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Heavy crest on a mini with NORMAL insulin-

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targetsmom

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I just got the test results back today on Princess, who I always suspected was insulin resistant because of the fat deposits on her neck and by her udder. I never bothered to get her tested, and just fed her a fairly low starch diet and kept her off grass. I did have her thyroid tested a long time ago and that came out normal. About three weeks ago her neck sort of blew up - almost overnight - and I put her on the "emergency diet" of no grain, soaked hay and beet pulp plus minerals. Actually I gave her a little Senior Feed because we had a show coming up where she does ALL the performance classes, and I figured she would need some energy. Her neck improved on that diet (along with neck sweating), and she did fine at the show (even won halter under one judge!). Now I find out that her insulin is normal (9.7) so I don't know what to do. I really don't want to keep soaking hay if it isn't needed!

Anyone ever had to deal with fat deposits on a horse that is not overweight or insulin resistant (IR)?

Here is a link to a photo of her from last year when her neck looked better than it does now: http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/targ...how_2007002.jpg

See updates later in the thread (I don't know how to edit the title!). She IS IR....
 
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Alex

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Hmmm Bummer!! I cant think of anything other than its just genetics. Has her neck always been big?

What does your vet say?
 

Cathy_H

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No but have you read about Quiessence? Wonder if it would help reduce the neck.
 

bevann

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I tried Quiessence-didn't work.I just put 2 of my mares on Pergolide since both tested pre-Cushings.We have to re test in 6 weeks to see what blood changes if any there are.Neither mare is fat.1 has fat neck-her sister doesn't-she had laminitis issues.Dam had Cushings and was put down years ago due to blindness and loss of use of hind legs.
 

targetsmom

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Forgot to say she has been on Remission - similar to Quiessence - (Magnesium & Chromium) and I can't really tell if it helps or not.

She is a Flying W Farms Magic Man daughter so her siblings are pretty well known and don't seem to have this issue. I have asked around including the breeder. She did have a fat patch on her crest as a weanling. Vets don't seem to have a clue either as they thought it was likely IR. I did post this question on the Yahoo Cushings forum too. Will let you know if they come up with anything.
 

HGFarm

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You said her insulin was normal. Have they tested T3 and T4 for thyroid deficiency? I have never had a horse tested for insulin deficiency per se....
 

targetsmom

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T3 and T4 were normal - that was a while ago and I would have to look up the actual results, but they were in the normal range. Maybe I should get those rechecked?
 

Fred

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Mary not all vets agree on what is "normal" for T3 and T4. I had to push hard to get answers on mine. I have a friend who is a track vet who is really getting up on these issues and if I can get a hold of her today I will ask her about Princess. We have been doing some work on IR, Cushings and T3, T4 horses to try to catch them before problems arise. One mare right now is doing well and can actually TROT [on her own] and she is so severely foundered you wouldn't believe it. This actually is a "miracle" horse because she has been this way for years and is now standing almost normal sees me coming and runs like heck. She is a LONG way from giving up and her owner gives and does everything for her.
 

JourneysEnd

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Isn't the problem being able to get TSH levels ?

They just don't know what is normal in horses. You know, they don't do much better in people.

I have a QH client horse who has a heavy coat and tests normal for everything.

He doesn't have the crest though.

One of my minis has the crest problem and he finally foundered. We have to basically just keep him off grass.
 
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backwoodsnanny

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I wondered about the T3 T4 as well since my mare with Thyroid issues also had a cresty neck she has been on Thyroid meds for 3years now and looks better than she ever has.
 

HGFarm

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A thyroid imbalance in a horse acts just like people- the levels can change or flucuate. I hope that those with thyroid horses are having blood pulled every six months, to monitor if the meds are enough, too much or still the correct dose. This is what my vet recommends for one.

I worked with a lady who didn't monitor hers unless there was a 'problem' and I would have to ask her when was the last time she had hers checked, and sure enough, she would go in and they would have to adjust the meds. She would have mood swings, and would not feel well but would be fine once the meds were readjusted.
 

bevann

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My mare with the fat creasty neck was on thyroid meds for several months nad it slimmed her down, but she still has the fat neck.She is the 1 who is now on Pergolide.Wait and see what happens with this med.
 

targetsmom

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Well I just got the test results in the mail and of course, they didn't read me everything over the phone. Now I am more confused than ever. Results:

Insulin 9.7 ulU/ml

Ratio 3

Glucose 68

How do they get a ratio of 3 from those numbers? And I thought I read where a ratio <4.5 was bad (IR and risk of founder) so I really want to know what the ratio is and what it means.

Someone on the Yahoo/Cushings forum told me (based on just the insulin reading) that Princess's RISQI score was 0.32 which is technically the high end of compensated IR. I am trying to find out how and where that came from too!

Meanwhile, I just backed out of a volunteer activity for this mare tomorrow, as I really don't want to put her through any more stress. I need to settle on a diet for her!
 

HGFarm

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Call your vet's office back and get them to give you a translation of what all this means, and I am sure they could also give you diet advice. 'Guessing' is not a good way to figure out what all that means and I am sure they would be happy to help you with the test results.
 

targetsmom

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Some kind person on the Cushings forum posted a link to this really neat calculator which translated the numbers and explained them for me!!

http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html

Princess's G:I ratio is 7.01 which is "compensated IR". (< 4.5 is severely IR; >10 is normal)

The RISQI of 0.32 is borderline (>0.32 is normal, <0.32=IR)

Her MIRG= 8.23 which indicates she is Insulin Resistant.

I will be sharing this information and website with both of my vets tomorrow!!! I also spoke at length with a nutritionist at Nutrena and I plan to switch Princess from Nutrena Senior to Lite Balance (11% NSC and 5% alfalfa). We also discussed how important a stable hay supply is, and I think the issue started when last year's second cutting hay was running low and I started using hay from other sources (including a bit of alfalfa). I have enough of the second cutting grass hay left that I have just set it aside for Princess. I plan to use the same supplier this year!

What a learning experience this has been. I see that a lot of people have been reading this thread, so I thought it was worth posting what I learned.
 

Margaret

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I had a mare once with this problem.. Oddly enough it was the exposure to fresh pasture that swelled up her crest.. (Sometimes even overnight) She could even make fat calories out the scrappiest of pastures. As long as I kept her away from pasture, and only gave dry grass hay she would start to maintain her "ideal" body weight. I also could not give her any other suppliment except for the minimum quantity of Purina Born to Win, which is a very good quality Vitimin/Mineral Suppliment.

She finally lost all the fat but it took a while of this type of food control, with hay rationing.
 
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barefoot

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I posted this on another thread but wanted to share it. I think it is a fantastic idea. You can make yours with different size grid so your horses is only getting strands of hay at a time, but a continuous amount of hay 24/7 for sugar levels to stay steady.

I thought this was a wonderful idea and am having my husband build one in a stall.

http://swedishhoofschool.com/Hay_feeder/iframe_Norrhult.htm

On that website there are a few other ideas. This was our favourite and we thought the easiest to try.

Emma
 

HGFarm

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Thank you for posting the results and what you found out- and yes, I would DEFINITELY talk to your vets about that!!! At least now you know and can take action!
 

Amber C

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I wondered about the T3 T4 as well since my mare with Thyroid issues also had a cresty neck she has been on Thyroid meds for 3years now and looks better than she ever has.
Hi all, I'm new here. I'm a Natural Hoof Care farrier and have been getting bombarded by these such issues especially with minis and mini donkeys. So I took on a 36 inch mini for a "project" whom is the first horse I've ever gotten a cresty neck off of. Doing all the right things such as proper diet, exercise, etc. I came across a product I tried that I'm hooked on. It is called Laminyte. I get a 4lb tub for $16.00. I don't have the container in the house but I could go look up more product info if your interested. My vet recommended it. Using this product along with a proper diet, exercise and checking out ok in other areas I got a "mini draft" to look like a mini horse. One with a neck that flowed smoothy through the wither. I have had so much luck with this product myself and some of my clients that I"ve thought I need to become a distributor of this stuff! I am looking into it. Good luck!

Amber
 

targetsmom

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Welcome to the forum!!! More info on Laminyte please (Google never heard of it). What is in it? What is it supposed to do? And how does it work? And of course, where does one get it?
 

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