Foaling

[alphahorses]

I found this very disturbing, as the way this mare is being "helped is very dangerous for the mare.

I know there are a lot of people who are new to foaling on this board, so I'm posting this not to criticize the person in the video, but in hopes that someone can learn from it.

You should never pull a foal when the mare is not pushing during a delivery that is progressing normally! You can see that the mare is not pushing most of the time that he is pulling.

Also, pull down, not straight out, and please, don’t let your mare foal in a stall with dirty wood shavings.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I went and had a look at the comments on You Tube- gosh it is a strange place these days!!!

Anyway, this was a nice catch, the "How not to" video of the year, I think!!

 

[ohmt]

Oh that poor mare! I can't believe they posted this video on youtube-so awful.

I also read the comments and have to agree with rabbitsfizz. Horrible that are many people who think that's the way to 'help' the mare. Loved the comment that said "He helped pull out the fowl because it makes it less painful for the mother. If youndint know what you're about don't make any remarks about it"

 

[supaspot]

poor girl , it makes me worry about the mares we sell , I hope they never end up with an idiot

 

[Reble]

I have a different opinion, you have to go straight out until the shoulders have past, than you go down..

Looked like she was having a problem not out too much, so you do excited, and want to help, her leg kept straightening out so that looked like contractions to me.. but I am not the expert. Just glad to see the foal alive..as you also notice he was wiggling the foal, that is usually a sign of being stuck..

 

[sedeh]

OMG!! I can't believe they posted this to Youtube. He's lucky the whole uterus didn't prolapse the way he was yanking on that foal! People puleeeze! Wait for the contraction and apply gentle downward traction.

 

[uwharrie]

My only comment is it is quite possible the mare was so tired she could no longer push, in which case pulling the foal out by any means is less risky than waiting for contractions that may never come.

It looks to me like the guy first pulled out in order to free the other leg and head and then pulled down.

Not knowing how long the mare had been in labor when the video started it is hard to say the person was doing right or wrong. (though I do agree the foaling area should have been A LOT cleaner!)

 

[tagalong]

I have a different opinion, you have to go straight out until the shoulders have past, than you go down..

You should always be pulling slightly down towards the hocks - not straight out... especially with the shoulders as they are the tightest fit...

 

[OhHorsePee]

OMG! How sad is that!??! Could you imagine being that mare? She was in no distress when he went in there and seemed to be progressing well. Why on earth would anyone interfere in a normal delivery and risk the mare and foal by forcing the labor? And as for the shavings... What a way to get a bad infection going! Only pull with contractions and towards the hocks as suggested.

 

[Miniv]

The video showed the water breaking, so her hard pushing would have started from there.

Here's my take on what was shown.......

1. The chipped bedding was obviously used and was all wrong, as most breeders know. They should have rushed in with either straw or grass hay as soon as the mare showed labor. We prefer grass hay. If someone claims that they may not have had time, I will come back with -- well, they had time to grab the video camera.

2. I also feel the foaling attendant was too aggressive (the foaling looked like it was presenting normally), he didn't work WITH the mare's contractions (which risks internal tearing), and he didn't pull DOWNWARD. (Horses are not cows!) Pulling straight out can tear the vaginal lips as well.

3. The attendant also was too aggressive with pulling the foal away and out of the birth sac which broke the placenta too quickly in my opinion. We like to allow the placenta to remain connected for as long as possible until either the foal or mare jumps up and breaks things. The foal benefits from the added blood flow.

4. The ONLY things I approved of was dousing the navel very quickly, placing the foal on some sort of towel or blanket which I HOPE was CLEAN (we use a clean sheet), and rubbing the baby with some sort of towel (which I also hope was CLEAN).

We didn't get to see how quickly the foal stood and nursed..........That would have been nice and a relief that all ended up okay.

 

[ruffian]

I don't think the bedding was "used" We have a place here that chips wood and it looks just like that when it's fresh. It's not the pretty bright yellow shavings most are used to, but adequate bedding.

I didn't see any real yanking, more like keeping pressure on, but he did do some pulling. But we are seeing 5 minutes of who knows how long a labor. Foaling a big horse is a lot different than miniatures. so let's not judge too harshly on seeing a minute bit of a process.

 

[Sue_C.]

Foaling a big horse is a lot different than miniatures.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. A mare in foal, is a mare in foal...same anatomy, large or small. I think way too many people do more assisting than is necessary.

 

[Reble]

Not sure could be wrong but looks like the same horse and owner.

Part two they say..if this is the same..

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Definitely more aggressive than I would be on what appeared to be a normal foaling. Keeping traction and assisting is one thing versus yanking. Other than clearing the sac off the head/legs, I wouldn't have intervened other than putting a clean sheet/towel under as it was being delivered.

The mare couldn't have been in labor very long as the water expelled at the beginning of the video and she seemed quite alert, not exhausted, etc.

I've seen some vary aggressive manipulation of foals over the years (by vets) because of a dystocia, but never on a normal delivery.

 

[Rebecca]

He seems to handle the entire process in a very aggressive, rushed manner. From pulling on the foal to the way he handles it after the birth, everything seems very rushed. The stall looks neither comfortable nor sanitary. Some people....

A sad video, as the mare could have done well without that "help", and I just wish I could see mom and baby content and bonding after.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree with the majority of comments, and, no, foaling a Mini is no different from foaling a BH- a horse is a horse etc, and I have always been the number one interferer of all time, in there from the start, helping, I see NO reason why the mare, who did not ask to be in foal, should do all the work, and take any longer than she has to! BUT and it is a HUGE enormous, BUT I did actually take the time to learn, from an expert, what to do before I started "interfering"

This man was watching from the start...me, I would have been in there- yes the bedding is dirty, mares sometimes do this, too late to move her so...let's get some of those clean blankets under the mares tail, shall we?

Let's wrap her tail whilst she's down, get it out of the way, break that bag, get hold of those (obvious, well presented) feet, and help the mare give birth.

That is what you are there for!

NOT to lug the foal out at the last minute, avoiding a prolapse god alone knows how, and breaking the cord far, far too soon.

Thank goodness we do have a number of classic, well informed, videos up on various mini sites for people to learn from. This one is a disaster form start to finish, IMO.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I always handle things in a very agressive and rushed manner, i know that the quicker the foal gets out the better. You never know when the placenta is detached or partially detached, it does not always present as a red bag. I think this fellow did great, and i saw him pulling at a slightly downward angle as he is supposed to do. When i saw him pulling, the mare was contracting, and i think he did an AWESOME job! another successful live birth!! Healthy Mom and foal, and that is the best anyone could hope for. I would gladly have him at my barn helping me! He definately gets 2 thumbs up!!!!

 

[ohmt]

Sorry, but I would rather have a HEALTHY mare than tear her to pieces just to get a foal out (that was presenting correctly) within a couple of minutes.

**Even with the two red bags I've had, I've never had to pull while a mare was not contracting. This man did NOT pull the foal with the contractions and the cord was broken much too soon.

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

I always handle things in a very agressive and rushed manner, i know that the quicker the foal gets out the better. You never know when the placenta is detached or partially detached, it does not always present as a red bag.

Sorry, but I would rather have a HEALTHY mare than tear her to pieces just to get a foal out (that was presenting correctly) within a couple of minutes.

 

I, too always handle things in a "rushed manner" as I have always been told that the sooner you get the foal out the better and this is from QH & TWH experience and I have transferred it over into the minis as well. However I do believe that it is very important to pull WITH contractions -- no contractions? DON'T PULL and always pull in a downward motion.

So yes, you shouldn't just "dilly dally" but you shouldn't be ripping the foal out either. It's a nice balance inbetween.

 

[ohmt]

Yes, I agree JNK. I have been a vet assistant for 3 years now and am hoping to be a vet here in a few years, so have learned my fair share and have seen plenty of horrible as well as successful births. The vets I work with all give a mare about 10 minutes (there are of course a few exceptions to this). If she isn't progressing well, they will help her along, but never before that. Being aggressive is a big no-no though. The only time I've ever seen a vet get aggressive is during a dystocia and even then their priority is always to make sure the mare has as little internal damage as possible.

My mares are always my number one priority. Of course my goal is to have both mare and foal happy and healthy at the end, but I will absolutely not compromise my mares in any way-that means I will not get aggressive just because the placenta might be detached or partially detached.

ETA: I realized after I reread this that it sounds as though I'm saying people who are aggressive don't have their mares health at heart, which was not what I was trying to do. I do realize that people who get aggressive are trying to get the foal out as quickly as possible to help both mare and foal. I, however, don't believe doing so before 10 minutes if all is going well up til that point is the right way of going about things. That's what I was trying to get at. So, not trying to step on toes, I promise!

It's finals week...stress and lack of sleep are kicking in!