Fat minis and contradictory farrier advice

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Calico

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Today the farrier came to trim hooves on my two minis. I was at work so my dad was the one who was home to meet the farrier- I didn't speak to him myself. When I got home, my dad told me that the farrier had been concerned about my horses' weights. Now, I know my gelding is fat. I had asked the farrier the last time he was out (2 months ago) how he thought my gelding's weight was, and he'd told me that he was a little fat but that there wasn't too much I could do about it and that minis are almost always a little fat. Now 2 months later, he's suddenly worried that he's overweight to the point that he could easily founder.

The thing is, I'm doing everything I can to take care of my two horses the "right" way. I'm a new horse owner-- I've had the gelding for just a week or two shy of a year now, and my filly since spring. I'm still learning. But most of what I know, I learned from places like Lil' Beginnings and other mini-specific websites. Some of the things the farrier told my dad contradict what I've previously heard. My farrier obviously has much more horse experience than me, and even has a few minis himself, but I wanted the opinions of the knowledgeable folks here before I took all of my farrier's advice. There are a few points I'd really like opinions on:

1) I'm feeding them too much. Everything I've read said that horses should have hay available at all times to keep their digestive systems running well. Every morning and every evening, I fill two regular-sized Busy Horse slow feed bags with orchard grass hay for them. (About 3/4 flake per bag, roughly.)They get no grain, and almost never get fed treats. I do feed them each 1/2 cup of ration balancer (Enrich Plus) twice a day. They don't totally pig out on their hay. Sometimes there's still hay left in the nets when I go to refill them. They're on a dry lot, so no pasture or additional source of food.

Should I be cutting their hay ration? It seems like I'm feeding them pretty basically and minimally as it is....The farrier told my dad that he feeds 4 full sized horses one flake twice a day. (That's one flake for the 4 of them to share, not one flake each). That seems like very little, so I'm a little wary of taking his advice.

2) Exercise isn't going to help. The farrier basically told my dad that exercise isn't going to help my minis lose weight. Since I've noticed my gelding getting fat, and haven't felt like there was any way I could cut their food rations, I've been making an effort to get him out for walks and jogs as often as possible. It's not every day, because I have a physically demanding full-time job, but I do what I can. I can't imagine that exercise wouldn't help. But again, the farrier is the one who makes his living by dealing with horses, and I'm just a newbie.....

I also find it kind of funny that 2 months ago, the farrier wasn't concerned about my horse's weight, but now all of a sudden he's concerned. I don't disagree that my gelding, especially, is definitely overweight. Like I said, I've been doing what I can with exercise and what I thought was a standard mini feeding schedule even before the farrier mentioned anything.

So, what are your opinions on the farrier's comments? Is he right? Or is there a different way I should be going about getting my horses back into shape? I really want to take the best care possible of my minis, and I'm here to learn!
 
Post a picture of the horse with his head up off the ground in a natural position
 
Regardless of your geldings weight, in my opinion, your farrier is wrong and you are right. To stay healthy, horses need to trickle feed, so having their hay from 'slow feeders' is ideal and I would not be reducing the amount you are giving to any extent. It is a proven fact that horses given 'restricted' feeds can actually harm themselves by then bolting down what is on offer - this is especially proven with those offered restricted grazing on grass, with those (fully fed with hay and grain) being allowed 3 or 4 hours restricted grazing actually consuming more than those with 24 hour unrestricted pasture - those restricted 'stuff' themselves as fast as possible instead of steady trickle feeding over the 24 hours.

Exercise is of great importance and will certainly help with any weight problems, so do continue to give your tubby boy as much as you are able with your work schedule. How large is your dry lot? If you have your water supply at one side/end, then put your slow feeders the far end - one in each corner - as this will encourage movement between feeders and water, instead of everything being in one spot. You could try a good quality mineral and vitamin 'lick' instead of your balancer, but basically I think you are doing well with your minis.
 
Sheesh, my three get one flake between them, I can't imagine full sized horses getting one flake unless it's one of those mega bales!

You're doing fine.
 
I do pretty close to what you do on my two geldings. One I think needs a little weight over his back. The other is fat and mostly stays fat no matter what I do, but what helps for my porker is that I add either remission or quiescence to the fat boys feed. These supplements help smooth out the fat pads, reduce the fat on the neck and helps keep the neck from being cresty.

Right now my boys are shedding summer hair and getting winter fuzz and it sticks up and makes the coat look thicker and my boys are starting to look heavier as a result of the hair beginning to get fuzzy. My boy looks heavier than he did a few weeks ago and I have changed nothing...

So, my suggestion would be to consider remission or quiescence if they are truly fat.

Posting photos will get you some help from here deciding if you need to worry or not. Crouch down when you shoot your picture and get level with the horse rather than shooting as you stand which will make your horse look short legged and chubby in the photos.
 
In my experience, many "professionals" have a paranoia about small horses being overweight. What they would see as ideal in a quarter horse, they are horrified in a pony/miniature. And any "professional" who tells you exercise makes no difference is out of his mind.

Any way you could take your hroses to a public scale, such as a grain elevator, to be weighed? My vet has a dog scale which my horses can stand on, but I have taken them to the public scale before. That is a true way to tell if your horses are too heavy.
 
First of all the only one who can give you professional advice is your veterinarian. A farrier knows how to work feet, but your vet can tell you if there is a concern about laminitis.

Second of all if you can give free choice hay that is ideal, but I know I cannot do that with mine. I have to control their food intake, they are just straight out on pasture but I bring them in to dry lot them so they won't "blow up". Minimially horses weight 200 lbs should get at least 4-6 lbs of hay a day, and minis weight 300 lbs 6-9 lbs and that's on maintenance.

Lastly the reason I say that your farrier doesn't know much when he says exercise won't help, thats complete bull. Exercise is good for anybody or anything. So please if you are at all concerned about their weight go to a professional and that would be your vet.
 
I measure my horses "heart girth" and keep track and I can tell if they are gaining or losing and there is a conversion from inches to pounds for approximate weights. The horse tape measure does not aprox. the weight of minis accurately.
 
Your farrier is an IDIOT and if he's really feeding his full sized horses that little, he's starving them. Even one flake per big horse per meal isn't enough!

The average weight in feed is 2 percent of their approximate weight, then adjust from there. We weigh our flakes whenever we get new hay. An average flake (and yes, it varies) is 4 lbs for us.... That means a half flake per mini, twice a day. We add grain as needed. That's our program in a nutshell. Oh, and our riding horses are either on full-time pasture or getting at LEAST 2 flakes twice a day! Winter time, everyone gets MORE.

Exercise IS important. All of ours are in a large enough area that they can move and run freely. Folks who don't have that option should take their horse out regularly to trot/run/buck....Humans become Couch Potatoes and Obese and horses also get obese and stove up without moving.

(Did I say the farrier is an IDIOT?)
 
"And any "professional" who tells you exercise makes no difference is out of his mind."

I have to say that I agree with that. Exercise is key for weight loss for ANY creature!
 
I'll second the opinions here. I think you are doing just fine with your feeding. And I totally SECOND the opinion that your farrier should stay with hooves, not giving advice about exercise. Exercise is very important in the great scheme of things, and I think Anna's advice about making sure hay is across from water will help them to keep moving.

PLUS, taking a walk with your horse is great therapy for you AND your horse. Nothing greater than taking a slow walk with a "friend" to talk to.
default_whistling.gif
 
As a farrier who sees over weight minis that are foundered and or worse... I have to say exercise is always a good thing... Never ever pointless. Of the sounds of it.., ur feeding just fine. Unless you have Cushing's going on or diabetes, I'm sure they are not extremely over weight. A pic would def help to see but like mentioned above, farriers do get paranoid. Sounds like that's great he has concerns as most farriers won't say anything at all... But if worried def check with your vet for a professional diagnosis.
 
My farrier pointed out that my one boy was really looking chubby when he was here for a trim.. I didn't take offence, because he was really just pointing out that he thought he saw a difference since he was last here. My farrier is my friend and I really did take a close look at my one boy after he said that. I asked my vet when she was here not long after and she said that my one boy looked great and my one boy wasn't as bad as some other minis she has seen in her practice that are grazed and pointed out that neither of my boys have a cresty neck, but that I should keep an eye on him. I thought both my vet and farrier really were just being helpful and both are used to seeing the results from founder and nobody wants their horse to founder.

best wishes. Measure your heart girth on your horse just behind the front legs and pull snug with a cloth tape measure and post what you get here.

ps, I portion fine clean grass hay all day long to my horses. I try to keep it around 2 flakes each per day. I don't limit hay in winter when it is cold. I don't graze unless it is with a muzzle on.

some exercise is good for all of us. I enjoy taking a walk with my minis. My dogs are getting old and my minis enjoy taking a walk just like I used to be able to do with my old big dogs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just a thought:

I've seen some threads here, in the past, where people beat up on farriers; not sure why. Before you fire your farrier for being a moron/idiot, you might want to check if you can find another.

Apparently in some areas, farriers grow on trees. Not here.

Before we bought, I researched and found a well-regarded lady who had moved a couple states away; well that's no help. Then there was the guy who could excavate my yard and as a side-note, he could trim feet. etc.etc. etc.

I think the best scenario is a farrier that has amenable relations with whatever vet you're using.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The farrier may be excellent with feet, and that is what he is paid for so, basically, that is what he should stick to unless asked for an opinion. I agree there is no reason to sack him, but there is no reason to listen to him, either....
 
I'm no vet and look into mouths to look at teeth and inform if they can use a float or not. Will you fire me as a farrier cause I'm not a dentist? I also do inform folks if something looks like it needs to be addressed or a possible concern that "could" lead to a health concern... I sure do inform folks. I'm not a vet but will you fire me as a farrier cause of that?

Folks will always be insulted no matter what.

I get asked for my opinions all the time. Been fired twice for it. But as a fellow animal lover regardless of being the farrier. If something looks like it should be mentioned... I do so.

Remember everyone looks at their horses everyday... A new set of eyes may see something you don't. However as a farrier I do try to be as respectful as possible when voicing my concerns.
 
I don't think the OP was criticizing her farrier. Her concern was the weight of her horses, which her farrier commented upon. As posters, some of us jumped in to criticize the farrier for saying that exercise wasn't useful/necessary for weight control.

My farrier quipping that I should be turned in for animal abuse because my horses are starving (NOT!) does cause me to look at them critically for their weight, and I certainly appreciate his taking the trouble to look at the whole horse and not just the hooves.

Also, if we as clients criticize our farriers because they give an opinion, they will probably stop giving opinions and some conditions may not be noticed by us. I think the OP acted appropriately by questioning the statement and asking for more advice. We all listen to plenty of advice and have to weigh it all and decide what works for us and our horses.
 
No if you think your farrier is doing a great job at what he is suppose to do then no don't get rid of him. Just take his advice and go on and if you are concerned about a potential health problem just take it up to your veterinarian.

Yes the advice this farrier gave is wrong as to what needs to be done and his comment on exercise. Is the horse fat, we don't know, we can't see him in person, that's something for the vet to determine as he/she is a health care professional in the animal field.
 
Most opinions here are on track.
default_firstprize.gif
My first thought was FIND ANOTHER FARRIER.
default_torch.gif
And I definitely agreed that a good veterinarian is more the expert on weight than a farrier. If the the farrier is doing a good job trimming your minis (and since you are new, perhaps finding some references on him/her would be nice) than, of course keep him-but use the vet for the quality information on their feeding and weight.
default_thumbup.gif
And-YES, exercise WILL help bring weight down. Same as with people-proper diet and excercise makes a better body and health.
default_yes.gif
 
I still would love to see pictures.

Maryann you crack me up
 

Latest posts

Back
Top