From a buyers prospective

[GrandmaC]

Over the last week of looking at website after website I'd like to give you sellers some buyer's prospective thoughts.

Cause it has truly be frustrating for me. I'm not trying to be rude, disrespectful or hateful in any way shape or form.

Having my own business I can see what others do as sales tactics (baits, showing what I did prior that is already sold, etc)

and I am both a seller and a buyer not only in the market for horses but for my business which is not animal related.

Here goes

1) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, once you sell a horse get if off your sale page. Put it in the sold pages.

Do you know how frustrating it is to look at a sale page, drool and think, I like that only to scroll down and see SOLD and

have it happen over and over again and some of your sites over 50% on your sale pages are already sold.

I want to see what is available not what I missed out on. I realize many of you have jobs and families on top of your horse business

and maintaining a website takes time. But your web site is just as important as peoples first impression of you when

they meet you in person.

Also don't leave the horse you had for $1,500 or $2,000 on your sales page that has already been sold especially when you truly have nothing for sale under $4,000. Or a $4,000 horse when you only have $7,000 and above ones for sale.

It's a poor bait tactic that can make buyers feel you're being dishonest just to reel people in.

When they truly are not looking for $4,000 and $7,000 horses.

2) NOTE: THIS TRULY does not apply to anyone on the forum that I know of, just FYI for sellers.

I get SO tired of hearing, "I paid $5,000 for it 3 or 5 years ago, you're getting a STEAL at $2,500.'

You know folks, things aren't what they use to be when 5 years ago we were able to sell things (even homes) for twice what we

paid for them and when gas prices were $1.75 a gallon. The economy sucks, times are hard, I myself am thankful I even have a business anymore that still has sales. Not to mention a husband with a retirement check. Many over the last 2 to 4 years have lost their homes, their jobs, their pensions. Be thankful there are still buyers out there in these times. Hay prices are through the roof and most of our good stuff is being shipped overseas. Gas did go down but now it's back up to or over $3.00 a gal let us all pray it doesn't make it back to nearly $5. a gal by summer like two years ago.

You all know you like to get the best deal for your buck when buying something and the most you can get when you're selling something. Stop getting all peeved when someone else tries to do the same.

You don't want to sell it for less? Good, sit on it and continue to feed it for another 6 to 12 months.

I don't care what you paid for it or what you have into it, it doesn't make me appreciate the deal any better, at once it use to make me feel bad now it just tickes me off and makes you look like a whining butt little brat.

If you're not 100% happy and sure you can live with the price you're charging then hold off and sell it for what you truly want later. My ex had a horse he would not sell for $2,500 offered cause he was bent on taking no less than $4,000 for it.

He never sent it to the trainer it just sat doing nothing but eating and causing more expense.

Last I heard he still had it even 3 years later, still eating up his money, still not doing anything with it.

Off this forum I have dealt with 2 flakes in the last week. I'm glad I came here to deal with normal people LOL Just take the above as insight.

I have found out that the two flakes? Found out they have been pulling the same crap on others for months and are still sitting on those horses. One of them for nearly a year.

DISCLAIMER: #2 is just FYI for insight and knowledge and in no way reflects any of my dealings with anyone on this forum. I am very thankful for the kind people on this forum who have been trying to help me.

Oh and an early HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY to all the moms out there.

GrandmaC

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I think your points are well taken. I'm not offended by it and agree with most. The one thing that crossed my mind when reading was about what a seller has in a horse. It's true, what was paid for an animal 3 years ago really doesn't have much to do with what it's worth now, but I do think understanding that someone has put $2k (or whatever the amount is) in professional training on a horse does mean something. It doesn't mean you're going to get that back, but it does tell me as the buyer something about the horse's background.

I enjoy your posts. Keep em coming!

 

[Riverdance]

No one is going to hate you for some good advise from a prospective buyer.

Many web sites are maintained by people other than the sellers, which then one has to wait until the person handling the web site gets around to making the changes.

I was fortunate to have my web site built by someone who set it up so that I can make all of the changes, which allows me to have an updated web site. Others are not so fortunate.

I am not slamming you here, just letting you know.

As for" I paid more for the horse, then I am selling it for", I have to admit I am guilty there. Some horses I paid a large sum for and it hurts to be selling them for so much less than was paid for them. but you are right, it is the sign of the time. I for one, will have to make sure I do not say that anymore.

 

[GrandmaC]

I think your points are well taken. I'm not offended by it and agree with most. The one thing that crossed my mind when reading was about what a seller has in a horse. It's true, what was paid for an animal 3 years ago really doesn't have much to do with what it's worth now, but I do think understanding that someone has put $2k (or whatever the amount is) in professional training on a horse does mean something. It doesn't mean you're going to get that back, but it does tell me as the buyer something about the horse's background.

I enjoy your posts. Keep em coming!

Oh none of this had to do with training. I use to send my horses to training and it was $800 a month and that was 10 yrs ago. By time my horses (who didn't make the cut for what I wanted) were sold I had anywhere from $4,800 to over $8,000 in training alone not to mention the stud fee paid to produce the 2 or 3 y/o in training and the feed and care to get it that far.

Training IMHO sure adds value to a horse. I'm glad you're enjoying my posts, I was totally expecting to be tarred and feathered when I posted this.

 

[GrandmaC]

No one is going to hate you for some good advise from a prospective buyer.

As for" I paid more for the horse, then I am selling it for", I have to admit I am guilty there. Some horses I paid a large sum for and it hurts to be selling them for so much less than was paid for them. but you are right, it is the sign of the time. I for one, will have to make sure I do not say that anymore.

Yeah to be honest you're only going to be doing one of two things

You'll make someone feel bad who totally understands

or you'll tick someone off who will think, why is she whining? It's her choice to take the loss.

As a person who wholesales to many stores, who wants to tick off or make a customer feel bad who is about ready to write that check?

 

[disneyhorse]

Hey, I hear you! Every now and then I shop for other people (or myself!!!), and I am amazed at how HARD it is to buy a horse sometimes!

First of all, I don't understand why anyone who breeds with foals to sell, or averages several horses per year for sale, doesn't have a website. I won't look at many ads (on Dreamhorse.com, this saleboard, whatever) that doesn't have a picture. If it has a picture, it better be a good one and hopefully the person has a website I can see more pictures and video of. Why make the buyer work? Why not have pedigree, information, price, and pictures available? Lots of places have free websites, yes they take a little work and time but it takes work and time away from your buyers.

Your website also allows the buyer to see what quality horses you have, learn something about your farm (if you show at Nationals, hopefully you have a better eye than Joe-schmoe who doesn't show does, if you are looking for a horse of that quality), see it's sire and dam and maybe siblings. Sometimes I see another horse on the sales page that i like even better!

And if you HAVE a website, gosh, keep it up to date! When you see the "2007 Foals Page" and it's 2010, that really turns me off and I usually don't bother.

Don't make me hunt for sales horses. I don't want to look through the Geldings, Mares, Foals,etc. pages looking for what you have for sale. Just a Sales page, all together. It can be a long sales page... I personally don't like clicking through Stallions for Sale, Mares for Sale, Foals for sale, etc. because it takes too much time. And I want to see EVERYTHING for sale, anyway, because again, you never know what might catch your eye more than what you were looking for. I'm usually looking for mares, but those darn colts always catch my eye and that's what I usually end up buying.

Take lots of pictures of your sales horses, all the time, in hopes you get better ones than the ones you have currently... and also to keep the photos current. On my own website (I don't have anything for sale) I always keep current pictures of my horses, and sure there's always that cute baby picture or old show photo that you love that stays on, but SOMETHING should be current.

And just plain TAKE pictures!! A furry picture of your mini is a LOT better to have than NO picture. Brush the horse, if you have clippers, clip the bridle path and beard off, and set the horse up. Most buyers understand that they get furry. Just have photos also from last summer, too, if the horse is old enough

Video is NOT that hard these days. Pretty much ALL cell phones and digital cameras have some sort of video capabilities... and YouTube is easy and free. AND you can link those videos right to your website.

Why exclude those people looking for a performance horse, by only showing a standing photo? Go get a plastic bag, chase the horse around a bit so it looks fancy, and video that. Most horses look pretty cute when they are hyped up. I LOVE to watch videos like that of pretty much ANY horse. But do websites have that? The vast majority, nope.

And if the horse jumps or drives... try your hardest to find someone who can video or take pictures of it. It's frustrating to see ads "he drives" but all you can get from the seller is standing photos. Video is amazing, but even I understand how difficult it is to find another person to help. That's why the chase-them-with-a-plastic-bag-in-the-pasture is helpful, because it's easy to do.

I personally don't mind the "I paid $4,500 for this horse last year but... it's cheaper now blah blah" because I myself have sold plenty of horses for FAR less than I've paid, and in some cases given away for free to a good home... and I DO feel that my buyers got a HECK of a deal. When I buy a horse, I pay what I feel is a fair price for the horse, but sometimes circumstances make you sell the horse at a loss. I do feel buyers often get GREAT deals, and that the horses haven't ACTUALLY depreciated, it's just situational. Lucky buyers!

People keep posting the same old ads over and over.. no new pictures, and that usually won't catch someone's eye. I've seen the same horses on the saleboard over and over, and every now and then a good new photo will make me look at the ad.

It's okay to rant here, I think... people WANT to sell their horses, but sometimes they just lack in marketing skills!

Andrea

P.S. I do admire those who go out of their way to market their horses well. Clean websites that are up-to-date, pictures of horses set up/cleaned up even if unclipped or in pasture condition, willingness to sent photos and video immediately upon request, and make it easy to FIND those sales horses through advertising and networking. Not EVERYONE is clueless!

 

[GrandmaC]

Maybe I'm brutal but I like NO DICKER STICKERS.

This is my bottom line, take it or leave it. Oh you want to by 2 or 3 or 4 from me, Ok let's make a deal. Maybe it's age and being busy, but we all have been tuned to ask for more than what we want cause people will try to get us down. But I love the no dicker sticker people. Give me your bottom line and I'll take it or leave it. I'm do busy to haggle.

It bothers me. It irritates me.

Video, that is one thing that has truly shocked me is the number of mini breeders with no video.

You can get a video thingy whatever they call it now a days, flip, cam corder, whatever

and theres YouTube. Lot's a pictures, back, sides, front and a 1 or 2 minute video of it moving.

I bet things like that would make sales go through the roof.

I mean people with other species that are half or a third of the price do video.

It's not all that costly. However as an old poop who has to get her 32 y/o son or the daughter-in-law to help me

with my own website and anything else to do with something as simple as posting a picture

I do have pity on those who are as technologically challenged as I am.

OH and another pet peeve, why do so many people have only foal or a yearling picture up on their sale pages when they are actually trying to sell a 3 y/o or worse yet a 5 or 10 y/o?

Last thought and I need to go do some yard work and get ready for my week-end with my daughter-in-law and granddaughters. (Son is working out of town)

You wanna sell and not waste your time on people, emails, pictures and phone calls?

Lay all your cards out on the table so by your website you're only getting calls and emails from those who want what you got while turning away those who don't want what you got. Another words use your time wisely and respect other peoples time.

I would have a sales page, that if I'm selling a 3 y/o I'd have current pictures, and maybe a picture of when it was a foal and a yearling. Then a small video clip of it moving so people can see movement. If it has produced maybe a picture of what it produced.

HEY people I'm a major marketer. The Lord just seemed to bless me with a big mouth and a tough backbone who can take rejection (grin) At one time when the economy was good I had my products in over 100 stores in several states. Those were the good ole days.

Would it not be less time consuming to put that all up on your website rather than have to talk to, email pics and such to 5 to 10 individuals looking to buy that horse? And instead of emailing and talking to 10 and only one buys, maybe the other 8 or 9 would say, ok seen enough, not for me and you'd only have to deal with the one or two who were in the end, the interested parties. You can either spend an hour on your website with a nice cup of coffee or you can talk to 8 to 10 people for 15 to 30 mins each. Not to mention time spent emailing pictures after the conversation.

 

[DianeT]

I totally agree with updating websites. I realize that some websites have off site personnel doing their updating, but as disneyhorse said "2007 Foals page" hello it's 2010!!!!!!!

I don't think anyone on the forum will get upset with you. We are all looking for imput on how to sell or market our horses better.

Happy Mothers Day to you also.

 

[Witts Mini Horse Ranch]

While you are doing FYI's...please list an asking price! I will not inquiry on a horse that does not have a price...figure I cannot afford it.

BTW guilty.....don't go look at my site...I am updating it right now

I update my facebook more than my website...that is just crazy...I guess because you get an immediate response.

 

[GrandmaC]

While you are doing FYI's...please list an asking price! I will not inquiry on a horse that does not have a price...figure I cannot afford it.

BTW guilty.....don't go look at my site...I am updating it right now

I update my facebook more than my website...that is just crazy...I guess because you get an immediate response.

Yeah, when I drool over a horse and then I read either 1) Call for price or 2) Private tready

I know it's most likely more than I can afford. You know whose website I just really respect.

The Buckeroo one, they have no problem listing their $1,500 horses with their $10,000 and even their $20,000 dollar horses. They do have two private tready ones but for the most part they have their prices all out there highs and lows.

Keeps the looky lou's who want a 3,000 horse from taking ones time on a $20,000 horse.

Ok now I really am leaving to get some work done. it may show I'm on but I won't be. I already forgot my password and leave me as logged in all the time.

 

[GrandmaC]

oops, mods pls delete this, I meant to do an edit not a new reply.

 

[little lady]

Grandma C I like you! I like your honesty I wish more people were honest like you!!

First and a peeve of mine also: Agree with "2007" foals and it is 2010.

Websites not updated, emails that don't work.

I enjoy this thread because right now I fall in the buyers category however maybe some day I will be in the sellers catergory and this will be quite helpful. Thanks for starting this thread!

A few more thoughts to add that I see more as a way to help others:

When asking questions to sellers not getting all of your questions answered. I have a great friend who has helped me through some of my searches and if I shoot her one question or twenty she line by line answeres all of my questions which is what I have done when selling my Paint horses and have had a positive response from the buyers by doing this.

In my search I am looking anywhere in the good ole USA but I do not plan on road tripping to each place nor do I plan on flying to look at each prospective horse so I count on the seller to provide accurate repesenting pictures and /or video and when asking for such I have encountered(very few) but I have encountered an unwelcoming feeling upon asking for such but that makes my decision very easy!

 

[maestoso]

It's generally a buyer's market out there. There are many more horses for sale then there are people looking. Some buyers will say that they don't NEED to sell a horse so they won't budge on this or that and they can just keep the horse and wait for the next buyer. My opinion on this is OK, keep it, plenty of other horses out there to buy, but there are NOT plenty of other buyers, at least right now . . .

I do respect sellers who ensure proper homes and are available for follow up help, etc, and I wouldn't expect a seller to sell a 20k horse for 2k. All I'm saying is that I kind of think it's silly to, for example, decline an 17k offer on a 20k horse. The market is just so shot right now, you are lucky to have someone interested.

Things I see, or don't see on websites that make me close out and go to the next website . . .

Bright clashing colors

Cheesy/kiddie craphics, designs, and themes

NO prices

Missing key info(size, age, registration, sire and dam)

Music(no matter what it is, I find it all annoying, but I realize this is a preference thing)

Site is hard to navigate

Not updated(I love seeing sites now that announce their 2008 show strings . . .)

I like to see sellers honest about what they have. If I see horse that isn't put together well and it's described as a halter champion I am going to assume the seller doesn't know much and I will move on.

When horses are advertised as world and regional champions(without disclosing the fact that the championship was in color or pairs class or the horse was the only one in the class)

My BIGGEST pet peeve is reading about how the horse is a great great grandson of buckeroo/rowdy whatever like it is worth so much more because of that. I care about the individual, sire, dam, full siblings, and maybe how the full siblings are producing, I don't care that it's a double grandson of so and so or whatever.

In general, I want it to be easy to find the sales horses, and easy to find the info, contact, etc. If I have to work too hard I am just going to the next website.

These are just my opinions of course.

 

[GrandmaC]

It's generally a buyer's market out there. There are many more horses for sale then there are people looking. Some buyers will say that they don't NEED to sell a horse so they won't budge on this or that and they can just keep the horse and wait for the next buyer. My opinion on this is OK, keep it, plenty of other horses out there to buy, but there are NOT plenty of other buyers, at least right now . . .

In all fairness and honesty I wish it could be an 'everyones' market where good buyers get good horses at a good price and sellers get a fair price and feel happy.

And where sellers can make an honest living doing the thing they enjoy and love (the horses) and be able to pay for their habit (and the hay and vet bills) without having to dip into the family funds (like you husbands paycheck)

My BIGGEST pet peeve is reading about how the horse is a great great grandson of buckeroo/rowdy whatever like it is worth so much more because of that. I care about the individual, sire, dam, full siblings, and maybe how the full siblings are producing, I don't care that it's a double grandson of so and so or whatever.

Oh I hear you. Once I was looking for a QH line (Jesse Jame) and I came across an ad 'Jesse James bred'

Called the lady and asked who the mare was out of and who she was by? (top and bottom line) That went well

Then who the dam's dam and sire was and the sire's sire and dam, when we finally came upon and completed the 4th line

That I said and I quote. ' No offense but you advertised this mare as a Jesse James bred mare, can you tell just where the H*** the Jesse James comes into this pedigree? ' Heck it was 5 and 6 lines back. I politely ended the conversation.

 

[victoria]

Well I have to agree with Andrea. Some people make it so hard to buy full stop. As someone who has just brought a horse from a really great gal, Sent honest photos, honest video and was all ways good enought to answer my 100 crazy questions and help with the export. All of that was made into no big deal. When video was requested it came when it was promised, the same with photos etc. I can tell you it was not all smooth sailing while looking. I got the distinct feeling that some people thought as we were from New Zealand we were either scammers or tyre kickers. Of which we were neither. Getting photos from some people was like getting blood out of a stone, some never bothered to reply to any emails, and any video footage at all I almost had to beg for. I did meet several farms - many who are forum members who were great and helpful and I would definately approach again when looking.

 

[MindyLee]

Im really happy you post the topics you do as they are very interesting, helpful, and answers questions I have but never think to post as well.

I took into concideration about websites and I just wanted to ask what you or others think of mine?

Now I have last summer pics of my minis on it BUT was wondering if my website is not annoying to the eye and gives good info about each horse I own?

I am somewhat new to minis and think Im only a couple yrs ahead of you and just wondering if Im on the right track when it comes to sharing my minis for others to enjoy on my website!

Dont worry if something could be improved on, just let me know as I can handle it and like the honesty.

THANKS!

I too agree with all above with pet peeves on some stuff except the "private treaty" part. I believe that if someone wants to keep a sale private then thats fine too. I personally dont believe that it maybe because of a high $$$ price at all times.

As for adds with no pics, I am totally guilty for that one! BUT I cant post pics from my computer because when I 1st bought it I messed something up which inables me to post pics for some reason. BUT I always put on my adds "email for LOTS of pics" So would that keep someone from being interested and pass over my add?

 

[Katiean]

When I was looking to buy. Actually both times I bought off the internet. I would Contact owner after owner for them to say "Oh, that horse is sold". My emails would read something like; "I saw your yearling filly Miss Bell listed on your sales page. Are her legs strait? does she have a good bite? Can I see a pic from the other side?"

Only to get a return email "Sorry, that horse is sold".

6 months later the horse is still on the sales page.

This makes people want to tell others that you list horses you do not have anymore just to fill up your sales page. I never looked at another horse from thous sellers even though they listed on other sites after my inquiry.

 

[GrandmaC]

Here is my idea of a near excellent website.

1) All horses on the sale page are actually still for sale?

(sold horses can be put on a sold site so people can see what you have produced, yet are not available)

2) A page for each horse showing pictures of front, back and each side.

(If the horse is older, thumb nail click on to enlarge picture of the horse as a weanling and a yearling.

and either pictures or links to what they produced if they are a stallion or mare, video, )

THIS to me is a near excellent sale page

http://www.heavenlyp...m/43289y09.html Pictures of all sides and a video and it's pedigree.

Here is another page of theirs for foals that they have not done a video for but look at the page and the pictures:

Note first the sale page and how you can click on each foal for their own page

http://www.heavenlypony.com/sales.html

The clicking on the first foal, a picture of it from all sides and it's pedigree

http://www.heavenlyp...m/40619y10.html

Note this near excellent stallion page, his pictures, his video, his pedigree, his achievements and some of his get.

http://www.heavenlypony.com/38933.html

DISCLAIMER: I do not know the people of Heavenly Ponies nor do I even own Welsh Ponies.

Someone showed me their website a while back and I truly admired the site.

IMHO Heavenly's web site screams YOU gave me all the info I needed, I got to see

as much as humanly possible without coming in person, WHO do I make the check out to?

With a site like this imagine how much time you'd save emailing and answering questions and picture? You can spend a day or two (8 to 16 hours on a great web site (or pay someone to do it) that included several horses or you can spend 30 to 60 mins emailing and calling back and forth on say 10 foals x 5 to 10 prospective buyers = 25 to 50 total hours over days or weeks?

3) Their true 'no dicker sticker' price (of course there is always room for breaks for a multi purchase deal

or at least if it's not your 'no dicker' sticker put the word 'negotiable'

4) A persons 'sale policies' page

5) Less sentiment, the ohh, ahhhh I don't really want to sell them but ^%%##@# bla bla bla bla

6) Temperament level like shown on Dreamhorse pages

7) Each horses achievements is applicable.

8) Buyer friendly, easy to navigate.

Need to go run and feed puppies will add more later.

Other nice sites with lots of info on each page

http://www.gypsyvanner.com/sales/ Don't know them either.

 

[GrandmaC]

One of my posts was deleted, something about breaking a rule or something.

I don't intentionally break rules, if I offended anyone with the examples of what I consider buyer friendly website sale pages

I apologize. It was simply an example. Lots of people have their web site attached to their signature. I'm unsure where posting examples is breaking the rules. Even put a disclaimer that I did not personally know the people.

Again, if I offended anyone I'm sorry and I would appreciate if the main mod person would contact me privately to discuss this matter.

I'm sure there are several mods, Respectfully I'd like to talk to the head mare in the barn

Thank you.

Update: After re reading the rules, I can see where it 'could' be that I broke a rule.

Please note those examples of web sites that I had posted earlier were just examples of what I considered to be 'buyer friendly, easily navigated sites. As an example, not for any other reason. I don't even know the people. Again my apologies.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Hey Carol!

Guilty as charged on all counts! Website is outdated, photos need updating badly, and the whole site is being overhauled this month as it's migrating to a new domain server.

What you describe is I assume most of ours ideal marketing tool. Having come from a marketing background and former real estate sales - I really don't want people to call to kick tires! I'd rather have all the information out there so only the serious inquiries are made.

I have 'planned' for a couple of years now to have the perfect webpage for each horse with side/front/butt/teeth shots with a video clip, all the pedigree/registration/sire&dam/produce records perfectly legible on individual pages that load fast too!

It's not difficult, and I'm 65% there on most. But it is time consuming. Coming from someone that can butcher a horse with a camera. Getting those gorgeous photos is a lot of work! Either you spend a fortune on a professional or it takes 2-3 people minimum to prep and photo them. I'm not making excuses but taking photos of animals is not like photoing a car or bowl of fruit!

I do appreciate your honest and straightforward manner as there is definitely room for improvement on the majority of websites I have visited. It is a good reminder (and a nice kick in the pants!) to remind me what I need to do to properly market my horses.

Look forward to reading more of your contributions here!