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Got my horses color testing results back!!

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hairicane

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Dont know if u will remember my post of my mare Charade that I thought was probably a silver dapple pinto. Everyone was pretty much divided as to what color she was. Got guesses from liver chestnut to silver to faded black. Here she is pictured just after shedding out her winter coat so this is her true unbleached color.



and here she is with her new filly sired by a palomino pinto. The filly has 2 blue eyes



close up of the filly




Anyway based on these results it looks like both these horses are BLACK based!!! And as I understand it, neither carries agouti, bay. So once again color experts does that mean that Charade is in fact a silver dapple or is she just a funky black? Charades parents are listed as a blk pinto and a solid black.

And what about this filly??? The filly is a DILUTE, her sire is a palomino pinto. Is she a silver dapple smokey black or what?

The results as I got them from the lab are below---

Horse Name Breed Red Factor Agouti

Cream Dilution

Hairicane Charade/Champ Filly Miniature Horse Ee aa nCr

Hidden Meadows Charade Miniature Horse - Ee aa -

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Result Guide:

Red Factor

ee Only the red factor detected. The horse tested homozygous for red pigment. The basic color is chestnut or sorrel, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse could be red dun, palomino, cremello, gray or white.

Ee Both black and red factors detected. The horse tested heterozygous for the red factor. It can transmit either E or e to its offspring. The basic color of the horse will be black, bay or brown, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse may be buckskin, zebra dun, grullo, perlino, gray, or white.

EE Only the black factor detected. The horse tested homozygous for black pigment. It cannot have red foals regardless of the color of the mate. The basic color of the horse will be black, bay or brown, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse may be buckskin, zebra dun, grullo, perlino, gray or white.

Agouti

aa Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. The basic color of the horse will be black in the absence of other modifying genes.

Aa Horse tested Heterozygous for Agouti. Black pigment distributed in point pattern. The basic color of the horse will be bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.

AA Only dominant allele detected. Black pigment distributed in point pattern. The basic color of the horse will be bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.

Cream Dilution

CrCr Double dilute. Horse tested Homozygous for Cream Dilution (Two copies of the Cream allele). Chestnut is diluted to cremello; bay is diluted to perlino and black is diluted to smoky cream. These colors can be further modified by the actions of other genes.

nCr Dilute. Horse tested Heterozygous for Cream Dilution (One copy of the Cream allele). Chestnut is diluted to palomino; bay is diluted to buckskin and black is diluted to smoky black. These colors can be further modified by the actions of other genes.

nn Non-dilute. Horse tested negative for Cream Dilution. Basic colors are chestnut, bay, black or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.

Tobiano

TT Only Tobiano allele detected. The horse tested homozygous for Tobiano.

nT Both Tobiano and non-Tobiano alleles detected. The horse is Tobiano heterozygous.

nn No Tobiano was detected.
 

Meavey

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Didn´t you test the mare for cream?

She looks silver or smokey to me, or even silver-smokey.
 

Lauralee

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I've had mares that color and they were smokey black.

As for the filly, I am stumped. She is beautiful though. I'm surprised that the filly is not red based. She appears to be palomino pinto just from the pictures....but hard to say without seeing in person. So it is odd that her genetics show the filly as black based.
 

Magic

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hairicane said:
Horse Name Breed  Red Factor Agouti Cream Dilution

Hairicane Charade/Champ Filly Miniature Horse  Ee aa nCr

Hidden Meadows Charade Miniature Horse - Ee aa -

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419599[/snapback]


Well, according to the test results, if I am reading this right, the filly does have a creme gene, and since she is black-based but has no agouti gene, that does make her smoky black, doesn't it? Very interesting!
 

Bluerocket

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Well -- the mare looks to me to be like my chocolate silver (not a silver dapple as he has no dapples and his mane is more yellowed than flaxen). He is black based with the silver gene on him.

The filly would then be a silver, cream, black based horse... a silver smokey black?

Question: where the mare's mane is dark (as opposed to white).. if you flip it up.. is the neck hair more dark greyish in tinge than the hair that is exposed to the sun? and are the mane hairs that are not exposed to the sun the same color as this hidden body hair under the mane? If so.. she would be similar to my chocolate silver gelding.

See this thread and the photo of TINKERBELL near the bottom of the first page for a photo of a chocolate silver:

http://minihorse.ipbhost.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=37157

Is there a test for silver???

Obviously I am GUESSING here.. and NOT an expert.

Both of them are beautiful however.. whatever the colors.

JJ
 
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hairicane

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No I didnt test the dam for cream. Maybe I should call and see if they can still test her. I didnt realize smokey blacks could be that color but I have 3 different pinto mares all that same color. And I am happy that she is not just red based. Gives us more options.

The filly is even lighter than she was a t birth and certainly looks like she could be palomino now but her ears are rimmed in black thats why I was pretty sure she wasnt.
 

hairicane

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Bluerocket said:
The filly would then be a silver, cream, black based horse... a silver smokey black?
Question: where the mare's mane is dark (as opposed to white).. if you flip it up.. is the neck hair more dark greyish in tinge than the hair that is exposed to the sun?  and are the mane hairs that are not exposed to the sun the same color as this hidden body hair under the mane?  If so.. she would be similar to my chocolate silver gelding.
Yes I guess thats what the filly is,LOL, Im trying to learn more too.

And no the mares mane is not really gray looking anywhere. But I think we are talking about the same thing. As I understand it silver dapple is a general term for a horse that carries the silver gene not the graying gene. So they dont all have to have dapples and can be a wide range of colors/shades. I have about 5-6 silver dapples and they are all different shades, some have dapples some dont. So I might describe your boy as a silver dapple and u describe him as a chocolate silver but we are talking about the same thing. In non mini horse terms my mare Charade for sure looks chocolate to me too. Now I know thats black with SOME modifiers!
 

Magic

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hairicane said:
The filly is even lighter than she was a t birth and certainly looks like she could be palomino now but her ears are rimmed in black thats why I was pretty sure she wasnt.
419876[/snapback]

Oh, well then maybe the filly could be a silver buckskin?? Aren't these color options fun?
Can you post a more recent pic of the filly?
 

hairicane

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Magic said:
hairicane said:
The filly is even lighter than she was a t birth and certainly looks like she could be palomino now but her ears are rimmed in black thats why I was pretty sure she wasnt.
419876[/snapback]

Oh, well then maybe the filly could be a silver buckskin?? Aren't these color options fun?
Can you post a more recent pic of the filly?

419892[/snapback]

I would have thought buckskin was possible for the filly so I did the agouti test on both mom and daughter and both are neg for it!! So they cant be any kind of bay.
 

wishful

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Wow Jennifer, what a great deal you got. I always called her chocolate. I always thought she was beautiful and had the most beautiful movement, I'm sure the filly will move just as fluintly. I tried for the longest time to sell Charade and lady so they could stay together now everyone gets to see what they missed out on. Arent you happy you didnt pass them up. Charade Looks great, let me know when Lady foals. JAmie
 

hairicane

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wishful said:
I tried for the longest time to sell Charade and lady so they could stay together now everyone gets to see what they missed out on. Arent you happy you didnt pass them up. Charade Looks great, let me know when Lady foals. JAmie

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Yes Jamie, Im very happy I got them from u! I never saw them listed for sale till your ad that I bought them from and I snapped them up pretty fast. They were 2 lovely mares and even though I wasnt sure what color they were with their good looks and excellent pedigrees I had to get them. I didnt have half sister Lady color tested but since she is identical in color to Charade she is another black based pinto, lucky me!!!!! Cant wait to see what Lady has.
 

rabbitsfizz

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OK, based on the facts as we are told them, rather than waste time arguing, the filly, could she have Dun?? Could the sire be Dunalino?? This would open up a whole new window of colours, as she looks Smoky Silver Grulla but can only be if there is Dun. That being discarded I would go for Smoky Silver, with the Cream actually expressing on the Black base, as it can, and affecting the colour. It just goes to show how misleading Phenotype can be. The mare is not typical of any colour, and does not really look Silver Bay to me, her mane is not light enough and the tail is affected by the pattern. So, do you think she is sun bleached as well??
Might as well really confuse the issue.
 

wishful

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rabbitsfizz,i dont know what a dunalino
is but the sire did have a dark line down his back and almost always passed it on to his offspring.
 

rabbitsfizz

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That's exactly what a Dunalino is!!! A Palomino with the Dun factor, causing a dorsal stripe. So, I guess the foal is Silver Grulla, sorry can't remember if you said she was or was not a dilute-I'm in the middle of a migraine so not thinking straight!!
 

Lauralee

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So then does the filly have any dorsal stripe down her back on the areas that are not white from pinto?
 

hairicane

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Lauralee said:
So then does the filly have any dorsal stripe down her back on the areas that are not white from pinto?
420617[/snapback]

Yes the filly has a stripe on her back where she has color! And wishful owned her sire, who I never saw in person, so she is giving us some great info about Champ the sire. I think this is exciting but even with genetic testing we still have to be detectives to figure out our horses true color. Here is the fillys stripe.

 

hairicane

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rabbitsfizz said:
the filly, could she have Dun??  Could the sire be Dunalino??  This would open up a whole new window of colours, as she looks Smoky Silver Grulla but can only be if there is Dun.  That being discarded I would go for Smoky Silver, with the Cream actually expressing on the Black base, as it can, and affecting the colour.  It just goes to show how misleading Phenotype can be.  The mare is not typical of any colour, and does not really look Silver Bay to me, her mane is not light enough and the tail is affected by the pattern.  So, do you think she is sun bleached as well??

420350[/snapback]

U are good Rabbitsfizz! Guessing dunalino in the sire, I did think he was an odd colored palomino from the 1 photo I saw and that would explain it. I remember when that was discussed and Jills dunalino mare. So u think I may have a smokey silver gruella? How exciting as I have recently fallen for gruellas! Something about that color, I had decided I wanted one. So guess that means this filly is a keeper too,LOL.
 
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hairicane

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Oh I wanted to say that Charade the momma horse is pictured just after shedding out all her winter coat so this is her true unbleached color. She really looks an even dark chocolate color except where her pinto white, she is a very even coloring all over. And the color has had me stumped since I 1st saw it. And strange as it is I now have 3 pinto mares all the same wierd color. Two are half sisters, other one is unrelated. Below is Charades half sister , same sire, Lady. She is the exact same color as Charade.



Then I have Bonita who does show a little darker color on her lower leg that isnt white so she is not the exact same color but real close


Boniita also has partial blue eyes.
 

dogsnhorses

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ok...the way i read the results....Ee means both black and red detected...is that not right....which could be a bay....aa means black points only if the color she is normally has them.....

??????

tracy
 

hairicane

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I know! I am almost more confused than before I got the results. But since both mare and filly are neg. for agouti, the bay gene, they are basically black horses but now we are thinking the filly is a smokey silver gruella(dun) and that she got the dun genes from her dad. Sure can be confusing!

Agouti

aa Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. The basic color of the horse will be black in the absence of other modifying genes.
 

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