I am extremely upset.......

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I am a bit confused.. although not surprising lately my brain has been just overwhelmed but.. are you upset simply cause you lowered the price and sold the mare and then found out at whatever time after the sale the owner decided to sell a share in the mare?

Is the reason for being upset cause you felt you could(should) have gotten the extra money you agreed to go down on? Or is there more I am missing?

Are you saying the person falsified your transfer papers?Like I said I am confused....

 

[LisaF.]

I have honestly considered calling AMHR ...I have thought about it alot more since the e-mail I received this week.

The way I took the e-mail ...the person I sold the mare too....won't e-mail me ...but, perhaps if I apologize to her I might get a picture of the foal if she foals.

I had try to put the past behind that is why I e-mailed her and told her the mare dripped milk when she foals.

I know I have to put it behind me...and I realize once a horse is sold it is sold...but, I do feel as though I was deceived.

As far as the money goes....if I was only upset over the money I would have excepted the 2500.00 instead of the 2100.00...both offers were made only a few days apart. I chose to sell back to the previous owner at a lower price.

I did wonder if the other farm was the same lady that now co-owns this mare...and that is why I asked the owner when I seen she was up for sale. They both say no...my computer had crashed and I lost alot of information and I no longer had those e-mails so I am not 100% sure.

I co-own horses with my mother....so, what is wrong with telling someone upfront the horse will be co-owned?.....I feel there must be a reason to keep this secret....I just have not figured out what that is.

Also, why should I apologize?...I did apologize for sending her the papers late.

Why did she not e-mail and tell me the mare was mean?.....She only said this after I seen the mare advertised from a different farm...and remember...( both farms have websites)...but, in different states.

At this point I don't know which state she is in. They tell me Ohio....but, the farm in PN is the one advertising her for sale.

I am serious.....they say she is mean and bites, kicks, etc. to horses and people.....but, she has her advertised as ready for the show ring...do people take horses like this into the show ring?...I really don't know because I don't show. I don't think so...but...do they?

 

[LisaF.]

Lisa....I am not sure if I have cleared everything up for you....as far as the paperwork goes.....I know I received checks from one person....and my paperwork was filled out to one person. Then I was told she did not want to tell me the mare was going to be co-owned....I still don't understand why she did not tell me up front.

 

[nootka]

While I don't think this woman dealt with you in a very "nice" way, I guess I would count myself lucky that I got my money. I may kick myself for selling too cheaply anyway, but that is my problem and I think you have to just move on from this one.

I don't think you're "wrong" for feeling badly or upset about it, but I don't think you should pursue this issue any further as it doesn't appear to me that you have any recourse.

I'm sorry you feel slighted and I hope the mare is being cared for properly at least.

Liz M.

 

[luvmycritters]

Well, sold is sold. You have no control over what the new owner of a horse does with it. If it's offered for sale and you feel so strongly about it, buy it back. If you can't, then too bad. I understand your feelings about being mislead and all that, but you have to just let it go. The mare isn't yours anymore, bottom line.

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

You will make your self sick if you keep worrying about this...let it go and move on, life is too short...

Lori

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Lisa....I am not sure if I have cleared everything up for you....as far as the paperwork goes.....I know I received checks from one person....and my paperwork was filled out to one person. Then I was told she did not want to tell me the mare was going to be co-owned....I still don't understand why she did not tell me up front.

Well I guess there is the possiblity that she wasnt aware she was going to sell partnership in this mare when she got her from you. I have bought horses with no intention of co owning and had offers to partner once I bought them. I chose not to simply cause this type of arrangement doesnt work well for me but I surely didnt buy them knowing that would happen.

I think you cant really be upset about this it isnt going to change anything- it is not uncommon for horses to act different in a new home and a new herd who may have been quiet and meek at the bottom of the pecking order can suddenly come into a new herd hooves flying and determined to be the boss mare.

AS far as the pics go yes it would be nice for you to have them but no one is obligated and since you and the buyer have rubbed eachother the wrong way ....

I think honestly at this point you need to let it go for your own sake.

 

[LisaF.]

NO, Lisa....she knew she would be co-owned before the sale...and did NOT tell me.

I appreciate everyone's oppinion...and the ones that realize how I feel.

But, it is hard to put it in the past when she ....told me that the reason she is mean is MY FAULT. This mare did NOT leave my farm MEAN.

She knowingly held back that this mare would be co-owned.

She told a lie that I hung up on her.

This list could go forever.

I had tried REALLY HARD to put this in the past until............the e-mail from her friend this week that told me that maybe I should APOLOGIZE to her...and then basically I might get pictures.

I was ANGRY and let her know it...when she talked to me and acused me of things that DID NOT HAPPEN.

I did APOLOGIZE to her for her late paperwork....but, what else do I have to APOLOGIZE FOR?

I am not the one that did NOT TELL THE TRUTH.....etc.

Basically that was the straw that broke the camels back as they say.

Oh...and forgot to add....she NEVER e-mailed me about the mare being mean...until I was upset when I seen her for sale on someone else's website.

 

[Ashley]

OK,

Yes your right to feel that way. That make things better?

If I browwed money to somebody for a horse your darn right my name better go on the papers at least until I was paid back.

Second I still dont get why the price would be higher if it was a co-owned horse?

 

[ambrose]

Hi everyone!


I am new to the forum. I am also new to the minis having just recently bought some but have had Quarter Horses, having raised, shown and judged.

 


I have been reading the topics for some time.

 


Obviously I have read this topic and could keep quiet no long. I feel the other side needed to be told. The only person that is spreading rumors is the original person posting. The buyer is NOT going around spreading rumors. Not sure what the big problem is but for some reason she is convinced she was lied to and deceived.

 


I know both sides, have read emails from both side. I would have been very offended myself had I received the first email from the seller. It was very rude and accusing.

 


The buyer does not know that I am posting as she does not read the forum.

 


This mare was bought with good intentions. It was a mare she raised from a baby and when she saw her for sale she wanted to buy her back. She DID NOT intent to co-own the mare when she bought her and the other lady who inquired about the mare is only an aquaintance from the shows. Not she is not the co-owner. There was no deceit there.

 


The co owner is NOT the other person who inquired but the seller will NOT believe that. The only reason there is a co-owner is due to finances. The buyer was told that the horse had to be paid for before picked up (which is understandable). Something came up and she did not have all the money and arrangements for pick up had already been made so she borrowed the money from her friend so she could have her paid for. Her friend did not see a need for co-ownership but buyer felt that she wanted to as she didn't know when she could pay her back. The horse is still owned by the original buyer and she is still located at her farm although the seller will NOT believe that either, although it has been explained to her.

 


For some unknown reason the mare has been very aggressive with people. She is stalled every night and is out during the day. She pins her ears and threatens to bite when someone walks by her stall (she has connected at least twice..the owner's husband and one of the kids) and when you go in her stall she turns her rump and threatens to kick. No one has accused anyone of doing anything to the mare. But she is not the same horse. What happened only the horse knows. Maybe it was just the change from a herd situation to being stalled regularly. She is coming around but still cannot be trusted.

 


Whether the seller actually hung up on the buyer is hard to say. Buyer may feel she did, seller may not have realized how she hung up. I know for a fact that the buyer tried contacting the seller over and over concerning the paperwork by phone & email. Either did not get an answer or it was a very short conversation saying the papers would be in the mail the next day. This went on for five months. The horse was paid for in November...picked up in December and delievered. The papers were never recieved until April.

 


It was only after the buyer sent the seller a certified letter with a self-addressed stamped envelope. In my opinion the buyer had every right to be upset about not getting the papers. The papers should have been sent out as soon as the horse was paid for or sent with the horse.

 


The horse did not transfer into co-ownership until April or May. Several months after she was bought.

 


This mare was also supposed to be bred but has not foaled according to when she should have been due by the buyer. But those things happen. The buyer is NOT upset about that. She understands.

 


The buyer said if she had known that the horse was going to be co-owned she would have asked more for her. Why? When buyer bought the horse she did not have intentions of co-owning her. That was explained.

 


Had she asked more the buyer would not have bought her anyway. She had limited funds.

 


The seller never asked for first right of refusal.


Why would you ask someone if they wanted to buy a horse back when they never asked and they were needing to sell the horse when they sold her. She WAS told if she wanted to buy her back she could.

 


Yes, I also believe that an apology should be made for the lies that are being told on the buyer.

 


Perhaps I should not have done this but I just could not sit by. Not a good way to introduce yourself.

 


Maybe I'll post later about myself. But I'm not sure I want to get involved in these kind of topics. This is suppose to be a place to help each other and share not critize and air your dirty laundry.

 

 

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Hi everyone!


I But I'm not sure I want to get involved in these kind of topics. This is suppose to be a place to help each other and share not critize and air your dirty laundry.

 

 


This has been said over and over again and you are correct bottom line there is no need to take sides, there is always 3 sides to every story each persons and then the actual facts

This isnt a place I would choose to air a deal gone wrong or something not happening the way I would like as it always seems to not only hurt the other person but the Original poster as well

:


By the way welcome to the fourm

:

 

[Magic]

Hi everyone!


I But I'm not sure I want to get involved in these kind of topics. This is suppose to be a place to help each other and share not critize and air your dirty laundry.

 

 


This has been said over and over again and you are correct bottom line there is no need to take sides, there is always 3 sides to every story each persons and then the actual facts

This isnt a place I would choose to air a deal gone wrong or something not happening the way I would like as it always seems to not only hurt the other person but the Original poster as well

:


By the way welcome to the fourm

:

 

 


Aint that the truth!

: There was a thread about ME a while back, and as one friend told me "don't play that game" so I just left it alone. Some people will believe it, others won't, and most won't care, lol! but the poster was in a snit and I wasn't going to argue publically about it, I've got way too much to do to get involved in some "he said, she said" bunch of baloney.


I've learned to take most of what I hear about people with a big "grain of salt"-- too many people love to gossip and tell tales on others-- but how many of us are so perfect that we never have misunderstandings with others?


It's best to just let it go, IMO......

 

[nootka]

Well, I for one don't think anyone was being particularly judgmental on the "buyer" but if we were, it was because of what was presented to us.

Everything related to someone is editorialized to a degree. Ask "Dr. House", all people lie and/or stretch the truth/omit truths to slant things in their favor. I don't know the details, but I've been involved in sales that have gone a lot astray from what I had hoped, and I know on both sides there may have been some problems in communications for whatever reason and so it could "look bad" no matter who was relating the story.

I still think the seller should just leave it be as I still don't see where anything was particularly done that she has recourse for also if the mare is being cared for properly, I would certainly just move on no matter how I felt I was treated. Not taking sides, just saying there is likely some lack of communication and/or things done that weren't originally understood in the original deal, but it works both ways. Now that the mare has been sold, I don't know that anyone has the right to say what they do and don't do with the horse, nor should the "should have been" price change after the fact, no matter who buys the horse.

Liz M.

 

[Magnolia_dream]

Sure it may be done but you can still see a picture of the foal. Thats your right i mean you did breed the mare. I think it was horrible of that lady to just put her up for resale. I hate people that see horses as a profit. I mean unless you have too i don't see how anyone could.

 

[LisaF.]

Ambrose...I hate to meet you in this way....but, you really need to get your facts straight.

But....thanks for letting me know...she has forwarded e-mail's to more than one person...( the co-owner). I thought e-mails were private ...and it does show she is hurting my reputation by telling things that are not true. It shows she is spreading rumers...I have NOT gave one person who this farm or farms are. Apparently SHE IS. Wonder how many she has sent to other people?

The mare was ULTRASOUNDED in foal by the Equine Clinic in Springfield, MO not long before she left. Now, I am not a vet...but, I do trust my vet. The owner also has the paperwork showing the information from the vet.

I hope the papers were NOT altered in anyway. I did make copies ...I also have the e-mails of how I was accused of doing things to make this mare mean. Why is the mare being advertised as ready to go in the show ring.....do you take mean horses in the show ring?....I really don't know ...and I really wish someone would tell me.

Ambrose....you do have some of the facts straight ....but, defiently NOT all.

I had tried to put this in the past and told her if the mare was bred that she did leak milk when she foaled. I also asked her if she did not mind would she send me a picture of the foal because I liked to keep pictures of my stallions foals. I could not remember if I had told her the mare leaked milk...or asked her for the pictures.

Again...thanks for letting me know my e-mails to her are not private.....and are being forwarded to others. This can hurt a reputation.

I have printed out alot but, I am not at home....when I get home I need to start contacting some places.

 

[LisaF.]

Oh...Ambrose....I was told I could buy back the mare after ....I realized what was going on...by that time...the new owner tells me ....the same as you...about the kicking and biting...........now...the SAME mare left my farm gentle, easy to catch, clip, etc.........so, why would I buy back a mare that is kicking and biting at horses and people as she says.

Do you know if she receives e-mails from potential buyers........does she tell them she kicks and bites...at horses and PEOPLE...even KIDS?

 

[Minimor]

Lisa keeps asking & no one will reply to the question about whether people show mean horses. So, I will reply to that part here. Yes, I'd have to say that a person may well show a mean horse, or at least one that bites and/or kicks. I'd think it might depend on just how mean the horse is, or what a person even classifies as mean.

There are those that would say a horse is mean if it has a tendency to bite frequently...or if it kicks if a person walks too close. I'd tend to call that "crabby". Mean (to me) would be a little worse than just biting or kicking. I've had some grouchy, crabby, downright witchy mares, but none of them were what I'd term mean--in 40 years of being around horses I haven't come across very many that were truly mean. But, like I said, 'mean' means different things to different people.

As for showing a horse that's truly mean (as I call it)--I sure wouldn't want to. However, a horse that bites or kicks on occasion, yes, it's possible. A horse that bites or kicks when loose in a corral or in its stall won't necessarily bite or kick when it's on halter. If you're showing at halter, it's pretty hard to show a horse that pins its ears & looks crabby when there's a person within 3 or 5 feet of it--that's not the picture the judge wants to see at all. But, if that horse will pay attention & look pleasant...it's quite possible the horse can show & do well.

 

[ambrose]

Lisa keeps asking & no one will reply to the question about whether people show mean horses. So, I will reply to that part here. Yes, I'd have to say that a person may well show a mean horse, or at least one that bites and/or kicks. I'd think it might depend on just how mean the horse is, or what a person even classifies as mean.

There are those that would say a horse is mean if it has a tendency to bite frequently...or if it kicks if a person walks too close. I'd tend to call that "crabby". Mean (to me) would be a little worse than just biting or kicking. I've had some grouchy, crabby, downright witchy mares, but none of them were what I'd term mean--in 40 years of being around horses I haven't come across very many that were truly mean. But, like I said, 'mean' means different things to different people.

As for showing a horse that's truly mean (as I call it)--I sure wouldn't want to. However, a horse that bites or kicks on occasion, yes, it's possible. A horse that bites or kicks when loose in a corral or in its stall won't necessarily bite or kick when it's on halter. If you're showing at halter, it's pretty hard to show a horse that pins its ears & looks crabby when there's a person within 3 or 5 feet of it--that's not the picture the judge wants to see at all. But, if that horse will pay attention & look pleasant...it's quite possible the horse can show & do well.

 

[LisaF.]

Thank you Minimor for answering my question...I really didn't know since I don't show

 

[ambrose]

Lisa,

I really think you need to let this go. You are making way more out of it than it should be or needs to be. There really is no reason for it. If you had not posted on the forum...NO ONE would know what happened except you,the buyer, the co-owner and me. Now everyone on the forum is aware of what you are saying.

The buyer is NOT forwarding emails to anyone except her co-owner and the co-owner allowed me to read them. I am a relative. I believe the co-owner has a right to know what you are saying about her also.

Like I said she isn't even aware of what you are saying to everyone. She doesn't go on the forum. I'm not telling her cause there is no need.

Yes I do know all the facts. No paperwork was altered. Why would she alter the paperwork. What would the reasoning be.

We believe that the mare was ultra sound in foal. There never was a question about that. But that doesn't make her in foal now just because she was in August. You know that anything can happen. You told her she gets huge but is not and hasn't started bagging.

There was no deceiving or lying. Co-ownership did not happen until five months after the horse was sold. You know why. The reason for her being for sale now is so she can pay the co-owner back as her financial situation has not changed. The buyer did not offer the mare back to you. If you remember it was the co-owner.

The discription on the web site does not say she is show ring ready. It say she could go back in the show ring. But the buyer has had her long enough that she could have her show ring ready. Your answer to why would you show a mean horse. As long as she behaves herself while working with her why not. I know alot of so called mean horses that are shown. No one said she was a killer horse.

Yes, we have told people that inquire about her that you have to be careful around her. We turned down a couple offers on her because they had kids and we didn't want to see anyone possibily get hurt.

I think her main problem is that she does not like to be stalled. She is used to being in a herd situation and that is where she is happy. Another reason for her to be for sale so she can hopefully be put in a situation that she likes. That is not possible at the buyers. But really none of this is anyone's business except the owners.

I really don't know why you expect her to keep in contact with you after your emails. Also she did apologized to you also but it must be in those emails that you no longer have access to.

Feel free to contact anyone you feel you need to if you think you must and it will make you feel better. As for your reputation. No one is hurting your reputation other than yourself.

Why not let it go and go on. It's not helping you or anyone to keep dragging this up. If I did not know the whole situation and I was reading this topic I would be very wary of dealing with someone that would post this kind of stuff. I have been in the horse business a very long time and have seen and heard a lot. Try being a judge and hear what people say about you!

As long as you feel you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about. You don't have to answer to anyone but God and he knows the truth.

I suggest you pray about it and ask God to show you what to do and to help you get over this.

Free free to email me personally if you have any other questions or anything.

Ambrose

 

[bluerogue]

Lisa, I've seen what I would call mean horses in the show ring. In one class, the woman was walking up to get her colt's ribbon when he tried to take a chunk out of her butt. He was trying to hurt her. Pretty colt with a very bad attitude. I've seen other horses owned by this woman that weren't real nice to people, too. She lives near me, so I see her at shows fairly often. So, yes, people do show mean horses. And sometimes they do pretty well with them, too.