Goat & rabbit ?s

[paintponylvr]

Not sure how to bring this up... so.

Guess I'll start with the goats.

My hubby and I are looking around and last year (2012), he was pretty adamant that he wants to invest in a couple of dairy goats... WHY? I dunno... Just do. SOOOOO, I start looking around. He mentioned this BEFORE the State Fair last year, so at the fair, I got to meet several breeders of goats. Saw several different breeds and then ... someone had a Nigerian Dwarf jump up onto a milking stand. She gave the same amount of milk as a goat twice her size had just a short time previous. I was amazed! So I went home to start doing some more studying. Life got in the way and no goats in 2013 - not a bad thing as I still wanted to do more research. I went out to many websites and youtube videos for everything from disbudding the kids to making laundry soap and yogurt from goat's milk. We evaluated the property we currently lease and figured out a place or two we could house a couple of goats. I figure we need at least 2 - to keep each other company and also so that when one is winding down in milk production, the other can go on...

After much studying, I don't want a male goat (billy?) - of any breed. I think I"ve decided that I really do want ND goats. So... if I purchase a doe pregnant, with a 2nd doe "in the wings", I"d have to find a farm that has goats for "stud purposes" - that will compliment the girls that I have. I have already been able to pick several "bloodlines" that I favor that have the "type" I like (& color, too) as well as GOOD milk production - passed on genetically both on the top and the bottom and tested for. I certainly don't need to have a lot of milk, but if I'm going to be bringing "kids" into this world, they need to be able to carry on the best traits I can start them out with.

So the problem - all the farms I"ve seen websites for of my chosen breed doesn't allow a female goat to come visit their "man". So how does one go about getting their does bred UNLESS they have the "fella" as well? I understand why some farms are so adamant about various issues, but how then does a "back yard owner/breeder" get her doe(s) bred? With the number of animals we have, while I want to participate in the various programs that the Dairy Goat Assn has and promotes, I don't want be committed to showing or even to breeding year after year... So again, how does the one or two goat owner get their "girls" serviced?? Are mini goats AI'd?

Rabbits are similar. I don't want just pets and I don't know how much I'd be able to show them... I am interested in meat. Anywho, this year, at the State Fair we visited the rabbit barn quite a number of times - at different times of the 3 different days we went. I wanted to be able to visit with the "helpers" (not the right term) at different times. When I finally got "brave" and really started asking ??s, the woman whom was volunteering (& showing rabbits) went into a tirade when I said we'd purchased our first rabbit at a feed store. She went on and on about how wrong that was that I bought a rabbit at a "Pet Store" (not) and how it wasn't good to have them as just pets and then went on to state how bad it was to have them for meat, etc. Hmmm... So that means "no rabbits", doesn't it?? At first I was upset, then I was peeved (I'm an adult, I may be new but I'm far from stupid and I did not like being spoken to this way - I'm also not rude enough to just walk away), then I was amused and waited until her tirade was over. You see, I'd already noticed that she'd crossed herself up a couple of times - VERY CONTRADICTORY, LOL. When she finally stopped and appeared to be surprised that I was still sitting there (actually part of that was 'cuz my legs were very tired and it felt good to sit there), I asked her very quietly I could come see her Rabbitry. She went ballistic again! O, you can't come out and see mine. Well, why not. Hem, haw, hee hee... finally spit out that first there was no-way a strager could come to visit. ?? So how do you sell your stock that's for sale?

More later, I simply can't stay awake any longer and tomorrow starts early...

 

[shorthorsemom]

Chat with Kim of Crayonbox miniatures on the nigerian dwarf goats. She has a few and breeds and is super helpful for goat questions.

I have one of her retired breeding girls here on my farm and I adore her.

She can tell you about goat service and bucks etc.

PS, with nigerian goats you need good fences. My girl loves to do the stop drop and roll under the smallest of openings and she checks the gates and makes sure they are shut tight.

 

[paintponylvr]

AHAHa! Thanks. Would the 16' long panels work for fencing (sitting on the ground)? Or field fence with hot wire on top (later - another investment)? Both are actually shown in the various websites I've been to as well as the books I've checked out. I've enjoyed the visiting I've done with the goats I've visited so far.

The gates - hmmm... Can see that the gate to a goat pasture may have to be covered in wire and have the wired dropped down below the bottom rail. Ah... the fun of other animals!!

I remember milking goats (not purebred, but full size) for a woman when I was a teenager when she went out of town. The 3 or 4 goats all stayed in a 3 rail pasture fence with the big horses. That was some of the best cheese (soft) and yogurt I'd ever had! Ice cream, too. The actual milk - I wasn't crazy about - but did drink it for 3 summers almost exclusively. Mom and Dad quit buying milk at the grocery store those summers - I was often paid at least partially in goat milk, and the products when working for her those years...

Thanks for the advice, I'll talk to Kim.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I love my Nigerians!

I have not attempted to milk mine yet, we did milk our Alpine this year, but not sure we will next year due to my new work schedule. It is a commitment once you start, have to be available around the same time at least once a day (you can milk once a day, but you will get more milk if you milk twice a day). I have 5 Nigerian Dwarf goats: 2 adult does, 2 weanling does & 1 buck, and we also have my sister's 1 Alpine doe.

Fencing: For smaller pens/paddocks I recommend hog or cattle panels, or wooden fencing lined with small hole wire or chicken wire at the bottom. Gates we use chainlink dog pen gates, you can often find them on craigslist or other places used if you don't want to buy new. If you get the pipe gates, depending how big the holes are you will have to line it with chicken wire or the construction fence to keep them from climbing through. Keep gaps between post/gates as tight as possible. If you are fencing in a quarter acre or larger space, the goats test the fences a lot less, so you can get away with small hole wire fencing, because there is more for them to eat. If they are happy with what is inside the fence they are less likely to try and get out, if there is something more attractive on the other side, they will find a way to get to it. Most goats are not like shorthorsemom's retired girl from me who loves to run through any open gate, you can teach them to respect the gate and stay back until you invite them out. Her girl got spoiled, her name is Princess for a reason! We had to separate her for grain time because she was retired from breeding, and the easiest way was to let her out of the pen and tie her with her handful of grain, so she learned to run out of the gate twice a day at feeding time.

Breeding: you can AI goats, but for only 2 backyard goats it is expensive to get the equipment to do it yourself. It may depend on if you can find a vet or inseminator in your area that is experienced or willing to learn with goats. I have never done AI in goats, it might be something I will do in the future, but I enjoy keeping the bucks around, despite the smell.

Another option would be to purchase a weanling or yearling buck when you want to breed, and then resell after breeding. The younger bucks do not have as strong an odor as the older ones. The bucks can start breeding by 6 months old, they aren't always fertile, but they should be able to handle 2 does. It will be harder to get the bloodlines/pedigree you desire, and you may not always recoup what you spend to purchase the buck, but fall is a good time to buy/sell bucks because it's the best time to breed.

It is possible, but it is harder to get goats bred for milk year-round. Breeding goats during the summer months is difficult, they don't cycle as regularly when it's hot, and the bucks aren't as eager to service the does either. You can freeze extra milk. We froze over 10 gallons of milk from the summer, so we could thaw it over the winter months. It does look/taste a little different than the raw milk.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

Just noticed your question about the hot wire on top, with the smaller goats you don't need to worry about them climbing over the top of the fencing if it's the standard 4' high, and as long as you keep anything they can jump on away from the fence so they can't jump or climb on anything and then go over the fence. The standard size dairy goats will climb or jump fences, that is the reason for the hot wire on top.

 

[shorthorsemom]

yes she is a PRINCESS and I love her just the way she is. haha She loves to lay in a pea gravel spot in a paddock I have.

she hasn't run through any gates since I put my fainting goats in with her. She loves the fainters and content to hang out more where she is supposed to be but she sure makes me laugh with her antics. Every goat has an individual personality too. They are as different as people.

My gates are pipe, were purchased for horses initially. In another goat field I have I have those gates that look like they have a fence panel in them and that worked great when my fainters were small. baby goats are much harder to contain for obvious reasons.

 

[amysue]

I love ND goats. I keep several to keep my minis company. As for stud service, in my area many people rent the buck out for his service rather than take goat does in. Why I am not sure, but that seems to be what they all offer. You cam AI them but it may not be cost effective for you on a small scale. If you make a connection with whom ever you purchase your goats from they may board the does to breed them. As for fence, goats love to jump and climb. To keep mine in I wired corral panels with wire mesh so they cant climb over, crawl under or jump over. I have had much success with the electronic mesh fence with a hot wire on top.

 

[Miniv]

Sounds like you met a nutty rabbit person.

My daughter is active with 4-H rabbit and poultry. Consequently, we are now breeders in a small way of Satin Rabbits. We have a small clutch of chickens too, but that's another story....hahaha..... Satin Rabbits are a good meat rabbit and also make good pets. They come in many colors, which is fun to breed for, and their coats are soft/easy to care for. I would google about Satins to learn more about them.

 

[paintponylvr]

O THANX everyone for all the responses!

Kim - I went out to your site and fell in love with the one girl you currently have for sale. If I was already set up for goats, we'd be talking. I'm not ready, tho... Maybe later (about 6 months)! I was planning on pedigreed/papered goats to get started - is it advantageous to do so - or for my ideas go with unregistered? Part of the reason I really like the idea of going with paper/pedigreed was knowing what is behind the goats for production... I have not yet really talked to our extension agent or been out to any actual farms with dairy goats (have been out to Boer goat farms - not what I want).

MiniV - Rabbits - I know that I met a "nutty rabbit person". But then I have to say that a lot of the rabbit owners/breeders I've either met in the past year and/or have been to their websites appear to be somewhat the same. And the main reasoning I've been given is due to the "crazy SPCA folk". I can sort of understand that to a point. BUT. O - YOU ARE THE ONE - who has the Arenosa bred minis and ponies that I studied when I purchased a daughter of Flaby's Mr. Chips a few years ago!! I'm out of time tonight - but would love to talk sometime... Maybe have more time during the 2 weeks (+) that I'll be off at Christmas?

Satins were one breed I was looking at... I liked several breeds - but did gravitate towards the smaller breeds. Not the best choice for a meat rabbit or pelts probably but then again... Also liked a smaller breed - Netherland Dwarf. I liked the mini breeds - the mini Satin, the mini Rex. I like several colors - but favor the broken patterns in "chestnut" or "buckskin"... Don't care for ruby eyed whites or solid blacks in any of the breeds. It was GREAT FUN looking at all the rabbits at the fair and when ever I've had the chance to go look on line at the various breeds and registries I've had fun, too!

Part of my reasoning for rabbits and goats is a different type of meat (as well as milk). I love the eggs from my chickens, enjoy the "talking" and "chirring" they do, but also have no problem with butchering some for our table. Also have raised Pekin ducks - YUM - and currently have Mallard ducks. Turkeys - had a harder time with. I wasn't set up for them, so I went in with a freind and she kept hers and ours together. Out of 10 the first year, we lost 8. The 2nd year, I missed buying some and wasn't comfortable with mail ordering little turkeys and again, the ones she had this time all died... We haven't figured out exactly why... but until we do, turkeys are on hold. I want our "farmette" to become as self sufficient as I can make it. I don't foresee that happening overnight but we are working on it one step at a time. Yes, our animals are also our buddies. The one rabbit we currently have will never be butchered or go anywhere... He doesn't come into the house on a regular basis, but does come in several times a week (well - who knows - he's hubbies' baby and he may bring him in when I'm at work, LOL!)... His living quarters are pretty NICE! The outdoor cats try sharing with him sometimes, too. It's hilarious!

For the last several years we've added some new animals. We have time yet to learn, to check out and to decide on which we are providing for next and bringing in... WE are doing enough already and with adding in more animal types I am considering going into the red worm composting with the various manures, card board and may start talking to the local restaurants about their waste veggies and fruits etc... Looking at different ways to bring in an income so that when hubby retires we can still live. I also see a time in the future when may not want to continue at the spay/neuter clinic. Eventually want our house and barn to have solar power and also fully guttered w/ rain barrels.

I seem to really like the mini type animals these days - mini equine, mini goats, mini rabbits, bantam chickens - MAYBE because we have a mini farmette! It's 8.9 acres. But I think also because they are easier to care for (well, to me) and just FUN to watch.

****

Next on the list - turning my brown thumb into a green thumb via SQF (Square Foot Gardening)... and also trying out hydroponic fodder for the critters.

 

[Miniv]

We also are drawn to "mini" animals, hence our farm name of Miniature Ventures.

However, we chose not to go with mini Satins because their personalities weren't as mellow. I like the Rex but be careful with their coats. They can't get wet or it will ruin them.

Yes, we have Arenosas and we'd enjoy visiting with you about them some time.

It sounds that you do your homework with whatever animal you pursue and give you kuddos for that.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

Kim - I went out to your site and fell in love with the one girl you currently have for sale. If I was already set up for goats, we'd be talking. I'm not ready, tho... Maybe later (about 6 months)! I was planning on pedigreed/papered goats to get started - is it advantageous to do so - or for my ideas go with unregistered? Part of the reason I really like the idea of going with paper/pedigreed was knowing what is behind the goats for production

It depends on your area for marketing if you plan to sell kids. My goats are all from registered stock, but the paperwork got lost along the way, so some of them are unregistered. Pet goats and especially the Nigerian breed are easy to sell around here. It is a little harder to find the registered and the price tags are very different! I use Craigslist predominately to sell and I've had some repeat buyers too. This was the first year I had someone interested but turn down the kids because they were unregistered. I am moving towards some registered does to have more to offer. I am more picky about the goats personality, and also if they are easy to handle, good mothers, hardy/healthy, as well conformation because the personality & health are most important for pets as well as breeding. I didn't really plan to get into breeding so heavily, just wanted a few for fun and pets, but really loved the Nigerian breed. I grew up with goats, we've had many different breeds of the years, they are my second love after horses.

 

[paintponylvr]

Kim - your website doesn't begin to convey your interest in the goats or that you grew up with goats! I would never have known!!! Of course, when I've gone out to your site in the past (love the little appies), I wasn't looking at or for goats, so wouldn't have/didn't go out to that link... Did you show your goats when you were growing up?

MiniV - didn't know that about the mini Rex coats. Haven't gotten that far with the studying/reading yet I suppose... The rabbit idea is still fairly new. Really just starting to get there with that... I've just noticed that not only do I like the mini sized critters, I love the broken or "pinto" type patterns - in the rabbits, the goats, the dogs (mini aussies in merle, tri color JRT, peach parti rat terrier, parti poms) and the cats (LOVE calicos). One breed of rabbit I did find fascinating was the Harlequinn. That is amazing how the color does that! In that I like the "blue & orange"... I know that they aren't a small rabbit though. Yes, I'm fascinated by colors.

I was amazed that after studying the rabbits for a little bit, I was able to pick out the winning ones - before we checked out the placings at the State Fair. I also did something similar with a lot of the bantam chickens at the State Fair... WEIRD (for me).

What is it truly like to show rabbits?

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

Kim - your website doesn't begin to convey your interest in the goats or that you grew up with goats! I would never have known!!! Of course, when I've gone out to your site in the past (love the little appies), I wasn't looking at or for goats, so wouldn't have/didn't go out to that link... Did you show your goats when you were growing up?

I know, I really need to redo my website and add more goat stuff, I just haven't had time. We had dairy goats to milk for our family when I was very young for my mom and younger brother because of allergies they could drink the goats milk. Not long after that my parents got into breeding & showing Pygmy Goats. I did show dairy goats in 4-H in the neighboring county, but we were getting more into the Pygmy goats, so my parents started a local Pygmy Goat 4-H club and we kept that going for many years (it's still going today, but we are no longer involved with running it). When I was in middle school & high school we had a state certified goat dairy and sold raw milk, when that ended we tried meat goats, but that didn't last long. We were too used to goats being our pets, and in the end we didn't really enjoy the boer breed as much either. Went a few years without any goats after we lost the few retired dairy goats & Pygmy goats we had kept. Of course I missed the goats, so I started looking for Nigerians because I wanted the color & personality of the dairy goats, but the smaller size of the Pygmy goats. That's the short version of my life with goats, never had Angora goats, that's about the only breed I've not experienced!

 

[Miniv]

My daughter is breeding for broken coloring with her small program she has. She's learning about pedigree and color genetics. It's all fun. And then there's the showing.....She goes to two a year.

To show a rabbit, you place it on a table, on top of a mat, and make the rabbit sit in an almost crouched position -- sort of bunched up. I recommend that you ask breeders in your area about any shows happening, so you can go watch.