one to think that money was EVERYTHING !! As I have said before there are those that have and show their miniature horses for the fun and family time together..

With that all said I wish them all the best and I will be listening and watching to see how things go. :aktion033:
 

hhpminis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
1,733
Reaction score
2
Location
Otis Orchards, Washington (just east of Spokane)
I have been at a loss of words most of the day with this one and as all of you may know that doesn't happen often. My initial gut feeling was not to trust as I feel we have been given a piece of candy and sent out to play with the other kids while the adults discuss business.

I dont understand how all these ideas and thoughts could be sitting around a board table and not gotten any results. Do we truly need a "for profit" organization to represent us to get our thoughts, ideas and wishes through to the registries? I thought that is what our directors were for. Yes they have ideas of their own and have the right to exercise them but when elected, it is assumed that they will represent the people that elected them and do what they can to make them happen or at least be addressed.

I commend you for forcing your hand so to speak with your letter of intent but where were these intentions for the last year? These are not new concerns. If the last year had been spent working on these we would have already been into the required waiting period one year and would be looking at implementation in 08. Or with enough support and push could have had emergency implementation of some of them.

Your ideas are good, but could have been good within the realms of an existing organization too. I guess I feel a bit let down at this point.

If this is what it takes to get satsfaction then so be it. I am truly sorry if this is what it is going to take to make positive changes and listen to the memberships desires. Just make sure that the members are truly heard, big and small, and that all have equal say whether they have 2 or 200 horses or you will be no different than what we have now.

If this is the intent of this organization than my hat is off to you and I will hold judgement and watch and learn and be the first to apologize for my distrust. If this works, you will have my support. If it does not and you put an honest effort into it, I will thank you. If it is another way to bring the precious dollar to those who already profit the most than I hope you can sleep at night with those intentions.
 

JWC sr.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
11
Location
Santa Fe Texas
Folks I know change in the status quo is often something that takes a while to be able to accept. But I honestly expect this venture to work well for all concerned, foundation group members, large farms, small farms, Mom & Pop with one gelding and the youth that want to be involved.

Do I expect to be able to make it at least a break even venture in the long run, yes I do. I am a much better business man than that, than to get into something that will cost me an endless amount of money and time, which is even more valuble to me than money.

But in the process of trying to make it pay for itself, I also believe we can accomplish what others have not been able to do working within the structures we have all worked with in the past.

It is possible to bring new folks into this industry, it is possible to set up shows that are fair to everyone at them, we can educate the general public and the less informed members of our group and we can improve the position of the miniature horse in the equine industry. We can also have some fun doing all those things. If that is all accomplished then the mini world as we know it will be changed for the better. I hope for the sake of all of us we are sucessful in this undertaking.

I am not even going to address the need for a group such a ours, because I believe you already know my stand on that issue. But I understand your concern and question completely.

May God Bless and Merry Christmas to All, This has been a long day and I am heading home. LOL

:saludando:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

_minihorses4ever_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
Wow, what a long interesting discussion. This is what I love about this forum. We can have "heated" discussions, without it getting really hot in here.
default_smile.png


I know I am just a youth, but I too, have an opinion on this after reading everything. My initial reaction was that they were trying to "replace" AMHA, but I think it has been made pretty clear, that it isn't. I trust facts coming from members such as Al B, Belinda, and John Cherry that this is not something that is going to replace AMHA nor try to hurt it.

I have decided I am excited about this new IAMHA. As a youth, I hope it will help me gain experience without having to think about things such as points. I look foward to seeing what IAMHA has to offer.
default_smile.png


Edited for grammar.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Top