Hillary or Obama ???

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***I feel Very Very strongly about this, my remarks are Not directed towards Any of the wonderful people here on our forum, or ment to be taken as a personal insult, I am using strong words to make my point, and not to hurt anyone- as as much as I rant about religions and such- It's only because they try to impose their views on Me- I wish all to live and let live, and I am very close with both christians and jews, we all have a wonderful time enjoying the others religious views- So please please note this when you are reading this***

Although I rarely agree with her, Ashley and Bingo have a Very true point-

We are no better then '1984' and other such doomsday novels if we let a fear mongering society direct us to what we can and cannot do because it will mean 'safety'.

I personally am more republican minded fiscally, as my family really is a group of capitalist pigs, (as we fondly say) and I feel that many of the welfare/social programs were ment to be a stop-gap Only after the great depression, not the mess it is now-

However I have Very strong feelings on civil rights

(That are Erroding because we need to be Safe, and 'God' says that people who love each other Must be of this and that type and are therefore ineligable for tax benifits of marrige! Kill me!) ,

and women's right to choose,

(If I see just One more "right to life" plate I will puke- our planet is overpopulated as it is- heck Sterallize Everyone and make them prove they are mentally, fiscally, and physically able to have and care for kids, I see to many in our hospitals having kids and we Pay them to! These kids are set to fail from the get go, or worse!! I Love kids, but it's My body, and with in reasonable limits, My choice, and no Man or pastor etc etc gets to tell me otherwise!)

I also feel that religion has NO place in the Labs or in scientific reserach! There is So much to discover and learn that could help Thousands, and as far as I am concerned, whatever Is out there gave us the brains to figure it out, we Should! If the darn republicans could stop yammering for all the fundies vote because jesus loves that candidate the best, I would take them more seriously.

So in the end- it's really non of the above for me- But I will most likely vote Republican as I feel the fiscal policy weighs in during our current economy, and McCain has shown some leniency towards my personal issues, despite denying it to protect his extreme religious votes-
 
My personal primary concern is the overall SAFETY of our country, our very existence. Then, "how we live as individuals" is secondary, and then, of course "quality of life", but all still just as valid as the next, by all means.
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With all due respect, the issues I believe Ashley is talking about does involve millions of people and the safety they have in this country, in fact in many cases their very existence so while you may see it as a individual thing that is secondary many see it as a daily fight for their lives and anything but secondary!
I was not intending to diminish Ashley's stand, merely stating that our country in itself, and ALL OF US who are of AMERICAN BLOOD and AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP, regardless of any of our walks in life, it is the full intent and desire of our "NATION's" enemies to not relent unless and until we of American Blood and Citizenship no longer exist, a number far greater than those who walk within any specific special interest. I most certainly do not see Ashley's stand as an individual that is secondary, I was merely stating my own preference of priority of process toward an ultimate decision, and by NO MEANS meant for that to dictate a protocal for anyone else. I was only trying to illustrate how "I" personally strive to process my own way of deriving to a decision such as this...as opposed to basing solely on two things in particular, when far MORE is just as major in factoring the dynamics overall.

But, in "my" own understanding, I was just trying to say that if we as AMERICANS no longer exist, then nothing else would matter anyways. Regardless of "somebody/party that tells thousands of people it is not ok to be them and that we are inferior to the rest of the pop", regardless of personal religious and/or spiritual beliefs/convictions, regardless of political partisan stances, regardless of race, regardless of gender, regardless of age, regardless of anything. The rights of NONE of that would be a factor of concern if we AS A WHOLE COUNTRY no longer exist.

Our nation's gravest adversaries have made it blatant, that THAT is their ultimate desire, far beyond the many layers of other issues that are underlying all that's been happening with the war, before, during and since.

It's not anyone in particular based on their race, beliefs, lifestyle or anything else that matters to "US" as a citizen of this country, it's the mere fact we are AMERICANS, and for that, in their hearts, we must ALL die.

And in many ways, they are striving for us to take care of "their" problem ourselves. Just look at the other thread on here by Liz (nootka), the China importing thing, the content of products we purchase, unknowing the full extent of chain reactive events that factor into all that goes with that.

It's not just Walmart that's guilty there either. Just walk into almost ANY store, even at the mall where folks of all financial class levels shop at one time or another. Go to any store there in those malls, Sears, JCPenny, Dillard's, Macy's, any of them....look at the labels of products sold there, the MAJORITY of all products sold in most, if not all stores ANYWHERE, are products of imports from countries that are spending OUR OWN MONEY (from those purchases, low cost or not) toward ways of extreme detriment to our American Society as a WHOLE.

And that's just a drop in the bucket of the over all picture.

Another element of using our own dollars against us, is the CITGO company, owned by a man who made public declarations of his full intent (of every cent of CITGO gas/oil purchased by us, using our own American money), to be used toward nothing short of financially supporting our demise through financially supporting our very adversaries.

And that's just another drop in the bucket. It's these kinds of "drops in the bucket" that are most definately slowly but MOST ASSUREDLY filling that bucket up...and it's US doing it to ourselves, because most American's choose not to broaden their concerns beyond what's most personal to them. An act they most definately are counting on.
 
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It is funny to me that the question was which democrat people were choosing to vote for,,, and now there are people on here trying to validate the president and his cabinet that have been in office for 7 years. I will NEVER believe in them. And I used to think that I would vote for a republican, but now feel that I would not vote for one,,, ever. After the economy,,, Katrina,,, the war,,, people feeling like they can't get married because they are not the right sex,,, who cares if you love each other and have been together for years. And the divorce rate is over 50% for men and women. And not looking at stem cell research because the church says not too. Good lord,,, seperation of church and state.... have they ever heard of that???? How about torture,,, get rid of the Geneva Convention,,, no honor,,, then our troops will get no honor if they are captured. Or how about right of Eminent Domain,,, where the supreme court,,, ( 2 appointed by Bush) voted it is fine if your state can make more from taxes on your property by having a Walmart or such on it,, they can take it from you. Yes they have a hearing, and pay you what they deem fair. Not considering that maybe that land has been in your family for 200 years, it is that they can make money on it. Or how about the outing of a CIA agent because they wanted to scare her husband because he wouldn't say there WMD's in Iraq...

People whine because the taxes might get raised.... how do you think that the country pays for things????? As it is now our deficit is through the roof, not when Clinton was in office. We owe more to other countries that we own in our own country. Yes and China is a big one. So I wouldn't worry about lead in toys,, worry about all those loans that they hold that they could call at any time, that we take out to fund the war. Oh but don't say "raise taxes.

And since when did the Clinton's kill someone??? Geez.
 
It is funny to me that the question was which democrat people were choosing to vote for,,, and now there are people on here trying to validate the president and his cabinet that have been in office for 7 years.
It's just how the thread evolved, as with any thread, no matter the topic. Layers of elements of the overall dynamics of anything.

And since when did the Clinton's kill someone??? Geez.
{Sighs}
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Ok, I can't even let myself begin with this new leg of the thread... so, I'll just go back to dormant, and hope that what little I have tried to share to this point, is at least taken/perceived (and hopefully accepted) with all the love and concern I have in my heart for all who've posted of theirs here as well.
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Jill
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LOVE the icons!

Right on Neil and SWA! You two said it ALL!
 
McCain basically IS a democrat....so no matter who gets in...it will be a democrat. McCain is very liberal. Although my card says "republican", I don't vote based on party, I vote for whomever I feel will be the best. And our choices sure are limited this time around! I feel bad that this is what we are left with!
 
Thank you Neil!!!

As someone who has several family members who have either served or are serving in this war, Bush did not start it. The SOBs who attacked us started it. Bush has done wonders for us and stood up for the American people when we needed a leader most. Would Clinton(both), Gore, or Obama done the same? Nope. Well, maybe eventually because of the American outcry.

Let's remember Hillary as the First Lady. Not exactly who I want running my country. Gore, HA! A 6 yr old could kick his butt! And Obama? His rumored ties to those who hate Americans is enough for me to vote for Hillary! But I'm voting for McCain. We are the most hated country in the world. I want someone with some miltary experience to lead our country.

Something my husband pointed out to me.....the countries that want to see us all dead have no respect for women and Obama's name would be a welcome mat. I'm not willing to take that risk when we've come so far in our war against terror. I do not want a repeat of 9/11, ever. Bush made a statement to all other countries when he sent my friends and brother in law into Iraq; you will not attack us and walk away unscathed.
 
And since when did the Clinton's kill someone??? Geez.

Too bad , Crabby, that people remember the facts as they want or as their party wants. They dont remember that Clinton DID want to go after Al Queda and that Republicans shot down his requests since the whole Lewinsky drama. They called it, QUOTE, Wagging the Dog. Then Bush had 9 months to do something and told his cabinet that Al Queda wasnt a threat to us.

Right now I think I will vote for Obama. I used to like Hill but she is acting like a spoiled little petulant child. Sorry, but 8 (*%&$#^# years of a spoiled petulant child is MORE than enough. I used to like McCain, a lot, but dang if he is not the person he was a few years back. Cant put my finger on it anymore than to say he is swinging the way the wind blows and NOT how he seemed to be.
 
Although my card says "republican", I don't vote based on party, I vote for whomever I feel will be the best. And our choices sure are limited this time around!
I agree. I'd be much more content if there was someone much more conservative running. But McCain will have to do. The Democrats are sick of their choices' antics--so many are voting for McCain. I can't imagine him not winning.

I've taken those surveys to see who matches up to my beliefs and Huckabee would have been my first choice--maybe Mc Cain will pick him for a running mate.
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I'm from Michigan and I voted for McCain in the primary as Obama wasn't on the ballot, thinking McCain would be a republican I could live with. I hope his CORE common sense comes back if he's elected and not Obama. I want a US President I can be PROUD of.
 
And Obama? His rumored ties to those who hate Americans is enough for me to vote for Hillary! But I'm voting for McCain. We are the most hated country in the world. I want someone with some miltary experience to lead our country.

Was Bush or Cheney in the military besides not showing up for national guard duty????

Okayyy why are we the most hated.... maybe because this is what was voted in office. http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/...finger_flip.jpg http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:6rj5s-...bush_finger.jpg

And rumored ties,,, let me see glad that is all you can see, is rumors. GOOD way to listen to someone.

I have military people in my family and I would not want them going over there to fight for oil and to make a few in our government rich.

The people that attacked us on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. So where are we fighting?

I give up.
 
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So long as we're cheering for "our side"...YAY KIM (Crabby Chicken)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I find it nearly unbelievable that people can take eight years of lying and sending our soldiers to fight for such fraudulent purposes and then ask for MORE!!!

Okay...Bush, Cheney and the rest of you... let me bend this way...will this make it easier for you to do what you have been doing to this nation?

And I cannot believe that anyone would take seriously the rumors spread about Barack Obama over his NAME, etc. Are we really that stupid? Give me a break! Question his lack of experience perhaps, but this is pathetic! In this day and age, people don't want to come across as patently racist, so let's make him look like a threat to national security...

We are the world's most hated nation to a huge extent BECAUSE of this current administration. They have managed to destroy our military and National Guard through complete abuse (why would anyone in their right mind sign up now with stop-loss, etc.?) and took them away from where they were truly needed (New Orleans).

Instead of truly supporting the troops currently fighting and the veterans who have given their all in previous conflicts, money is given instead to Blackwater and mercenaries who need not follow our principles.

No...itt is much easier to question the patriotism of those who do not wear flag pins!

Before anyone comes on here and claims that I am unpatriotic, I ask that you look at those who have drug our nation's most deeply held principles through the mud for the sake of money and personal pride. The war in Iraq NEVER was based upon 9/11 or supposed homeland security.

And what has this administration (I would say Bush, but he is a puppet at best) done to capture Osama Bin Laden? NOTHING! What a farce!

So now we should vote in four more years of the same, only now with an aging Commander in Chief with anger management issues?!
 
McCain basically IS a democrat....so no matter who gets in...it will be a democrat. McCain is very liberal. Although my card says "republican", I don't vote based on party, I vote for whomever I feel will be the best. And our choices sure are limited this time around! I feel bad that this is what we are left with!
I agree. Admittedly, McCain was not my first choice. However, he is one that is pretty much "all encompassing", and quite frankly, given the current times, he is precicely what we NEED to lead us ALL as ONE NATION. One that has the broadest diversity of interests at heart that will enable the greatest potential of UNITING our nation at a point in time that is most crucial! As opposed to the usual "us vs. them" by partisan.

Divide and conquer...something our adversaries are COUNTING ON. Hoping we will all be steadfast on all our own special interests most personal to us as individuals, where we are not allowing ourselves to grow in concern for US AS A NATION. Kinda brings to mind the "Frogs in the boiling pot of water" story. The drops of water are filling the bucket up, and the pot is slowly boiling and nobody is even aware or just don't even CARE.

All I know, regardless of "who" or "what" brought our country to where we are in the now, all I know, is I am a mom of a US Marine, and that Marine is MY ONE AND ONLY CHILD, and I want the man in office WHO WILL BRING HIM BACK TO ME! When time is right and SAFEST FOR ALL OF US to do so, and not a moment before, and especially not a moment longer than necessary! He is there by "HIS" choice ENTIRELY, not by anyone elses. He will be where his heart feels it necessary for the sake of ALL OF US and he will stay there however long that need is there WILLINGLY of his OWN accord, as an American who still BELIEVES IN THIS COUNTRY for all it has stood for, past, present and prayerfully it's FUTURE.

Can we not COME TOGETHER here on the homefront JUST THE SAME as all our family members are doing for all of us "over there"?
 
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I too have not yet made a decision, because I have yet to hear a candidate talk out of only one side of his/her mouth.
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Don't change directions on me, I like to watch them follow one path.

My complaint with ALL of them is the same as each year.

They stand up and say they will get this much money to fix this, that much money to fix that, well crap, how much money have they now spent on the election? If you take all candidates, from the beginning, they are well over the Billion Dollar mark spent just to be our president.

How many kids would that feed in this country?Get health care for the working poor? Medicine for the elderly. I think it is a waste of money, and when I hear them talk about how much they are going to save us and help us as president, I say it should start with them! The election, to me, is by far the biggest waste of money.

There should be a limit. $100,000 per candidate,,,,,,,,,,and do it the old fashion way, on foot, door to door and personally meet the folks voting for them, not just standing in front of them addressing them the same as the other 20,000 people in attendance.

Sorry,,,,,,,,coming down.
 
I too have not yet made a decision, because I have yet to hear a candidate talk out of only one side of his/her mouth.
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Don't change directions on me, I like to watch them follow one path.
Carolyn,

At one point, I too would have agreed with this perspective. But, in after thought...MUCH after thought, I have come to realize that we are not a country of "one path". We are of vast diversified walks of life, and no one path would be good enough for us as a WHOLE. We are ONE NATION, but anything beyond that, even the "under God" is by individual CHOICE.

"So Far".
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For the sake of any sort of FUTURE toward that remaining so, we must put our individual differences aside and come together as ONE NATION.

All our families who are fighting side by side "over there" are just as diversified in who they are as individuals as we are here in the home front. Yet, still they are standing as ONE for the overall sake of us ALL.

Whoever leads our nation, at this current point in time, MUST do likewise, and nothing short of that. Our adversaries are seeking to destroy just that. The epitomy of what makes America all that it is... vastly diversied within, yet as ONE, UNITED.
 
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