How long should I wait

[albahurst]

You have gotten some good advice and sounds like you are working hard at getting him fed.

Your situation sounds somewhat familiar to me- as last year our baby was nursing but didn't get enough, I guess, as momma's bag stayed hard. Unfortunately, we lost him at day 4 because he didn't get enough colostrum. We are certainly doing things differently this year and have gotten along great. I would strongly urge you to get an IgG test done asap. Our IgG was only $10.00. Could make a huge difference in the outcome.

Good luck-

Peggy

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well you are not the first to suggest I have him tested. I will be calling my vet today about it.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well just got off the phone to my vet and they are pretty confidant that he has gotten enough. They tell me I should just watch him for signs of deterioration and keep feeding him if he doesn't nurse. The good news is it is not quite 2 hours since his last bottle and he is trying very hard right now to find a nipple. Maybe he is sucking but not getting much at a time. I will go out shortly and check to see if he has had any success. (crossing my fingers he's got the idea finally)

 

[kaykay]

I so feel for you as I have been there just wanting to sleep so bad and RELAX and having a foal that wont cooperate.

It really worries me that your vet wont come do the IGG because if you wait until he starts to fade its many times too late by then. If his IGG is down he will need a plasma transfusion. Also watch for joint ill in the next 3 weeks as these foals seem to get that more easily then foals that nurse right off. I know he will "wake up" and suddenly nurse without help. Its the oddest thing until you see it. Just wish he would hurry!! Sending more good thoughts to you

 

[Riverdance]

I agree with KayKay. The test needs to be done before he fades. Once he starts fading, the cost to save him will be hundreds of dollars.

I lost one this year at 4 days old. He nursed mom right away and was doing fine his first 3 days, then started to fail by the veening of his 3rd daY. We lost the following night, less than 24 hours after he started to fade.

Mom's bag will soften up and feel like perhaps the foal has nursed, but it could also be that mom is making less milk since the damand for it is not there.

 

[Jill]

I'd also recommend the IgG. We had a filly born this year who didn't nurse on her own and the vet was out w/in the first 2-3 hours to tube her. She ended up needing two plasma transfusions, which is the bad news, but the good news is we got agressive early / in time and she's a coming 3mos spit fire now.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I want you all to know how much I appreciate and respect your advice. If I didn't I wouldn't bother asking for it. Hubby and I have talked about having him tested tomorrow if the vet will let us bring him in (if there is a gap in her schedule). The problem is apparently they don't do it in house. They must send the sample out of town to be looked at and it won't even go out until Monday then probably the earliest the results will be available is Tuesday afternoon, and thats being optimistic. It was a problem we dealt with repeatedly when my mare was there being treated for hyperlipemia this spring. And if she'd been a full sized horse they wouldn't have kept her, no place to keep horses at the clinic. She stayed in the loading bay in a makeshift corral Lord sometimes I think I live in Timbuktu with the services we have available.Really by the time any test results are available his condition is likely to show us the answer.

Now for some GOOD news,I have been watching him try to nurse all day and by George it seems he's been more successful than I thought. I just had the thought to feel his little tummy and he is round and full and filling in his bony places already. Last time I tried to milk the mare I could only get 2oz. and he didn't want any but grudgingly took a scant 1oz. from the bottle. He just wasn't hungry.

 

[Miniv]

Since it will take so long for an IGG to be done, if there is ANY doubt about whether he's received enough colostrum, I would just go ahead and have the transfusion done........Just my 2 cents........

 

[Royal Crescent]

how expensive is it for the transfusions, assuming that they stay at home? I have only had my first foal, and he has done very well, but I like to learn for future reference.

 

[backwoodsnanny]

We have never had to have a transfusion done but it is pricey here I believe it is over $500 but then our Harveys bills for tubing several times the 1st day were expensive as well I hate it but it sometimes does come down to $ and cents. It is very hard to make the decision about what to do particularly if they are trying. In our case if the foal is otherwise fine and is making the attempt to live we do try to do what we can. In Helen's case a couple of years ago we werent going to do anything except humanely uthanize because of her being born with no eyes but she did everything a baby should do right on time without intervention so she was allowed to live. In fact her IGG was the highest we have ever had. Reignmaker if you cant have the test done in a timely way it is worthless as was said you will have to watch him closely for joint ill in the next couple of weeks as I do think they are more prone for whatever reason.I pray your baby is doing better today. It is so frustrating. Some good news though our vet said in these compromised foals they are able to absorb a bit longer than a normal foal so the 12 hour window is a bit longer for them though vet said he isnt sure why but has seen them do fine even with minimal collostrum as long as they started latching by 16 hours. He said maybe because everything else is a bit slow the absorbtion window slows down as well. Hoping by now your baby is doing fine.

 

[Jill]

It is for sure not cheap... Now I don't remember how it all broke out, but for Passion's expenses the first few days, it was right around $2,000. But, considering that included a vet out at 2am for an hour or so to tube her, another vet out each of the three mornings following (including the mornng of the tubing), two plasma transfusions (which took a long time as we had to go slow through the IV), 3 IgG tests, ETC., I wasn't unhappy with the bill. For my vet's IgG tests, they just time it right there at the stall or their truck. I think it takes 7 minutes and then you can see the results.

 

[Becky]

I think the cost depends on where you are. I had a premature foal born the end of April and he was in and out of the vet hospital for the first week. About 6 days total. He had two IgG's done there and two plasma transfers done and I think my cost was around $600.

I do know of others in my area that have had plasma transfers done at $300 per transfer.

 

[OldStageMinis]

We also had a Forrest Gump-and had the vet involved as well.

Born fine, very sturdy, very energetic---very umm-challenging for the first 12 hours. He had great sucking refluxes and sucked everywhere and everything except the nipple. The vet had us milk the mare and said they should receive 60 cc of milk every 4-6 hours; or 30 cc every 2-3 hours. We watched him in the camera stall overnight, didn't see him nurse at all, finally at 4:00 am went to give the feeding, and he jumped up and went right over to nurse, like he had been nursing the whole time. I think he was just playing with us. But a happy ending, and since then, no stopping him.

The vet thought maybe a bit hypoxic at birth although on the outside watching the birth I didn't see anything unusual. But it seemed to take 12 hours to wake up and join the world.

I would definitely agree though-get milk into him even if you have to use a syringe until he gets it.

Oh and I forgot-had the vet draw the IGG?, I think that is what they drew to check if he was getting enough, and it was over 2000 when I was syringe feeding for the first 12 hours so it worked.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Now for some GOOD news,I have been watching him try to nurse all day and by George it seems he's been more successful than I thought. I just had the thought to feel his little tummy and he is round and full and filling in his bony places already. Last time I tried to milk the mare I could only get 2oz. and he didn't want any but grudgingly took a scant 1oz. from the bottle. He just wasn't hungry.

I had to laugh at this as that is something we now after delivering - GAWD - literally 100+ foals we check! I won't assume a foal is nursing, but if a foal seem energetic, poops/pees fine, is progressing normally but doesn't seem to be latching on or we don't see nursing we do check their stomach 'roundness' as the little guys tend to nurse when you're not watching! Even under camera unless you're staring at it 24/7 - they tend to do more than we know!

Routinely here we give Foal Response within the first 1-2 hours tops and milk the mare, if it's a maiden or the foal seems iffy about what to do for very long (very long for me is about one hour!) as I want colostrum in that baby! (BTW - I love the Udderly Amazing so worth its money for milking mares!)

This year we had one foal that we found (sneaky mare) that was approximately 2 hours old. He seemed confused on how/where to nurse, so we did our routine 'baby check' and decided to milk the mare to make sure he had colostrum. This is very experienced super mom - then did the 'AH HA!' moment and felt his very round tummy (there was a large amount of meconium as well) and realised he had already eaten, which a quick bag check of the mare confirmed!

Anyway - this isn't trying to talk you out of getting the IgG test done as that is always a good thing to do, especially before a foal starts heading south - then it's bloody expensive to keep them going.

 

[Sue S]

Are you sure he is not nursing when you are not there? I would watch him on camera from house to see if he is nursing. If he isn't than put him up to her like the others said or milk her.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well I haven't heard a thing from my vet yet but in hindsight i think the little beast is eating and maybe was all along (certainly would explain his not weakening at all) He is going into day 5 and I still rarely see him do more than bump around her udder. I know he is eating because he continues to poop, pee and race circles around his Mom. He is a handful . LOL. I tried to slip a halter on him today and it was all I could do to hold on to him and slip it over his nose. He didn't care about the halter but sure hated to be held onto.

 

[Jill]

I remember thinking mine weren't nursing nearly enough but like you saw the energy in them and realized they had to be eating more than I was observing

I'm happy your guy is doing so well

 

[Miniv]

It sure does sound like you're out of the woods!

Waiting and watching for our foals to find the groceries is the hardest part of foaling sometimes!

Of course, we also step in and milk mom and feed too.......BUT you should see me crawling around on the opposite side of mom to BE SURE the kid has truly latched! (Larry has become camera-happy lately, so I'm very relieved that he hasn't snapped some shots of me with my butt in the air, groveling in amniotic fluid-soaked hay-bedding!)

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

LMAO Miniv, that is quite a picture you have put in my mind.

I don't think it helps when a maiden mare is so determined to block you from her new baby that she won't stand unless tied and then even fidgets until baby is at her head. I'm thinking likely he couldn't really nurse while anyone was there because she wouldn't stand still long enough. We have settled on a registered name for him finally as well, he will be Reignmakers Hylee Explosive. His sister (from a mare who is by the same stallion his dam is) is called Reignmakers Playing with Dynamite