Gay marriage - taking a step away from progress

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

ozymandias

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
597
Reaction score
1
This topic is going to be controversial so I suggest not reading if your big girl or boy panties aren't on.

I'm just disgusted. Makes me wonder what year we're living in. Certainly doesn't feel like 2012.

I was chilling out today watching the news. There was coverage of Obama's recent endorsement of gay marriage and how church groups who voted for him before are now saying because of this that he's going to be loosing their backing. Romney is openly against it because of his religion and hasn't hidden that fact. He uses the excuse that it's protecting the family. what - so gay people don't have loving, strong, healthy, good, honest families too?! (side note - the highest divorce rate in America is in the bible belt - the lowest is Atheists - can't give the gay %'s because they're being denied this right).

Leave people alone !!! Gee all they want to do is have the same basic rights that we male/female married couples enjoy. Love is love! You can't tell me a man/woman relationship is any different than a same sex relationship when it comes to love. This is as basic and backwards as not letting black people ride the same bus, or give up their seat to a white person in the American 50's. I can't imagine not being allowed to get healthcare or visit a loved one in hospital because people wouldn't allow it!

I'm not gay. I do't even know any gay folks except cyber ones but I 100% support their right and will fight for them and vote accordingly.

Off my soapbox, flame away, big girl panties being worn lol

default_smile.png
 
The reality is, everybody can talk all they want, until somebody takes a stand or those who say they will follow through it will always be the same as it is now.
 
Well Susie you know me, i am NEVER one to be controversial, however i do have an opinion, and it is as such:

When churches get involved in political issues then they should start paying taxes! That simple.

The constitution clearly states there be a separation of church and state.

I think the last time religion played a part in state affairs, we burned witches at the stake!

We Christians were a whole lot cooler when we were just worried about being left alone and not getting eaten by lions!

But Susie! hey....dont forget, we can still marry our first cousins in NC!!!!....just not our gay ones!LOL!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The members of the church pay taxes (most of them). So if the leadership says something, the masses will go along with it. Some churches say jump, and every single member nation-wide in one voice asks "how high?"
 
Members pay taxes, i know i sure pay mine, but the churches which are "big business" are tax exempt. but they still try to tell the members how to vote.

Throughout history religion has been used to control the masses and try to keep people from free thinking.

I have always felt if you use "faith, and "morals" to hurt people, then you have no "faith" and "morals" to prove.

The God i pray to does not discriminate against any of us.
 
lil hoofbeats, I don't know what it is but you have me in hysterics almost every time you post lol I always appreciate your sense of humor. What you said is also so true. I think it shows very clearly that Romney will NOT separate church from State if elected. If he's doing it now, we can't go crying foul when he's still doing it later.

Nathan, I wonder how long it's going to take them to realize that only sheep need shepherds! If something's not right - it's not right. How can you preach love and acceptance and then call an entire segment of the population sinners simply based on their lifestyle? I guess that has to be a rhetorical question as I know why - it's in the bible. If this were some neo-Nazi group spouting this all merry heck would hit the fan but because it's hatred under the name of religion it becomes a political issue people are proud to stand behind.

Sometimes makes me wonder just how much progress we've made in the last few hundred years. Sure doesn't feel like much when one group takes away the rights of another group like this based on their faith.
 
I sometimes feel Americans go way extreme (on both sides) on political issues.. All U.S. has to do is look NORTH and see how the happy people live in Canada.. that terrible socialist country with free health care for all it's citizens, no hand guns and YES, they accept same sex marriage.. <<< It is a non issue for all of the above..
ML - I 100% agree with you! As someone who has lived in Europe and traveled extensively outside of the U.S. I'm really concerned at just how backwards we're becoming as a society. We're not making any forward progress and what little we do make is being squelched by the countries overwhelming Christian majority. I hate to always blame religion but it has a lot to do with our progress. Jeez, only 39% of Americans believe in evolution what !!!! The rest of the world is laughing at us. Our education system here SUCKS. When we came here from GB my younger bro was 15 - he got to sit around for a few years before college not doing anything because educationally he'd completed high school already. I had people walk up to me and ask where I was from, when I said England, they asked if that was in France
default_frusty.gif
...seriously! I have good friends here who are convinced the earth is 7000 years old and when you try to have an intelligent conversation with than about it they stick their heads in the sand and cry "not true, not true, not true". 3 years ago an awesome movie about Darwin (Creation) was released worldwide....it wasn't shown in one US cinema because no distributors would pick it up for fear of offending the majority of cinema goers. Don't get me wrong - I'll defend anyone's right to worship the god/religion of their choice because in doing so it also allows me the right not to but pleeeeaze people - keep it out of politics and advancement. We're denying gay rights based on it, stem cell research based on it, the list goes on...and sadly on.

How can we progress as a society when we're living n the dark ages. I love America but I don't love what we as a people are currently doing to her. Yes, we have a lot to learn from our educated, peaceful, modern neighbors to the north.

And please don't get me started on the hand gun issue....

default_whistling.gif
 
Respectfully, I disagree.

First of all, marriage licenses are provided through the State government. So, although President Obama's position is interesting, it really carries no more weight than the Mayor of Detroit saying we should invade Iran. It is news worthy, but nothing has changed.

Leave people alone !!! Gee all they want to do is have the same basic rights that we male/female married couples enjoy.

Gays and lesbians have the same rights as heterosexuals, what they are asking for is a 'new' right. The right to marry anyone they want. If I was a polygamist and wanted to marry 3 wives that I loved and all loved me, am I asking for 'the same basic right' as all other people or am I asking for a 'new' right?

Love is love! You can't tell me a man/woman relationship is any different than a same sex relationship when it comes to love.

I agree, but love isn't marriage. Marriage is more than just love. Should marriage be allowed between an adult and a child simply because they love? Should marriage be allowed between siblings because they love?

This is as basic and backwards as not letting black people ride the same bus, or give up their seat to a white person in the American 50's.

In those cases blacks were denied the exact same right reserved for whites. I do not agree that the same argument can be extrapolated here.

I can't imagine not being allowed to get healthcare or visit a loved one in hospital because people wouldn't allow it!

As someone who pays for 100% of their own healthcare, I never understand why people think someone else paying for their healthcare should be a 'right'?

Anyway, except for government jobs, you are free to find an employer who provides healthcare for your same sex partner. As for the Hospital, they are a private institution and can allow what ever they want. It is my understanding that if paperwork is done a Hospital will allow same sex visitation.

Dr Taylor
 
I live in Vermont so that about sums it up for me. Lil Hoofbeats, interesting thought.
 
Respectfully, I disagree.
Respectfully disagree back at ya lol.

They are being denied the same rights as heterosexual couples, because they're being denied marriage rights, along with that (depending on the state you're in) comes all kinds of other issues like inheritance laws etc.

I pay 100% of my own healthcare too. Well over $24,000 a year for a family of 4 and there's no problems for me getting a spouse included because we're legally married. There are gay couples that have been together for more years my hubby and I have (24 by the way) that can't get family care because they're not able to marry. Their children are denied coverage too because of the marriage situation of the parents when the child "belongs" to the partner not getting the existing coverage.

Why do you believe people of different ethnic backgrounds deserve the same rights as each other based on skin color but people of different sexual orientation do not deserve those same rights? You can't discriminate over sexual orientation when renting them an apartment or advertising a house for sale?

As for the marriage comments - don't be silly of course marriage is more than love lol! We're talking about two unrelated, consenting adults who's only difference between most marriages is that they are of the same sex. I know you're not seriously trying to compare two consenting adults with a pedophile relationship right? I just don't buy the pedophile or incest comparison.

Can I ask you a question? Are you in support of or against gay marriage? Sometimes knowing people stance explains their opinions
default_smile.png


What I don't understand when it comes to people being against gay marriage because their religion says it's a sin. The same bible tell us that slavery is okay -but we don't believe that (hopefully) It says rape is okay but we don't believe that (hopefully) Incest, genocide is okay etc.

default_yes.gif
 
I agree, but love isn't marriage. Marriage is more than just love. Should marriage be allowed between an adult and a child simply because they love? Should marriage be allowed between siblings because they love?
This gets into the specious arguments against gay marriage like - well then, if a man loves his pet goat, should he be allowed to marry it? - and similar nonsense. If a civil union can be granted for a gay couple - and not to a guy and a goat or an adult and a child or a brother and sister... why can they also not marry? Hey, in NC you can marry your first cousin (unless they are gay) ... as lil hoofbeats pointed out!

The next argument is usually the Biblical one. We ignore a lot of what the Bible tells us to do - and yet some insist that we must honour one small passage in Leviticus while discounting all the rest... very selective reading and interpretation, if you ask me.

If it does not affect straight people personally if a gay couple wants to wed - and trust me, the world will not end if they do - then why does it matter?

I applaud the states who have allowed gay marriage.... Connecticutt, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York and Vermont. Plus Washington, D.C. Maryland and Washington have also endorsed same sex marriage but it has yet to come into effect.

Dr. Taylor - I am not going to get into the healthcare debate here - as this should remain a thread about same sex marriage - but I have lived under both systems - or the lack of one here. I can tell you that most of the tales that are told here about the Canadian system by the anti-healthcare side are wrong - sure, it has its flaws and long waits at times - but the same things happen here. I do have as much health insurance as I can afford here - I pay for it myself - and yet it is not enough and thanks to medical bills I no longer have any savings etc. I am not keen on people lecturing me about healthcare and telling me how perfect the system is here.... and I am not the only one who is in this situation. But no matter - back on topic.

In an emergency - is there time to fill out "paperwork" that must be approved in order to be permitted to be with a loved one??
 
On the topic of health care for a brief moment, Vermont is instituting a single payer system and health care will be available to all. Back to equal rights for all.
 
I guess I'll chime in, I live in Maryland, we voted to allow same sex unions! I think if this subject was taken on at the Federal level the states would follow. Right now non-married gay couples can not file taxes jointly, and if they adopt children, both parents should be listed as parents or if one passes the kids will suffer becuase they won't be eligable for benefits. This list goes on and on. As far as health care, in my state if you are in the maternity ward, all a visitor has to do is sign in and visit a patient, but in order to cut back on infections, if you have had surgery you are only allowed two visitors and they must be imediate family. They must sign in when you arrive and are given a card, so they only can visit. The last time I had surgery only my spouse and one daughter could visit, the other kids were left out in the cold.
 
I can't say whether or not Dr. Taylor and I feel the same... if I had a magic wand, I would make it okay for all committed couples to marry. That said, though. Read each point he's made. He is RIGHT ON. He is correct, every word he wrote. Absolutely true. Cannot fault the logic or the facts there. No matter if you like it or not, he's got it all right in his post. Point for point, 100% correct.

What I think is that Obama's announcement is purely political. He's raking in some big bucks on the heels of the announcement and his campaign is selling shirts that say "My two dads support Obama", "LGBT's for Obama",, ETC., but I imagine "I"m straight and support Mitt Romney" would be seen as hateful... Really, another way to DIVIDE our people. Class warfare, race warfare, political warfare, religious warfare, and now this. Making our differences feel like they matter more and more all the time, and that's not good. Never have known of a more divisive president, and I think there's a good chance his so called "evolution of opinion" will cost him some swing states.

Even if I were gay, I cannot imagine that marriage issues would out rank the economy and national security when it comes to political concerns I hold dear. If we're week in those two big areas, and we ARE, lots of other things may not matter. None of our international enemies tolerate openly gay people, let alone their marriage "rights". Food for thought.

Bottom line politically -- "It's still the economy, stupid" and I think we're seeing lots of smoke and mirrors. Distractions, nothing else / nothing more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you were gay and couldn't do half the things you take for granted with your husband, you'd think that gay rights were a little more of a priority than you do now. If I were trying to get married to a man that I loved, and had a job, the economy wouldn't take priority. If I didn't have a job, economic issues would take priority in my world. But just because something isn't the TOP priority doesn't mean it isn't dang important to you.

As far as paperwork in a hospital, if the patient is unconscious, they can't exactly declare who they want to visit, can they? Or if they are on their deathbed and may never wake up, say, in the case of an auto accident? But I guess since they are both the same sex, there is no reason why the other partner would need any visitation to say their goodbyes, right?
 
Each church has a right to conduct a marriage service that they feel is appropriate. (We had to jump through hoops because we were brought up in two different Christian churches!) It has nothing to do with a civil union.

Personally, if two people, no matter what sex they are, should have a right to a civil union. It honors their relationship and protects them legally in the future. Churches don't need to be involved, but unfortunately state governments do.......

Frankly, since this is legally a state by state decision, what Obama or the GOP candidate personally feels is irrelivent. Not quite sure what all the hoopla is about with the media because of this.

And if I were a homosexual and wanted to honor a union to another, right now I'd go to a state that allows it......
 
Nathan, I didn't say anything I didn't mean or haven't thought long and hard about. I think National security and the economy would still be at the top of my list of political concerns even if I were gay.

For whatever it's worth, remember I am one of those Republicans who not only doesn't oppose gay marriage, I support it and am outspoken about that feeling. It's just not getting top billing on my list of political concerns, and probably never will.
 
PS: Just want to add fuel to the fire...hahaha.....

I don't think it's up to we humans to judge......When two people intend to spend a life together and it's not hurting anyone else, I don't understand what the big deal is. I'm sorry if this offends people because of what the Bible says......But READ the Bible. I for one am not willing to "cast the first stone".....and I have plenty of logs in my eyes and don't think I can see well enough to go digging in someone else's.
 
Since there are marriage laws in each state, it would be hard for an adult to marry a child. All but one state has the minimum age to marry as 18 unless you have signed permission from the parents, in most cases both parents, in some cases the parents have to be in attendance to obtain the licence. There are even strickter laws for marriage under the age of 16. So its not like you as an adult can tell a 12 year old you love them and get married. There are laws already to cover that.

So why can't the law read, legal union between two consenting adults. That would stop someone from marrying their dog, cat, horse or donkey.

Next is the hospital issues, if gay marriage were allowed, that would be covered. But if you know as a gay couple that you can't be married, I would have a legal paper drawn up tomorrow as to your wishes in the case of anything happening. Don't wait for it to happen and wish you had done something, do it now. Be proactive until the laws are changed.

As for my opinion, I think if two consenting adults want to spend their life together, its no ones business but theirs. Everyone deserves that no matter who you are.
 
personally I dont think Obama is for gay marriage rights... He has been in office for four years and hasnt said or done anything to support his NOW views.. He blowing smoke... for the gay vote...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top