Horse Sold as AMHR/AMHA pending

[Deb E]

I purchased a mini at a sale and the sale book listed it as AMHR and AMHA pending. Now I find that no papers were filed with either and it is not even AMHR eligible. The seller has told me that "pending" doesn't mean that the papers were filed or make any warrants as to eligibility. I was able to register AMHA, and I know I can hardship AMHR; but I would like to understand what "pending" means so I don't run into this problem again.

 

[Mona]

I have always interpreted "Papers Pending" to mean they will be forthcoming! WOW, you really should get those papers! I would be VERY upset too if in your situation! Have you contacted the sale management?

 

[Laura]

[SIZE=12pt]To me, as a seller, "pending" means the papers are AT the association already...and for an extra $20 or so I can have them rushed to me to complete the sale. "Eligible" means the buyer need only send in the paperwork I have provided to them or have ready to send. I'm selling a lot of young stock at inexpensive prices right now as "eligible" and am providing the buyers with the appropriate (and complete and correct) paperwork with which they can easily register them

[/SIZE]

 

[ruffian]

"Pending" depends on the seller. When I sell a horse all papers are in order UNLESS it's a weanling and in that case I guarantee that "pending" papers promised will be delivered to the buyer.

Through a sale, it's buyer beware. Your only option is to contact the seller and find out where the papers are. Hopefully they just hadn't sent them in yet. But it's entirely possible that you have purchased an unregistered horse. The good news is that if the sale catalog lists the papers as "pending" you may have a legal leg to stand on to force the sellers to provide papers.

 

[sharpllook]

I run a sale or at least try to from time to time. YOU GOT SCREWED if in fact the catalog stated pending AND NO CORRECTIONS IN THE SALE RING were made. There is a lot going on when a horse walks into a ring. Time one once! 3 to 5 minutes is all it takes to sell.

PENDING means the work is there.......... sounds like ELIGIBLE is the word that should of been used. LOL almost anything is "eligible" if you got the money honey!

If the lowdown is like I read it, you GOT SCREWED. But my opinion is not always everyones.

 

[shalamara minis]

If I tell someone papers are pending-then I mean that I have sent proper paper work in and its on its way. If I have not done paper work yet I would say that the horse is eligible. I agree you got taken. I would be talking to the auction house about the horse being misrepresented.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

If I tell someone papers are pending-then I mean that I have sent proper paper work in and its on its way. If I have not done paper work yet I would say that the horse is eligible. I agree you got taken. I would be talking to the auction house about the horse being misrepresented.

I agree totally! Pending means pending the registry approval!

 

[Minimor]

I agree that "pending" should mean the paperwork is in the registry office or on its way to/from that registry office...meaning that the seller has taken care of the paperwork and buyer can expect to receive the registration papers in due course.

"eligible" means--to me--that the horse is eligible for registration in the specified registry. To me that means seller should provide the completed application with all applicable signatures, stallion report has been filed, parents are permanent registered, so buyer can send in the paperwork, pay the fee, and hassle free get the papers for the horse.

However....be warned that to some people "eligible" means any one of the following:

-horse has AMHR registration papers and is small enough to be hardshipped into AMHA. Yes, horse is AMHA eligible IF buyer is willing and able to pay the $600 or $1200 hardship fee and get that horse to a location where the appropriate officials can inspect the horse.

-horse has no registration papers at all but is small enough to hardship into AMHA as above. From there horse can be registered AMHR based on his AMHA papers....so be prepared to fork out another $200 + or $400+ for AMHR registration

-horse has AMHA papers (or at least a valid application) and from there can be registered AMHR based on the AMHA registration. This last one is the cheapest of the 3 possibilities.

Personally I think in those 3 situations it would be more honest to specify that the horse is "eligible for hardship" into whichever registry.

 

[user 488]

The seller has told me that "pending" doesn't mean that the papers were filed or make any warrants as to eligibility.

Unless the seller is totally ignorant which I doubt, they are

inocchio

inocchio

inocchio

If I tell someone papers are pending-then I mean that I have sent proper paper work in and its on its way. If I have not done paper work yet I would say that the horse is eligible. I agree you got taken. I would be talking to the auction house about the horse being misrepresented.

Totally agree.

 

[gvpalominominis]

The definition of the word "pending" means - "in the course of" or "imminent". In the horse industry it is common knowledge to say registration papers are "pending" with the implied meaning that they have been sent to the appropriate registration office and simply waiting their return.

The definition of "eligible" is - "qualified" or "entitled". I agree with Minimor that if the seller does not even possess the proper paperwork for registration that the term "eligible for hardship" is more appropriate. Otherwise, it could be considered as false and/or misleading advertising.

Obviously however, they had the papers or application for AMHA. But I would also talk to the auction house for clarification on what, if any, information is verified in their catalog and reconsider ever using them again.

 

[Carolyn R]

pending= sent in, waiting arrival

elgible= parents registered with designated registries, owner was too slow to get papers together, you may have a little work ahead of you, parents may need to

be brought perm, you may even have to offer to pay to have this done if you want your foal registered,but with some poking and prodding, it

should be okay

On application= the owner should have known better as to get the affairs in order, or in some places it just simply means don't hold your breath on those there papers, it ain't gonna happen

The above is always my tongue in cheek humor on the matter. Hind sight is 20/20 but I always call the registries to make sure the resulting foal is elgible, the mare will be on the stallions report for the previous year and you will be given a signed application/transfer with the stallion certificate that is filled out and signed. The parents up to date paperwork as well as the stallion report info can all be verified by doing some leg work and calling the registries.

 

[~Amanda~]

[SIZE=12pt]To me, as a seller, "pending" means the papers are AT the association already...and for an extra $20 or so I can have them rushed to me to complete the sale. "Eligible" means the buyer need only send in the paperwork I have provided to them or have ready to send. I'm selling a lot of young stock at inexpensive prices right now as "eligible" and am providing the buyers with the appropriate (and complete and correct) paperwork with which they can easily register them

[/SIZE]

I agree that "pending" should mean the paperwork is in the registry office or on its way to/from that registry office...meaning that the seller has taken care of the paperwork and buyer can expect to receive the registration papers in due course.
"eligible" means--to me--that the horse is eligible for registration in the specified registry. To me that means seller should provide the completed application with all applicable signatures, stallion report has been filed, parents are permanent registered, so buyer can send in the paperwork, pay the fee, and hassle free get the papers for the horse.

However....be warned that to some people "eligible" means any one of the following:

-horse has AMHR registration papers and is small enough to be hardshipped into AMHA. Yes, horse is AMHA eligible IF buyer is willing and able to pay the $600 or $1200 hardship fee and get that horse to a location where the appropriate officials can inspect the horse.

-horse has no registration papers at all but is small enough to hardship into AMHA as above. From there horse can be registered AMHR based on his AMHA papers....so be prepared to fork out another $200 + or $400+ for AMHR registration

-horse has AMHA papers (or at least a valid application) and from there can be registered AMHR based on the AMHA registration. This last one is the cheapest of the 3 possibilities.

Personally I think in those 3 situations it would be more honest to specify that the horse is "eligible for hardship" into whichever registry.

These sound right to me.

 

[sharpllook]

There has been some discussion that the SALE should be held responsible.............. NO NO NO............ A sale can only sell what it is told.

I dont want to run this tread in a totally different direction but.............

This goes to What is the Sellers responsibilities and What is the Buyers responsibility???

A sale can only print what was told to them about "goods" being offered. A seller needs to correct/clarify any wrongly printed material AND A SELLER NEEDS to check these things out BEFORE THEY PURCHASE!

Maybe this was all done, I dont know.

Why is it at a sale, "Buyer beware?" Cant the seller lie at their own house? Cant the buyer ask about the "comments" of PENDING in a Catalog?

To if the horse is going cheap, or below the rest of the sale, MAYBE the other bidders asked?

This is NOT to offend the author of this thread but to simply state that you get what you buy.

5 legs, you bought it.

bad bite, you bought it.

Open/ Bred, yep you bought it.

It is the guarantee of the promise the "seller" not the sale barn that you are trusting.

Basically, A horse will not lie. If the faults were there after the sale, they were there before the sale.

I still say you got screwed if none of this was made aware to the bidding audience.

Sorry but do hope you got a good deal on a nice horse.

 

[Minimor]

Not saying this applies in this particular case, but while we're talking about the terms pending, eligible, etc....remember that if you're buying at an auction sale, be sure to listen carefully to what is said about the horse in the ring. They might read out "eligible for hardshipping" but a buyer that is all excited about the horse in front of them might not be paying close attention and instead hears "eligible for registration" and then after the sale is very disappointed to learn that instead of having to pay $20 or $30 to register their new horse, they're going to have to pay a few hundred $$ to hardship their new horse.

 

[Robin]

Okay- I'm going to jump in here- as the horse that is being discussed was put thru an auction that I managed. First of all, I am dismayed and frustrated because all the facts are never given and people jump to conclusions and accuse wrongdoings without knowing the facts.

The Facts: It is stated very clearly in every auction catalog that I produce - the Conditions of Sale. Deb- Please refer back to this catalog.

#2- All horses are sold AS IS. etc etc.

#3-Every effort has been made to ascertain correct information and to print the same. However we are not responsible for any errors, omissions etc etc.

I suggest all buyers and sellers to read the Conditions of Every Sale very clearly. These are made to protect all parties involved.

I will agree, after going back and reviewing, it was printed in the catalog "AMHA and AMHR pending" on this particular horse. The AMHA paperwork was pending DNA of the dam since it was her first foal. You do have those AMHA papers and you do have the horse in your name.

It was one month later that you e-mailed me "Will you be sending me the transfer papers for her AMHR registration? There was nothing in my folder about her AMHR registration". I replied quickly with the following: "Well- I am trying to figure this out. The stallion is not R registered. So I am not sure why she was listed as pending in AMHR. I am trying to see if the owner of the stallion is planning on registering him R. If so- it isn't a huge deal. If not- then she will have to be hardshipped R. Which still isn't a big deal, it just costs more $. I am working on it. Robin-LKF"

The said stallion was no longer owned by the person who owned the horse at time of breeding- so yet again another situation. I then met in person and discussed the situation with the new owner of this stallion in which I was told - yes they would register him R. So- I thought we had the situation taken care of. I put you (Deb) in touch with the new stallion owner so you knew the status and timing of such and could communicate directly with her.

It was not until 6 months later that you notified me that you still do not have the R papers. Now- I have tried to get with the owner of the stallion who has decided in this economy it may not benefit them to spend the money at this time to do the stallion. She is trying to get his dam's owner to do her so it costs less to do the stallion and down the road it goes. I can not force people to register their horses to correct the mistake in the catalog. Let alone the fact that it clearly states as sale management, we neither assume nor accept responsibilities of misstatements contained in the sale catalog.

I am still working on this situation and will continue to regardless of the attitude and accusations of the above. I have contacted other owners of horses sired by the same stallion to try and combine funds to pay for the stallion to make the cost more reasonable for all parties involved. Needless to say, and since you have not mentioned it here, after being accused of mis-representation by you, we have offered you to return the horse for the full purchase price and credit towards any other horse.

What is odd is this particular horse is extremely nice, has already won several trophies and futurities for the above new owner. It is sad that this situation has been taken to this public forum for scrutiny instead of handled privately and respectfully in a good business nature.

I respect everyone's opinions on this, but again- I think it would be nice to consider all facts may not be here. This was an "AUCTION" with clearly stated Conditions and Releases for all buyers and sellers and sale management. This horse can be registered AMHR. It is not an "unregistered" animal with no value.

If anyone has any other questions or concerns regarding this, I would like for you to e-mail me directly and can discuss further details of the transaction and sale procedures.

Thank you. Robin-LKF

 

[pepperhill]

The seller of the horse should not have used the word "pending" in the sale catalog in reference to the AMHR papers. They should have used "eligible for hardship". Using the word "pending implied the AMHR papers were on the way.

This is in no way the fault or responsibility of the auction house. This is a misrepresentation in wording on the part of the seller, and that is who the dispute should be with. We still have no information as to why the seller used the word pending, and that information might change the situation, however, based on what has been said so far in this forum, the dispute is with the seller only.

It is very nice of Robin to continue to try to help Deb out, but frankly, it isn't her responsibility. Deb needs to be going after the previous owner for misrepresentation. If the previous owner isn't interested in repairing the problem, then there isn't any other recourse than to get an attorney and start legal proceedings in civil court against the previous owner. It may not do any good, depending on what evidence there still is after this long period of time. If Deb didn't keep a copy of the sale catalog, and a record of calls and emails etc., between her and the seller, it probably won't do her any good. Deb might be able to use Robin's efforts to further her cause against the seller, but there is absolutely nothing in this situation that can be used against Robin and the Auction house. It is NOT in Deb's best interest to alienate Robin, the one person that is still actively trying to remedy the situation.

Frankly, all the attorneys fees will probably run about as much as the hardship fee. It is a very bad situation. Deb got shafted by the seller.

 

[Annabellarose]

Robin,

Excellent post! You sound like you are worth your weight in gold. I feel sorry for you, that you are stuck between this "rock" and "hard place". Please do not let it spoil you from doing good deeds and business as usual in the future. If what you say is true, you have gone ABOVE and BEYOND your duty in this situation and you are to be applauded. If the seller provided the sale with this information to print in it's catalog, the seller is at fault on this one and should be doing all of this work, not you.

 

[RedWagon]

It is sad that this situation has been taken to this public forum for scrutiny instead of handled privately and respectfully in a good business nature.

I'm sorry; normally I wouldn't comment, but this really bothered me. The original poster asked what "pending" means in a sale situation. SALE MANAGEMENT is who brought details to this public forum for scrutiny.

Now, that being said, I do believe that the seller, not management, is responsible. It's nice to know that the sales management is trying to help resolve the situation.

 

[Robin]

Let me clarify-

The data entry in the catalog was the mistake. Not seller, not buyer. We had nothing that stated the horse was AMHR pending or eligible from the seller in the sale office. My mother was the owner of the dam and someone else was the owner of the stallion of this said horse at time of conception. So- I am stuck in the middle as I am one of the ones who tries desperately to read thru the catalog and correct any errors. I cannot do all the work alone when we put on these sales, I do depend on other personnel to help do the work. However at the end of the day- it falls on my shoulders.

That is why as soon as we were notified of the situation, I tried to remedy it as quickly as possible. That is also why we offered to give a full credit if she chose to return the horse. The problem is that she has decided to continue to own, care and show this horse during this time in hopes that the new stallion owner would complete the paperwork. This was her choice. We made it very clear it was a typo mistake and unless hardshipping was done or the other owner cooperated, she would not have R papers.

What is very difficult is that I have 2 mares here at this farm owned by Deb and am trying desperately to help everyone involved. This takes time and cooperation. I have been honest, up front, admitted fault by the typo and tried to remedy the problem. Unfortunately my efforts are not much appreciated.

This horse is able to be registered into AMHR if she so wants it to be. She is eligible for a full credit if she feels the horse is not worth what she paid. This is a very good horse, in my opinion worth much more than her original purchase - R papers or not.

Again- I just am dismayed that this has been taken to this public forum and discussed in this fashion when I am trying to handle the situation professionally to the best of my ability.

Respectfully- Robin-LKF

 

[pepperhill]

Ahh, yes. I didn't understand that part. As I said earlier, once we find out the whole story, it might change things.

It is too bad this is posted here. Not the place. Best wishes for resolution to an unfortunate situation.