Handlers during the class?

[Zipper]

I hope if I am showing and doing something like that someone tells me what it looks like so I can become more professional looking.

I love watching the people that show their own horses and give them credit and when they win that is awesome compared to a pro handler.

I am not passing judgement just saying what I prefer.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

It also depends if the chain is live or captured. Live chain is where the chain actually touches underneath. A captured chain is when you buckle you lead to the chain and the end, thus chain does not touch horse. And sometimes with a captured chain you use more pressure since the horse is never touched with the chain.

 

[susanne]

An occasional shank may be called for with a misbehaving or distracted horse, but the continual jerking/shanking simply becomes "noise" that the horse will then ignore. While some may choose this route, the trainers I admire are those who handle their horses with respect and dignity -- and also happen to be VERY successful.

When I was showing Mingus, he had a tendency to act up in the arena. Several people told me I needed to find a trainer who would shape him up. One person said "You won't want to be there when they do it." I knew that if this was the only answer, we would stay home, as we would NOT do that. We had the great fortune to work with Portia Kalinka, who knew my feelings and said there was no reason to use such methods. She showed me that being insistent, persistent and consistent was what he needed, and it worked.

I realize I'm an idealist rather than a pragmatist, but I believe that no ribbon is justification for treating any animal that way.

 

[SampleMM]

I sure hope we haven't alienated the AMHR amateurs! This thread is exactly why I hate it when a show is streamed live! Everyone is a critic!!!!

 

[Tremor]

I sure hope we haven't alienated the AMHR amateurs! This thread is exactly why I hate it when a show is streamed live! Everyone is a critic!!!!

I gotta ask, what is the ametuer classes and membership? I don't understand it.

EDIT: I always thought it was meant beginners, but I have a feeling it means the pros?

 

[Minimor]

Amateurs are the non-pro members. They aren't necessarily beginners, some are very experienced and the only difference between them and the pros is they don't get paid for their horse activities.

 

[susanne]

Amateur means nonprofessional. They are not necessarily beginners, and in fact, may be more experienced and successful than the professional trainers, but they do not receive money for what they do, and they either own or have leased the horses they exhibit.

An amateur may show in either amateur or open classes, but professionals can only show in open.

Unless someone is doing something for which they are ashamed, there is no reason to be offended by this thread.

 

[Minimor]

And seriously--do you not think that people in the stands at shows all over the country, Natuonals included, don't say exactly the same things about what they see in the show ring??

I have never believed that people should comment on only the good things and pretend that the other things do not exist.

 

[andi]

I greatly appreciate Susanne's recognition of how I try to handle my horses. Thanks so much for noticing what I work very hard to achieve.

One reason I really appreciate it is because I have been on the other side also, having had people talk about me in a negative way, having not had all the information and deciding to just pass judgment. The time that happened was actually during one of those online auction which I volunteered to assist with because so many owners were to nervous to present their own horses. In this particular circumstance a few people became quite vocal about my handling of a horse, complaining about me snapping the horse. I think sometimes people feel overly entitled to voice their opinions in these situations because they are "standing up" for a defenseless animal, they forgot they are also insulting someone without getting the facts. For example, in my case, the horse was a severely neglected yearling colt, who was extremely study and untrained. In addition his owners felt it was important that he show during the sale, so he was not fed that day. Furthermore, they decided he would be more impressive if he raised his tail, so in goes the ginger. Oh, and let's protect the stage, so, no joking, a blue tarp was duck taped underneath the shavings! So now, we have an aggressive, hungry, barely halter broke stallion, with his but on fire, slipping on a tarp, coming way to close to the edge of the stage that is 3 feet of the ground, as a loud speaker is booming just feet from his head! So yes, for 2 minutes I pretty much had to snap him back from running through me off the stage. When I did get off, and his owner had just dumped this poor neglected colt for the single bid he received, I overheard her telling someone, "he would have sold for a lot more if he showed better, which he would have done if that horrible handler hadn't kept shanking him!".

Now I understand these circumstances may sound a bit extreme, and most would assume that this situation is unusual, but the point is, unless we ask and find out, then you have no way of knowing. I understand no one is naming names, but I promise, every single amateur that had a tough horse and had to jerk the lead rope, and is now reading this, is going to assume it is about them and feel like crap! They aren't going to want to single themselves out as I have as the "guilty party" and defend themselves to people who have already made up their minds. Having known that feeling before, I feel for them.

 

[madmax]

I believe that most of us mentioning the overdone lead rope snatching are not talking about a horse needing correction, which does happen as we all know, but about a horse standing quietly and doing nothing wrong. It would be jerked up to be 'on' instead of using another method. A little jiggle of the chain wakes them up as well.

Perhaps amateur is being confused with 'novice' by some.

By the way, plenty of the pros were doing the chicken dance even if doing it a little more reserved way. I still do not know why they are bending their knees and what it achieves. The hand is what the horse is reacting to or a quiet click of the tongue and the wonderful cellophane. When I was watching some halter classes and admiring a handler showing beautifully standing erect and the horse was showing well , all of a sudden when the judge appeared - well there went the knee bends and I don't know why unless they think it has to be done. I would want someone to tell me it ruins my profile so that I could improve. Being involved with horses is an ongoing learning experience and I always appreciated friendly observations to help me improve. When I began showing halter, I saw myself on a video showing a stallion that was being studdy, it made me cringe to watch it because I wasn't handling it right and I had to learn to do better. Every time since then that I showed, I worked at it and tried to improve so that I could beat the big boys - and yes I did.

Okay, off the soap box.

I am sorry Andi , that someone was so rude and mean to you, and sorry about that poor little guy, I know some don't feed or water at shows or auctions and it makes me sad.

 

[Minimor]

Actually bending at the knee is the one movement I do when showing.

chicken dance moves of twisting body, arms and such no, but bending the knees actually does, for some reason, get better "hook" to the horses neck. I have been told that I look "regal" when I show (I was surprised!) soci guess the bent knees don't ruin the effect. Anyway--I have tried just moving the hand and it does not get the same effect as if I keep my hand still and bend my knees--not sure why but time after time it works better. It is not that the horses are trained for that motion--because I can take a complete greenie out and set him up and it still works best. So, I don't say anything about anyone bending their knees--it is all the other gyrations that are so pointless--and you can see it is pointless when the horses show no reaction at all to the movements....as many do not.

And yes, the lead jerking I saw was in most cases not because the horse was being strong or unruly--it was simply posing, and often not badly...the horse wasn't falling asleep....the handler (and again the pros were bad for this, it was the pro's that I noticed most often doing it) would just as a matter of course jerk the lead. Honestly, it looked like a routine for some.

andi--that is sad that someone sends a colt in under those circumstances. Not much you can do then but what you did--or simply refuse to handle the horse.

Years ago there was an Arabian handler showing in North Dakota. He would set the horse up and then bend his body backward---waaaaay backward, the guy would have excelled in the limbo contests!!!---and the horse would follow his torso with its neck. He went backward and the horse really stretched its neck out and hooked it down. Worked great for the guy--but not something I could do. I'm not so flexible!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The first time I saw the chicken dance I laughed so much I actually fell off my chair and had to be picked up and banged on the back- I had never seen anything so ridiculous in my life! Now of course we have people imitating it, although not quite as extreme, at lots of shows, and the chain snapping makes me want to ban the use of chains altogether (I do not use them, and my stallions behave themselves rather more than adequately)

I ask my animals to stand up and pay attention for a given length of time, with a baby I may use the "whatever the flooring is" trickled through my hands but the horses stand and give ears because they are trained to do so, and they are rewarded on release, as I used to with my dogs, not constantly "baited"

I have yet to see a horse pay any attention to the chicken dance so I am left wondering why exactly people do it.....

 

[aliasmel]

The firs time my partner encounted this he laughed so hard he almost fell off his chair. It was at a state show and he watched the whole time as the person twisted, turned, took their hat off and trickled grass thru their fingers. He thought it was the most amusing thing he had seen and told me to never, ever do it.

 

[BSharpRanch]

After showing a yearling QH at an open show sponsored by an Arabian club, I may have your answer. 30 years ago showing Arabs and showing QHs was as diffrent as night and day. I stood there with my filly who was standing quiet and still, square and ears forward. The other 13 entries were dancing and rearing and acting up. Their handlers had their little whips and were doing all sorts of flamboyant justures. I could see my mom on the rail with a look of entertained amusement on her face. I had the judge aproach me and say, and I quote, "will you show your horse please?!". I looked at him, looked at the wild bunch of yearlings around me, looked at my horse who was standing square, still and at attention, looked at him and said, "last time I looked, this is how you show a quarter horse at halter.". Needless to say we didn't place.

So just maybe, the judges are so use to seeing this behaviour that it is considered part of "showing your halter horse". I prefer the way 30 years ago that QH showed at halter, square, quiet and alert. Not wild eyed, fidgeting and stretched out.

JMTCW

 

[MiniNHF]

Honestly I think I would say the exact same thing lol

After showing a yearling QH at an open show sponsored by an Arabian club, I may have your answer. 30 years ago showing Arabs and showing QHs was as diffrent as night and day. I stood there with my filly who was standing quiet and still, square and ears forward. The other 13 entries were dancing and rearing and acting up. Their handlers had their little whips and were doing all sorts of flamboyant justures. I could see my mom on the rail with a look of entertained amusement on her face. I had the judge aproach me and say, and I quote, "will you show your horse please?!". I looked at him, looked at the wild bunch of yearlings around me, looked at my horse who was standing square, still and at attention, looked at him and said, "last time I looked, this is how you show a quarter horse at halter.". Needless to say we didn't place.

So just maybe, the judges are so use to seeing this behaviour that it is considered part of "showing your halter horse". I prefer the way 30 years ago that QH showed at halter, square, quiet and alert. Not wild eyed, fidgeting and stretched out.

JMTCW

 

[susanne]

.

I have to add to show techniques I admire:

Those who teach their halter horses to set up without the handler hand-placing their feet. Even I, a rank amateur, can train a horse to do this -- Mingus learned it so well that he sets up anytime a visitor pulls into our driveway.

I find the hand-positioning especially awkward when it is done right in front of the judge. It also seems when the horse is hand-positioned instead of being trained to do it on their own, they don't hold that stance, but instead move immediately.

 

[ohmt]

One of the best trainers out there, Josh Tibbs-just watch him sometime. He bring the horses in, they pretty much set themselves up, and he stand so far back away from them that he couldn't do that silly jig stuff anyway. They stand there alert with their attention on him the whole time and he barely has to do anything. It's amazing to watch! With a couple of the new horses on his show string he got down to their level and was right there, but still barely did anything. They didn't have the "whoa" down completely, but they knew to watch him. And they are all super sweet horses-you know he takes good care of them.