Have PHAT mares help losing the weight safely?

[jaymie124]

Hey guys! I haven't been on in a long time. Life got in the way.

Anyways. I have two registered minis Ewalts sugar snap AMHA aka Sophie who is cart trained. Around 250# I would guess (will tape her later today)

"Kota" AMHR I can't think of her papered name off the top of my head but it's something like "Lakota salt hawk" she has bookeroo bloodlines I believe. (I had to sell her 2012 after she had a BEAUTIFUL colt due to financial problems and I'm getting her back for Christmas!!!) she is not cart broke just halter and I can hook her to the cart while I drive Sophie.

I can already expect Kota to be super chubby. And Sophie well on the verge of obese tbh.

I am planning on breeding both this spring and I know they need to lose that weight. They both have just been on pasture Sophie on a handful or two of soaked beat pulp when very cold and prarie hay free choice. And I'm not sure about Kota.

What do you reccomened I do to get them "fit" and healthy? I have stalls readily available to limit their hay at night but during the day they're going to have free choice prarie hay pasture and round bale.

So feeding and excersize plan ideas please! Pics attached of Sophie (chestnut) and Kota from 2011.

also a summer pic of Sophie

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Hey Jaymie124,

What are you currently feeding Sophie at the moment. You say she is on the verge of obese ? Is she on pasture grazing all day on top of the soaked beet pulp and free choice hay ?

Apart from the general answer of "work" to get the weight down on your minis, I would look a little closer on what your feeding . Mine are on all day pasture grazing and then yarded at night and being the time of the year here with the grass growing out of control , that is more than enough with the high sugar contents in it.

As a start I would eliminate the beet pulp. If you have good quality pasture and sufficient amounts of it, then not sure they would need a round bale on top of the free choice hay.

Keep us posted with your progress....

Ryan

 

[jaymie124]

Yes she is I only give her pulp when it's way cold. I'm in kansas so were still in winter! Our pasture isn't the best tbh why we have a round bale. I. Also keep big horses in the same pasture and paddock so over all I have 4 large and 1 mini right now (more reason for the bale) the pasture is big enough for everybody but the grass is pretty sad looking. (In summer they (the big horses) get moved to a huge luscious pasture)

I pick up Kota sometime this weekend

also possibly picking up a grade larger pregnant mini.

I will eliminate the best pulp. And I can stall all my minis over night and let them on the pasture during day. (Pasture fine for 2/3 minis but not enough for big horses) what would you reccomend I feed at night? How much excersize should I be giving them a week? Thanks!

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Its hard for me to recommend feeds as I am on the other side of the world and my conditions are very different here.

Personally Id eliminate the all day grazing and limit it to maybe half a day out on the pasture. Provide her with plenty of grass hay while stalled or yarded for the remainder of the day/night.

In regards to exercising , is she being worked at the moment ?

There are a few members on here that are really knowledgeable in regards to feed and may be able to provide you with specific ones that will be available to you.

Hope Ive been some help

 

[Miniv]

Okay this is just me....but during winter months I've never liked "dieting" a horse.

Exercising will of course help, but withholding food when it's cold can be counterproductive, IMO.

 

[jaymie124]

I would prefer not to stall them all day. Just over night. I agree with the withholding of feed. I just was hoping for more of an exersize regimine. My goal is to have them breeding ready by spring. Slimmed down as well. So I was hoping for time frames, excersize plans, etc. Cuz I'm honestly a little clueless. I like to let them be "free range" more than anything. I just would like to help them be at healthy levels.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Have you tried taking her for a good walk each night/morning. I did the same with one of my little ones a few years back. I started with a good twenty minute walk then increased it over a couple of weeks up to an hour. Saying this I was in the middle of summer so I had an abundance of green luscious grass. Don't forget that a good thick winter coat can be deceiving to the eye. I have seen plenty of minis that looked quite big , but under the thick winter coat was a different story.....

There are many on here that exercise in different ways. Some drive , some take their little ones over small jumps , lunging ect.

 

[jaymie124]

Oh I've felt through her coat. Her belly jiggles and I can't honestly feel her ribs at all. She has quite a layer haha. What is the recommended exercise they should be getting? I can walk, lunge, jump, drive her so that's not an issue

 

[paintponylvr]

Your "chestnut" mare doesn't look "on the edge of obese" at all. In fact, in the summer coat pic - she's lacking weight thru her neck and on her top line, to me. The belly could be caused by the type of hay you feed (may need more protein/less stemmy or stalk) or from needing to be wormed or from having what I call a "foal belly". I have two mares that retain the "pregnant look" - even when they aren't pregnant.

I think you want to be careful about reducing what you feed in Kansas during the winter. I spent 10 years living between Denver and Colorado Springs - the weather would be similar. This may not be the time to reduce any feed. I personally keep all my ponies on beet pulp over the winter - even the round ones. Maybe check into getting the beet pulp shreds w/ no molasses instead of not feeding it at all.

Exercise - you can start with walking/trotting in hand (on lead line), graduate to lounging. Throw in some cavaletti work to get the legs moving - but remember if they are really out of shape to start w/ short sessions - 5-10 minutes total & if they are huffing/puffing you have done too much/too fast. Some of mine would be able to start w/ more work right at the start - they are the ones that are more reactive and run/play in the pasture. The ones who are more sedentary (HA - LIKE ME right now) - would need to start out slower w/ shorter time frames. Work you way up until they are working at a trot with some canter work thrown in for up to 30 minutes at a time - google endurance training and you will find some good charts to get them fit - with interval work that can be changed to accommodate in-hand/lounging as well as driving. The mares that I was driving - we started at about 30 minutes of just walking pulling the cart (I'm well over 200 lbs) and as they weren't "huffing and puffing" anymore, we did some trot work interspersed in there. I trace clipped mine - so they didn't sweat in that heavy fur. Ours got fit enuff in the winter months to be able to trot and canter a 2.3 mile circuit pulling me (and sometimes a friend) and the cart both on the edge of the road/on the road and in the fields going up and down some hills in 30 minutes - w/o working up a heavy, foamy sweat. Most of that would be at a working trot, some walking - two sections where they cantered. One section was a 1/4 mile - and they'd canter then I'd say "hey, ho, lets go!" and they learned that that's where we'd gallop. It was on a slight incline, too. When we came down from our gallop we did not stop, but came down to a trot and then to a walk for another 1/4 mile or so - at which point there was a stop sign and a road to cross, so we'd stop and they'd get a breather. Once they were good to go, we'd be off at a walk, crossing the road and if on our way back home - we didn't do any more canter work at all and maybe only a little trot work. They would be almost drive by the time we'd turn into the drive way 1/4 mile further on. I want to say it took about 90 days of getting to this point - driving them 4 days a week. When getting mine fit or when training, I prefer to work them at least 4 days a week - on my work schedules over the years that's worked best for me. If I could, I'd work them 5 days per week.

I'll be working on myself, too, now. I couldn't show a pony at a trot right now w/o wanting to lay down and die! This nasty cold I've had hasn't helped...

 

[paintponylvr]

Had to switch browsers to be able to attach some pics...

These mares spent from April until October be taught to drive - pretty much both single and as a pair at the same time. The first lessons that I took them to the trainer who was instructing me on how to train them for driving were about an hour long. The first ones had very little trotting - neither they nor I were fit enough to do any trotting. We came along together. The mare that had her foal was literally hooked for the first time 15 days before she foaled. The night before she foaled she was walked, trotted and cantered in harness (pulling an ez entry cart and me) for 45 minutes. She foaled in June. She was not rebred that year, but was the spring of 2011 - while being driven and worked. They (the pair) were fit enuff w/ out being top-notch fit... not sure how to explain that... They weren't in shape enough to drive more than a couple of hours at one time while pulling either a lighter ez entry cart single or a heavier farm style cart or wagon as a pair.

Our ponies learn to canter while lounging and also while being circle driven w/ harness on - both single, in pairs and 3 abreast. I can't keep up w/ my shetlands while doing a good working trot in a straight line while ground driving, so they learn to work in circles around me and also doing serpentines while I walk and "trot" a straight line... I haven't attempted cantering serpentines yet.

Because of a lot of different issues in the year of 2014 - our ponies weren't worked much. For me - just taking two out at a time and grooming/harnessing them was a work out! I probably harnessed and ground drove 3 different pairs a total of 2 dozen times. None of the driving times for the ones hooked was over an hour (actually 1 session was about 1.5 hours - driving kids around at a local church). The ground driving sessions for the two 2010 youngsters were about an hour - but the included "down time" to catch MY wind - they were more fit than I was simply because they were running and playing on pasture thruout the day while I currently work a 10 hour a day desk job answering phones/setting appointments.

Also - different types of ground are easier/harder to work on as is pulling carts w/ wide tires, narrow tires or no tires... Less time/slower speed when ground deeper or using a drag w/ no tires/wheels...

1st time as a pair - lesson about 1 hour total - to include harness adjustment, switching from trainer to me, allowing the filly (19 days old) to nurse - going over a few points. Neither mare was huffing or puffing much when done - it was almost 100* out that day - so we were all soaked in sweat by the time we were done. I drink a lot of water here in NC - and often carry not 1 but 2 20oz bottles of water - 1 in each butt pocket of my jeans when I'm wearing them or set close by when I'm wearing shorts (which I finally do around the ponies).

Here are the girls pulling a drag in October... There are no wheels and again I'm well over 200 lbs. This drag is normally used for starting Draft HOrses and the girls had no problems trotting around pulling me w/ pleasure type harness on (no collars or "real" harness yet). Neither mare is pregnant... tho Bit looks a little round!

At this draft horse event - we arrived at 0830ish... This is Bell and Bit (now wearing their "real harness" - just like the big boys) - pulling a disk that i am walking behind. Then, before lunch, they both did about 1 and 1/2 hours of single pony rides (until my girl friend and I wore out!). After lunch, they each pulled an ez entry cart w/ pleasure harness (no pics) for about an hour... w/ narrow tires and in this somewhat deep ground (my truck got stuck in this plowed ground - taking 4 draft horses to pull it to firmer ground. It wasn't wet - just deeply plowed! Turned out - the 4 wheel drive wasn't working right). Bell is pregnant w/ the filly she produced in late March 2012. O, and Bell is 19 yrs old here/ Bit is 20 yrs old.

and here is a pic of them 2 weekends later. On a "dare" - they were hitched to this disk. They pulled it out of the mud where it had been stuck all winter w/o me on it (took a couple of trys, tbh). Then I got into the seat and they pulled it down the drive, out the gate, along the the dirt road (that was very noisy!), along the paved road and into the field. They pulled it all the way down, and this pic was taken on the way back not long before they started wanting to quit. I steered them back out of the field at that point ( a lot of it was deep and very hard for them to work in) and they again pulled it all the way back. Have no idea exactly how far it was - but it wasn't less than a mile total one way! Again, Bell is pregnant w/ her 2012 filly. I won't lie - they were TIRED after this workout - I'd also spent two hours ground driving them around the grounds w/ the big draft horses before that.

 

[paintponylvr]

Can't remember how many times Koalah has been hitched as a pair. She was hitched for the first time single in June of 2011 - this is November. She foaled in April 2011 and is pregnant here w/ her 2012 March filly. Koalah is a mare that always looks pregnant and sometimes looks more preggers when she's not then when she is! Koalah is the darker mare. Bell is the lighter mare. Koalah foaled March 13th 2012 and Bell on March 29th 2012.

Here they make starting the wagon look hard! They are both trace clipped.

Koalah is switched to driving with Bit and does better. Here they are together with Koalah's filly. Both mares are bred for 2013 - Koalah again foaled in April and Bit lost her colt in February 2013 about 6 weeks before due to foal. don't know exactly why, but could be age or some other health issues she is/was having with her eyes. I did take the colt in for a necropsy and it was determined not to be from Rhino and he was on a par for where he should have been in development. The cord was very twisted...

At this time I was working "2 pairs". Bit was pulling double duty - first going out with Koalah and her filly, then going out with Bell and her filly. Our drives were often 1 to 1 1/2 hours, so Bit was working up to 3 hours each time these pairs were worked. Again - this included (w/ the babies, too) working at a trot and canter w/ some gallop thrown in... Folks at the events/drives we went to often offered to "carry" the foals in their wagons - thinking they'd get too tired. Boy were they amazed a couple of times when they were galloping right along w/ the two mares!! Or frisking at a canter/bucking while their dam's were doing a trot done the lanes or thru the fields.

I don't know how many miles this parade actually is. I don't think I ever timed it any of the 4 years so far that we'd participated (3 yrs w/ JROTC/daughter and 1 year w/ ponies - Koalah and Bit pulling the new wagon). This past weekend, I went and watched. From the time the parade started until it was over, was about 1 1/2 hours. The day I drove ponies in 2012 - we spent a lot of time driving before the parade and the girls were a little tired before the parade started. They also were doing some jigging about - this was totally new environment and NOISY w/ firetrucks, ambulances and several bands. We were a long ways away from the trailers - I didn't have anyone available to drive it to the end of the parade route. So we followed the other riders that also had to return back to that start point for horses - it was over an hour of weaving in and out streets at a trot and canter! They had to be dried w/ towels before loading in the cold to be hauled home (their breathing had returned to normal)... They weren't trace clipped and I sure wish they had been!!

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Great photos Paula , you can see it in every photo how much your horses enjoy themselves.

 

[paintponylvr]

And even when they aren't in the best of shape - they can all be driven for short times... I was going to cancel doing this event - and chose to go instead when the weather got better and I needed a break from "home stuff" (see another post under Christmas in Back Porch). These four ponies are all trained to drive - the older mares Bell and Bit have been driving for a little over 4 years now. The youngest is the tiny filly in that first pic from 2010. She started driving both single and as a pair with her dam in 2013 and Koalah again as well.

We were supposed to be there from 11 till 3 pm. I arrived about 1030 - but between unloading, tieing and setting up water; then ground driving the first pair in a new area before hitching it was about 11:30 before I started driving the ponies taking on passengers.

Here's GG and her dam Bell.

and Bit (now 22 yrs old) with Koalah.

I let them know that the ponies were done about 15 minutes before I wanted to quit and gave 2 last rides down the road. Then we went & unhooked/loaded all 4 ponies - took them home and hosed them and the harness off and turned them out in thier pastures before 3 pm. We went out to eat - and got home and everyone was willingto be caught and everyone ate their dinners (not too sore or tired after their works)...

 

[jaymie124]

Sorry I haven't been able to get on! Snowed here I haven't been feeling the best. Been going to bed soon as I get home.

Thank you so much for the pictures of your beautiful ponies! I love the dapples. They look to be well cared for and loving. Love the photos with the mini foal.

It's so true you think eventually something would wear a mini baby out. But nothing ever does! They just go, and go, and go! I will start walking her (Sophie) and I get to bring my Kota home tomorrow

so very very EXCITED!!

I will start with walking and go from there. I hope to at some point have Kota cart trained. She's just a little bit of a brat currently haha!

Your horses are so great to work side by side like that! That takes a lot of disciplene. I'm not sure I would want to drive a pair of minis! I'm worried that they'd get carried away with each other hehe

Although I'm sure with the proper training it's perfectly safe. I just know firsthand how honery and goofy our ponies can be.

Thanks so much for all the advice. I feel like I have a much better understanding on working them now.

I do wonder about trace clips though.

How do you do yours? Do they need blanketed on top of that? I'm Leary on them because I would think that when not working it could make them chilly. I would love to give them (clips) a shot come closer to spring. I did notice in the past how sweaty Sophie would get when the temps started coming back up. When do you normally clip your minis?

I haven't done a lot yet because I seem to go through blades extremely quickly. I oil them, clean them, but it still seems I need a new set for each horse.

I think it's great you take yours to so many events. I hope to be able to do similar activities. And to use Sophie as a therapy pony because she is so calm and gentle I think she would Be perfect. I trust her with any child. I love driving Sophie. But I get a little more of a kick personally when I watch a child laugh an smile when playing with her, leading her, or just braiding her mane. I hope to be able to unite rescued horses and broken people who need rescueing and to be shown the forgiving loving spirits of these sweet balls of fur.

 

[paintponylvr]

Jamie124 - what a wonderful post!!

I have been driving horses in one form or another (mostly ground driving - training prep for actual riding) since I was about 7 yrs old. That makes around ...43 years. I had done very little driving while hooked to a cart and always with someone else who knew how to harness and hook... When I moved to NC, in 1997, I was determined to learn to drive eventually and had a trained driving pony and a work cart/training harness and show cart/show harness "drop into my lap" - but the owner I got them from was not interested in teaching me to hook or drive properly. Our vet clinic "hooked me up" w/ another client who trained SB and Arabs and showed them in driving.

He spent only about 2 weeks showing me how to harness the ponies using the work harness (no breeching) and sulky cart. I had trained our Shetland stallion to ground drive before teaching my children to ride using him, so he was used to having me behind him. During that 2 weeks, we went thru "everything" and I had a driving pony. Driving the mare that I had gotten (Hackney) was like driving an iron jawed freight train and it scared the be-jeebers out of me. In the meantime, I'd gotten some magazines that had horse books for sale and invested in the one by Doris Ganton. I followed those instructions to keep learning how to drive and I also purchased a set of breeching. But children grow - they wanted to ride - and proper harness and driving vehicles as well as hauling out to places we could drive was pricey w/ only 1 working parent at the time. So driving was set aside for years - other than back as a means to start all of our riding ponies... And then children "fly the coop" and I got the chance to start driving again in 2007, then went a little crazy!!! I went to the mid-west and brought back 7 ponies - to become my driving ponies. I then found, by word of mouth, a draft horse trainer only a few miles from me (who'd a thunk it??) - and went out to is place in April 2010 (by then we'd already started several of those ponies driving on our own - using techniques I already knew. Took lessons from him once a week from April to October - he agreed to help with the ponies, including them into the lessons (he thought we were a little crazy wanting to teach them to pull and starting out using my home made, hay string harness - but then he laughed at how it all came together.

Each of our ponies are started single - but as you see - some of the foals have gone along w/ their dams. Some have been allowed to run loose (have had a couple of accidents that way, tho). Then I've moved into driving them as pairs. Have also driven them in some different 3 & 4 abreast configurations. I haven't yet attempted a tandem, unicorn or 4 (or more) up hitch. While any time you are doing more than one pony you should have help (and it's required at some driving venues & events!!), I have managed to learn to harness and hitch pairs & 3 abreast by myself. 4 abreast - I can't do alone at all and can't imagine working them that way by myself right now. Again, I haven't yet attempted a 4 up - but I've been told and shown some tricks that would allow 1 person to work them that way (and ... Bsharp?? I think that's who it is, on this forum, that does). My goal - to have the ponies work the land that supports them - eventually hoping to have them do enough that they can almost "feed themselves", hahahahahah... I'm well on my way and hope to do more here this coming year... We close tomorrow on 21 acres w/ about 7 already fenced for the ponies (maybe a bit more) about 8 - 9 in forest that I don't intend to disturb much, a house and outbuildings...

**********

I didn't clip in CO - but we didn't have ponies that had 4" of hair and you had to figure out how to get them worked.

If I'm going to trace clip, I try to do it in Oct but have gone as late as Christmas or so... in April/May/June - I usually finish out the clip so that they are completely body clipped. The trace clips I've done weren't done on show ponies (at least not Shetlands for Shetland shows). Trace clipping was a way to get more accomplished while not having a barn or blankets. I DID have access to areas where ponies could be put if there was a stretch of bad weather.

Falling asleep. Will finish this tomorrow.

 

[paintponylvr]

Trace clipping - I was exposed to many styles of clipping while riding Huntseat and dressage - again starting when I was very young and in different states and while with different barns/instructors. Plus had many magazines and periodicals that our family subscribed to even when we were "horse less". The 10 years that we owned horses in CO - all the clipping we did was to "clean up" pretty "clean" horses to begin with. Almost all of our horses had "tight" whiskers and "feathers" - meaning there wasn't much hair AT ALL! Paints and grade working QH types - ridden both western and Huntseat, jumped, speed evented and cut/team penned & roped off of - sometimes at shows, sometimes at clinics, with 4H, a handful of times on real ranches. The clippers we used were basic Osters and 10 blades.

1997 (again) - ponies moved from MT to NC w/ 3 Shetlands that had winter hair. The temps during the blizzard we were caught in on the MT/ND border was -70* below 0 with windchill and the horses/ponies stayed in 2 trailers in the parking lot of the hotel we lived in for 5 days. We were snowed into the parking lot. The O of the Hotel (brand new) freaked out when I asked about unloading the horses in the parking lot to clean out the trailers. So we didn't. I cleaned the best I could around 1 Shetland stallion, 2 small horse mares (13.3 & 14.2 hh) and 1 yearling horse filly (would mature @ 15 hh) in the 4 horse stock trailer & the 2 shetlands in the single axle, Ford Courier Truck Box that was turned into a stock trailer... When we got moving the weather seemed to follow us - turning to rain and flooding in MN and IL. In KY - it turned HOT. We arrived in NC to 110* before mid-April!! We were leasing pasture and an old tobacco barn from a local horse vet - she took one look at our stock and recommended that as soon as we were moved into our house and settled that we either body clip ourselves or find someone who could do it for us - sooner is better as she worried about heat stroke for all of them! We got the dog clipped - but never did get the ponies clipped that year. Couldn't afford the proper clippers, and sure couldn't afford to have someone else do 6 head. Instead, the 7 yr old, 4 yr & 3 yr old daughters and I spent hours at the pony property (8 miles from our home in a development) daily - DESHEDDING. By June, everyone was slick and shiny!

In 98, we got clippers and come spring - I body clipped several. The rest - we just did BP, jaws, coronet bands. From then on, I would keep those areas "clean" thuout the year. Researched what I could do w/o a barn and decided on trace clipping... I don't remember what year we started doing them regularly - but want to say it was the winter of 2000 - on any that we were actually working. Made life easier - shorter clean up and cool down periods when the girls were now in school and we only had a short time of daylight when we arrived in the after noons to groom/work ponies before it got dark and "cold" (not the same as in the west/nw!). Didn't have lights nor a real barn - ponies out on pasture 24/7 so trace clipping worked wonders!

Did a lot of clipping for many years - used Oster A5's and Laube's w/ mostly size 10 blades. YES, 1 pony clipped during the winter (after grooming and vacuum - not bathing) means you gothru the blades (long hair & sand hard on clippers and blades). After the first 2 winters, I always kept several blades around for when we clipped - dumping the hot blades into the clipper cleaner/oil while using the next set. Usually clipped 1 horse per day - all me and the clippers could handle. OR I'd "mark" the ponies and then work on them thruout the week while the girls in school during the day. I would lead the ponies up to the vet clinic when no emergencies and use the electric & stocks. To mark the ponies, I used duct tape to lay out the area and clipped along the duct tape before pulling it off. I usually used a "high trace clip" - sometimes going way too high as I tried to clean up and even out my uneven clip jobs, LOL.

OK gotta get ready to go - closing on our property in 3 hours!!

 

[paintponylvr]

Before I run again - THANX RYAN!!!