Have you had a dwarf born on your Farm

[Sue_C.]

but i wanna say who would put the horse down because it had one baby that you didn't like.

Good heaven's...NOBODY said anything about putting the mare or stallion DOWN!! I advocate gelding the stallion, and either spaying the mare, or insuring somehow, that she never breeds again.

I have always disagreed with EVER breeding either mare or stallion again. I don't care if they had produced 50 Super-dooper all-round Champions up till that dwarf was born. All that means to me, is that potentially, ALL THOSE OTHERS may be carrying the dwarf gene as well.

WHEN and IF there is a test developed, I might find I am very wrong...and that will be GOOD thing. But until that day, I will stay with what I BELEIVE; and that is to take BOTH out of the breeding shed. There is NOTHING to my way of thinking...that makes it worth the inherent risk of KNOWINGLY producing more dwarves, (who often-times live a life of suffering) and/or carriers.

I know stallions from more than one large US farm, has been brought into our Provence, and gone on to produce dwarves. These stallions are from farms where the breeders have stated they've had several dwarves, and didn't take the stallion and/or mare out of the breeding shed. So there ya go, those non-dwarf foals have grown into dwarf producing carriers. How nice is THAT? Let me tell you, were I the person that paid the big bucks to bring that stallion into my breeding program, I would be pretty ticked.

 

[susanne]

I suspect that if an overwhelming percentage of miniature horses proved to carry the dwarf gene, we would see a clear split within the miniature horse industry.

On the one side, those who feel that they could not afford the loss and would at least breed positive to negative.

On the other, those who would take drastic steps to eliminate the gene from their herd, gelding, culling and refusing to buy or breed to any animal that did not test negative.

We would then have a subset amongst miniature horses consisting of the double negatives, with bloodlines guarded carefully against the dwarf gene (or at least what has been isolated). Perhaps even a new registry amongst those willing to bite the bullet and begin over again.

I know who would have my business.

 

[LisaF.]

I hope no one things that I would intentianlly breed for a dwarf, etc. I have had a dwarf, so I know the expense, heartache, etc. that goes with having a dwarf.

It did scare me when I read the percentages of miniature horses that " might" carry the dwarf gene.

I was just as I said - thinking out loud and what would we do. The 50% to 75% of miniatures that " may" carry the dwarf gene was a littls scarry to me.

Suzanne, thanks for posting your thoughts about what "may" happen if 50% to 75% of our miniature horses turn out to carry a dwarf gene.

This has been a very interesting and educational poll and thread for me anyway.

 

[Contessa]

I am going to bump this because I don't think you are getting an accurate account of just how many dwarves are out there. I will notify Little Bits forum people (over 250 dwarf owners) of this poll and see what it does to your #'s. I am hoping they will all add to your poll so you can see just how widespread the dwarf problem really is. Most people on this forum don't even breed so that will throw the #'s off. The common practice of sweeping these little ones under the rug has to stop so they can be counted. I now believe that the 50%-75% or even higher numbers are correct for miniatures carrying the dwarf gene. Tony was right about not taking the lines out that produce dwarves because that would pretty much put an end to the American Miniature horse. I had a dwarf born this year out some very well known lines and I was shocked. This little guy will stay with me forever and I will never breed his sire and dam to each other again. For the person who asked, the sire is AMHA/AMHR and the mare is AMHA.

Contessa

 

[shelia]

I don't want to be too optimistic here, but the numbers may be a lot lower than we think. Yes, early on dwarfism became rampant. People actually bred dwarves. Today people really concentrate on conformation and are much more informed than they were back then. There are very few people left who would breed a dwarf today. When someone is found to do this I am sure they get a tongue lashing from people who know better. There number will continue to decline.

People at least now know not to breed the horses together that have produced a dwarf. This does help. Less people are breeding poorly conformed minis. If the theory proves true that each parent must carry at least one copy of the gene and the resulting dwarf must have two copies for it to show then we have been producing many offspring that don't carry it at all.

The poll is nice but cannot give an accurate measurement. I have had zero dwarves, but I have had only one foal born here so far. We need to take into consderation how many foals have been born at a farm and what percentage were dwarves. From what I am seeing, even the people who have large farms with many foals have very few dwarves.

Some of the dwarf carriers have been eliminated by natural selection. It is sad to say, but many mares die while trying to give birth to dwarves. If they do survive many times they are never bred again. When a stallion is not producing quality foals then he is gelded. (or sold) That's where we have to be careful when buying a stallion.

I think most of us are being very careful about who we buy horses from and would not buy from someone we know breeds dwarves or is not honest about there horses.

 

[LisaF.]

I agree with both post above.

Contessa I hope you can get some of them to take the poll. I also think there are many more dwarfs out there then is on the poll.

I can tell you two or three years ago I had a mare priced at $2500.00. She was 29" tall.

Well, I did not know the person that was wanting to buy her and I for one want to know where my minis are going.

This man ( I can't remember his name) was just starting his breeding program. He told me he was buying the best - smallest - horses he could find. Now, keep in mind the mare was nice and had a good pedigree.

I talked to him a little more - HE WAS BREEDING FOR DWARFS - only he wanted GOOD BLOODLINES to go with these dwarfs. Now, I was IN SHOCK!

I politely tried to explain to this man about my own experience with dwarfs and the little knowledge I had about them.

He still wanted my mare - So, I refused to sell her to him. I AM THE ONE that got a tounge lashing. He even told me by law I could not do this...WHAT???? they are MY horses.

Anyway with all of his threats - I would NOT give in to him. He finially left me alone. What scares me is did I " teach him to hide" what he was doing?"

I kept his name - but, my computer crashed and I lost it.

This is when I wish we somehow had a way legally to put names out there.

I immediatly added I can refuse sells to my website.

So, it is still happening out there - I just hope in very small numbers

 

[MiniMaid]

but i wanna say who would put the horse down because it had one baby that you didn't like.

Good heaven's...NOBODY said anything about putting the mare or stallion DOWN!! I advocate gelding the stallion, and either spaying the mare, or insuring somehow, that she never breeds again.

I have always disagreed with EVER breeding either mare or stallion again. I don't care if they had produced 50 Super-dooper all-round Champions up till that dwarf was born. All that means to me, is that potentially, ALL THOSE OTHERS may be carrying the dwarf gene as well.

WHEN and IF there is a test developed, I might find I am very wrong...and that will be GOOD thing. But until that day, I will stay with what I BELEIVE; and that is to take BOTH out of the breeding shed. There is NOTHING to my way of thinking...that makes it worth the inherent risk of KNOWINGLY producing more dwarves, (who often-times live a life of suffering) and/or carriers.

I know stallions from more than one large US farm, has been brought into our Provence, and gone on to produce dwarves. These stallions are from farms where the breeders have stated they've had several dwarves, and didn't take the stallion and/or mare out of the breeding shed. So there ya go, those non-dwarf foals have grown into dwarf producing carriers. How nice is THAT? Let me tell you, were I the person that paid the big bucks to bring that stallion into my breeding program, I would be pretty ticked.

I am sorry but putting the horse down was an option on the poll and 2 people said they would put the horse down sorry

 

[targetsmom]

Am I the only person who is concerned about the number of people who said they bought a bred mare that had a dwarf? That seems a lot higher than the "law of averages" would predict, so it has to make me wonder if the mare had a dwarf foal in the past and was re-bred - perhaps to the same stallion - and then sold. Not saying that is always the case, but it does make me want to see ALL the foals a bred mare has ever produced before I would consider buying her.

 

[Sue_C.]

I am sorry but putting the horse down was an option on the poll and 2 people said they would put the horse down sorry

Dear MiniMaid...I am sorry, I didn`t even SEE that there.

I can only imagine that it was a mistake that someone made, or that they would rather put the horse down than take the chance that it eve be bred again, (in the case of a mare) because perhaps she almost died giving birth to a terribly deformed and difficult to birth dwarf. That is the only possible reason to even dream of putting them down...or perhaps they meant the dwarf itself? I would have one put down myself, if it were trerribly deformed and unable to live with any quality of life at all. I think there are worse things than dying.

 

[MiniMaid]

I am sorry but putting the horse down was an option on the poll and 2 people said they would put the horse down sorry

Dear MiniMaid...I am sorry, I didn`t even SEE that there.

I can only imagine that it was a mistake that someone made, or that they would rather put the horse down than take the chance that it eve be bred again, (in the case of a mare) because perhaps she almost died giving birth to a terribly deformed and difficult to birth dwarf. That is the only possible reason to even dream of putting them down...or perhaps they meant the dwarf itself? I would have one put down myself, if it were trerribly deformed and unable to live with any quality of life at all. I think there are worse things than dying.

ok

 

[LisaF.]

Mini Maid - I had not seen that either.

I am hoping it was a mistake when they entered their choice or meant the dwarf.

Like I have said many times - My vet and I tried everything possible and finally at 8 months old we had to put my dwarf filly down.

Now, I will say - if the two people " meant" they would put the mare down to keep her from ever being bred again. I am 100% against that.

That is where I think the owner needs to step up and keep the mare as a pet only. Or trust the people the mare goes to 100% - Where she would be used for a pet.

I can not even comprehend putting a horse down just because they produced a dwarf. I am not sure a vet would even do that. Of course, I am not naive to think they might take the horse to the vet for them to have her put down..just hopeful I guess.

I am thinking it has to be a mistake and they meant the dwarf, because of all the pain they can experience. I sure HOPE SO!