Fat Mini?

[Carly Rae]

Hi,

So some of you may already know Snickas, I have thought she was pregnant but I am so confused. I don't know if she's pregnant or really fat I have had her off grass for 4 days now and her belly only went down the tiniest bit. I am not convinced she is in foal any more but I am not sure, no one has seemed to reply to my topic about her being in foal, only a couple of replies I am not sure if its because no one can help me or if no one is seeing my topic, but yeah.

So, she has been off grass for 4 days now, she has been getting a lot of exercise and is on Lucerne hay. She has just had her hooves trimmed so we can start regular exercise, Her exercise consists of lunging, running my little 'course' I made up that has small jumps and trotting. She is a very healthy little filly and is 3 years and 8 months old and is 35 inches tall, she loves running and its hard to keep up with her on the lead haha. She has been a big mini ever since we got her, when we got her in Sep 2014, we actually thought she was in foal from a stallion at her old home, so I texted her old owners and they said they have no stallions so she wasn't in foal they just said "she is a little fatty."

I don't like the size of her, every time someone comes over they say "Wow your horse is fat!" or "What on earth has that horse been eating! She's Huge!" and those are not compliments that make me feel good as her owner. She is great at jumping but I make the jump lower than she can actually jump because when she jumps higher it sounds like its straining her legs from all her weight being thrown over the jump and onto the ground (you can actually hear it when she hits the ground when she jumps higher and it doesn't sound good) and I don't want to risk injuring her.

So here is some Images from when I first out her on her 'diet' and from today and she is still really big

Day 1

Here's from today after exercise

Please if you know anything about her weight, like if your minis haver ever been like this. Or could this just be how she is? If this is how she is does it affect her? Or could she be in foal?

Thanks!

 

[chandab]

What does she feel like under all that hair? Put your hands on her and feel through the hair. How easy or hard is it feel ribs, spine, and hips.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

It has been FOUR day. I bought a stud that was so insanely obese he couldn't trot. It tools four YEARS to get him truly healthy, give it some time. If you are truly worse she is pregnant, call a vet.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

Four days won't make her thin. Boone replied because they can't tell from those photos. You need a vet.

 

[Carly Rae]

How much are vets for you? They are really expensive here

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Those people are certainly rude, making such comments about her weight! Just reply that she is "not fat, she is fluffy".

Do you have a public scale near you? The only way to know for sure what she weighs is using a scale. As was mentioned, if you can feel backbone or ribs, but with full coat that is sometimes hard.

She didn't gain weight in 4 days and she won't lose it in four days. Be careful cutting back her food to much too quickly as this can be deadly for her.

The exercise will be very helpful as it will help tone her muscles.

The farrier can tell a lot about her general body health from her feet. Did he have any comments?

She is beautifully groomed! You have her looking gorgeous. I do not think she looks that heavy, but full coat is hard to tell sometimes. Don't worry too much. Just feed her sensibly, keep her moving, and she will be fine. If she is in foal, you will find out in due time. Keep visiting the Mare Stare forum for signs to watch for.

Our local vets here are very reasonable, but price certainly varies from location to location.

 

[Carly Rae]

Thank you

You can feel her ribs if you bit a bit of pressure but just patting her you cant feel them I haven't checked her back bone but I will tomorrow. How much should I be feeding her? I haven't cut it back to a tiny amount but a bit of Lucerne hay and I let her graze for a little while of an afternoon after we do an exercise then she gets put away again and I groom her before 'bed'.

With the farrier, he is my dad's best friend (is a qualified farrier though) and he just said "Thats one fat horse" He wasn't much help regarding her weight.

Thank you! I try to keep them all looking nice but it is hard because they find any chance to roll haha, I guess horses will be horses

Last time we got a vet out they charged us hundreds of dollars, so I try only get vets out if I REALLY have to until I get my own job. My parents have spent so much money on my horses and I haha.

How long do you think I should give her till she starts loosing weight? I know that its not something you can easily predict but could it take her weeks, months, years to loose her weight so I can put her back out to eat. Also when she gets to a good weight and I go to locking her up of a night will she keep getting so fat?

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

You need a lifelong management plan. Turn out at night rather than the day, or make her a smaller paddock that can be grazed down to bare ground. Minis don't need a lot of grazing they are better on rougher foods. If she doesn't need grain don't give her it. If you think she's pregnant you need to confirm it because she would be gosling soon.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I have found that many professionals (vets and farriers) have an unrealistic idea about weight for some horses. I visited a friend of mine a few years ago; the vet had told her that her miniatures were too fat. Their backbones were sticking up! Lack of muscle tone will make a horse appear too fat. Just because a horse has a wide belly doesn't necessarily mean he is too heavy. Her horses were not overweight IMO, but they lacked protein in their diet and got no exercise. Just because vets and farriers are professionals does not mean they are always right.

Ask your farrier to tell you something more constructive next time. Such as what he sees about her general health from her feet. Hooves tell so much about a horse's health! Ask him to feel for ribs and spine and back up his "fat" statement with constructive comments. You will have more and more questions for him. He will start to pay attention to your opinion.

Every horse owner experiments with feeding and there isn't any one rule for every horse. Different parts of the world have different forages available. We have never seen Lucerne in my area, but you probably never see bermuda. Or blue stem. I believe in a good supplement. It is usually expensive, but lasts a LONG time since only an ounce or so is fed. I believe in a little alfalfa. I believe in oats. If you ask 100 horse owners what they believe, you will get 100 opinions! You will have to sift through all the opinions and find what's right for your pretty girl.

 

[Carly Rae]

Thanks for that, Ill make up a plan.

So should I just have her graze at night and put off it for the rest of the day? I am at school from 8:20am - 3pm (sometimes get home at 5:30pm unless I catch my bus which I can catch to get home earlier(4pm) and move the horses before dark) Is that bad for them to be off grass for that long during the day or is it better? If i was to do that do they need to be fed through the day'or just water and shade/shelter?

So here is what I was thinking (going by what Rocklone Miniature Horses said) I will put my minis out to eat at about 4pm of an afternoon then in the morning before school I will take them off the grass at around 8am then repeat the same when I get home at 4pm and put them back out (8 hours off grass- 16 hours on grass- I dont know if i worked that out properly) I am sorry if this is not what you meant, If this is a bad way of management please let me know. If there is any suggestions or examples that would be great- I want the best for my minis.

Also when you said 'If she doesn't need grain dont give her it' By grain do you mean the Lucerne hay I have been feeding her? and how do I know that she doesn't need it?

They have currently eaten down the paddock they are in and currently my other 3 minis that are in it have a good weight (still some grass). I wouldn't have a clue whether shes pregnant or not I was just guessing because she was fat but I will look into it.

Thank you!

 

[Carly Rae]

With Snickas I think she does have a fair bit of muscle, she is one strong mini believe me haha. If you look at her back legs under her tail her back legs are spread apart and not narrow so I am guessing that's muscle? I may be wrong but it is very firm and dosent feel like fat. She has such a beautiful little girl and she loves her cuddles and treats, but I would feel a lot better knowing shes healthy, If she looses weight over time I will be sure to add some photos! She has always been big so could that add more time for her weight loss? This is her in summer without all the fluffiness.

 

[Minimor]

Do you have a stallion on your property?

I do not like to see them have nothing at all yo eat for hours on end. When I have some on pasture they are out from 10 am to 2 am. Or--they get hay at 7 am and tgen are out on pasture from 5 pm to 1 am. On that schedule they usually have left over hay to pick at after they come in off pasture, though they generally are not hungry and do not bother with hay until morning.

Lucerne hay probably isn't the best thing for a horse you want to lose weight. Can you get grass hay? Lucerne will have to be very carefully rationed--grass hay would allow you to feed a little more of it giving her more eating time--which is healthier for a horse. Horses are meant to graze for the majority of the day and when you restrict their food they can have issues with colic or ulcers.

In any case those people are very rude--in your photos she does not look obese--she looks well fed (and really does not look pregnant I would say) but not extremely fat. If you can press lightly on her sides and feel ribs--then she isn't horribly fat.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Best I can tell from your pics...your mare does appear a tad 'fat', but NOT grossly so...and since she is in winter coat, that fuzz can be misleading, making one look quite a bit 'bigger around' than it really is!She actually appears quite healthy...and a little extra weight isn't hard to deal with; but as noted, don't try or expect weight to 'fall off' her quickly. A slow, measured drop in the amount she gets is the only safe way for her to GRADUALLY lose weight!

From what you've said, I highly doubt your mare is pregnant, too.

Lucerne is what we know here as alfalfa.If of good quality and well-produced, it is a great feed, but needs to be fed in moderate/controlled quantity, or a horse can/will become 'fat' on it, because it provides such high levels of nutrition/calories. Most minis are 'easy keepers' and especially when not doing some kind of regular work/physical exercise, can easily put on extra weight. Do you have access to a decent grass hay?. Since having an empty stomach for many hours is NOT desirable for horses, some kind of slow-feeding set up would help. Check online; there are now MANY ideas/products...bought or DIY...to set up for slow-feeding, which is a way to slow down how fast a horse can consume its dry forage(hay). Slow feeding doesn't work as well w/ alfalfa(your lucerne), due to the structure of the hay itself(many small leaves which 'fall off the stems' easily); grass hay is far better...but, with serious planning, you should be able to come up with something workable.

I speak from 65 years' experience in caring for horses, most of that WITHOUT access to any sort of pasture, because I live in the Southwestern desert of the US.

 

[Carly Rae]

Thanks for the replies they were really helpful, I will look into getting grass hay instead. They hay is split into sections which we call biscuits(not sure if other countries do) but how much of that biscuit should she have?

 

[Carly Rae]

I have 2 colts on my property

 

[chandab]

The best way to feed is by weight. Unfortunately, I'm not good with metric, so not sure what a mini should weigh of that size. Anyway, the rule of thumb to start with is 1.5-2% of bodyweight in feed daily, while she is on Lucerne, I'd go with the low end, since it's a rather rich feed. So, a 250# mini would get 3.75# to 5# daily in feed; adjusting up or down a bit to account for condition and such.

 

[paintponylvr]

Snickas looks pretty much the way she appears to be built to look. She has a different frame than a lot of "show type" mini horses here in the USA. She's beautiful! And some, built like her, if you take too much weight off, never come back and "look right". Just be careful and take it slow - both in cutting her feed/pasture/forage AND in changing or adding new.

A vet can help with baselines for your horses' health. SO can a knowledgeable trainer or vet tech - even farriers... Are there any vet schools in your area? Some do tours - you can meet prospective vets and ask questions. OR a lot of studying (not just here, but specific again for your "corner" of the world). No discouraging - not meant that way. Does your school have a library w/ equine care books/videos/DVDs - written by AUSTRALIAN authors? Good place to start... Back to the vet - good to establish a working relationship w/ a vet in your area - and learn from them. Keep your questions list (S) going - and when you DO set an appointment - ASK if you can do a bit of time to ask specific questions. BUT you need to limit the number of ?s per visit and make them VERY particular for a subject. Ask for pointers, references, books, websites for more knowledge... Maybe set an appointment to meet with the vet at the clinic to ask some questions. What about Pony Club - don't they have branches of that in your area? UNDERSTAND that there are variables and that EACH person you speak with will still have different opinions - based on what level of experience they have w/i the general horse field, where they grew up and how they interact w/ other professionals throughout their lives.

I agree w/ everyone else as to the ways to manage her - but maybe it's time you start researching info for your area.

Are there truly NO feed stores in your area? No feed producers or Agricultural groups? You might even check at your school? (but then maybe Australian schools aren't like our schools - some of ours, not all, have "Chapters" of FFA - Future Farmers of America - in them). We also have Agricultural Extensions in every state - I do believe (could be wrong, but pretty sure all 50 states here have some type of Ag Extension office). Do you purchase that Lucerne hay or does your family produce & bale it from your property? If your family doesn't produce it, where do you get it? Do they have other hays/forage or feeds/concentrates/grains?

grain
ɡrān/
noun
noun: grain; plural noun: grains; adjective: gr.

1. 
   1.
   wheat or any other cultivated cereal crop used as food. (Me - to include Oats, Barley, Bran, Corn. May be other "grains" - though they may not be utilized in a horse feed)
   synonyms: cereal, cereal crops "the local farmers grow grain"
   • the seeds of cultivated cereals.
     "grain exports"
     
2. 
   2.
   a single fruit or seed of a cereal.
   "a few grains of corn"
   synonyms: kernel, seed, grist "a grain of wheat"
   

**********

Here is one link to get started w/ info - Horses Forages and pasturesIt is from Ontario Ministry of Agriculture (Canada). But there should be something like this in your country and better - in your area.

We are in towns/cities/villages in counties or provinces/parishes, w/i States with regional differences in climate and grow-ability of pasture and grains.

*****

Time to also find an EQUINE mentor - maybe not just for the minis. Someone that can answer you questions w/i the same part of the country that you live in. I'm pretty sure that Australia does produce feeds/grains for livestock.

Here are some of the Feed companies that I found in AU. I don't know what of these are available in your area. W/ the way that your minis look, I'd say maybe they don't need feed/concentrate/grain. But if the mares are pregnant - some things might be necessary? We are deficient in a lot of nutrients in our area and the 20 miles (44 km?) we moved, made a huge difference in our hay/pasture quality!!

Looks like a producer - but also lots of info? Virbac Australia

Mitevite

Hygain

Prydes

James and Son Australia

Barastoc Horse

I didn't go thru each of these sites and look for mini info. Not all feed companies produce a feed specifically for a mini. Personally, I don't like a feed made "just for minis" - but want a feed meant for various stages of a horse life (foal/weanling - 2/3 yrs, performance, broodmare/stallion, senior horses). Sometimes a horse needs more of one product and less of another - while someone else is just the opposite.

Feeding for optimal work/looks is a constant learning game as our own environments change. I CAN"T feed our horses/ponies the same way I fed when I was growing up - different requirements, different environments, different qualities compared to 20-40 yrs ago...

I know that there are breeders of min horses and small ponies in Australia. Some have off and on been on these forums in the last few years.

You have lots of time to learn/study on horses and in 10 years, I'm fairly certain that there will be changes in how we do things!!

 

[paintponylvr]

For me, if I'm changing a feed, I use 7-14 days to change over the feed and then 60-90 days to get a response to that feed. If I don't like I switched to at that point, I have to make the decision to change back to what I was doing previously and if I switch another 7-14 days to go all the way back... So a total of 4 months to see a difference - good or bad. Some things DO change almost overnight, but most don't.

I feed a lot of ponies/horses and I have made changes based on new feeds/specials on pricing coming out. I've tried the feeds. I've found some that I've avoided like the plague and others that I've stuck with for years... I have sold a few horses because they needed special care that I wasn't in a position to provide at that time in our lives. On the same token, I've also provided homes for others in the same situation!

When I was talking to trainers about preparing our ponies for showing, I was told it would be a minimum (again) of 90 days to see differences in hair, coat, condition before they'd show the pony. That was on ones in reasonable condition and it took longer for 2 of ours (who were somewhat "light" to begin with and then lost quite a lot of weight when transported several states away - then weren't happy when they first arrived and were stalled all the time). That was just "fitting/conditioning" not the training part...

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Paula , All of the feed companies you have listed are all reputable companies, that produce top quality feeds . Their feeds are available throughout Australia and in some parts of New Zealand. I am fairly lucky, as I live quite close to several feed stores and I don't seem to have a problem in sourcing feed when i need it. Parts of Queensland can be quite remote as maybe the case for Carly Rae.

I agree with Margo , Lucerne is probably not the best hay to be feeding whilst you are trying to get her weight under control.

To me, she doesn't look terribly overweight, How does she feel across her top line and are you able to feel any ribs?

For me personally, Id be taking her off the Lucerne hay. I gather you are already getting glimpses of the better weather which in turn will mean better quality grasses, higher in sugar content and a lot more of it.

The conditions in Victoria are a lot colder and wetter during the winter months , therefore I need to increase feed and Hay to keep weight on. I Continually feed "Grass and clover " hay throughout the year and If I cant get it for some reason then good quality grass hay is fine. If I need to hard feed then I choose Higain "Zero" (perfect for overweight ponies or laminitis prone) No sugar and low in starch.

Paula is spot on in regards to gradually changing over a horse diet and it will take time for you to notice the difference.

I have one mare that has previously foundered , so she is only allowed out for minimal grazing time and at certain parts of the year she is only allowed out with a grazing muzzle on. Im not a major fan of seeing a mini wear a muzzle, but Id rather see them out , moving around and getting exercise that confined to a dry lot or stable.

All my paddocks have day yards in them , which means they can be confined when needed. Not only for weight issues but in case they need to be confined due to injury ect.

Keep us posted on her progress

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Remember there's a big difference between fat, obese, out of shape, and under conditioned. Your horse will go through a variety of stages before they look gorgeous! I'll show you what I mean - this is all the same filly, a barely 13hh hackney x Arab x ??? That's 2 years old

This is Reba 'out of shape' - where we started. Notice she's not chunky, but she has a bit of a belly, and there's no tone to her muscle at all. She's not thin though either!



This is the same filly after a few months of work. I called her 'under conditioned.' Notice she doesn't have a lot of fat, nor a lot of muscle either. She needed both. Believe it or not she was on good pasture 24/7. She did not LIKE the buggys, or the sun, and ran a lot off. That coupled with work 5x a week made her a little light.



This is Reba in shape! Notice the muscle tone and visibility - all we did was bump up her grain and put her on a trace mineral supplement, and didn't slow up on the work. These are about 1 month after the last picture







And this is after a few weeks off after those other pictures - wasn't her fault I got yet another brain injury. Notice she's not fat by any stretch again, but the time and definition just isn't what it was.

Pardon the bad fitting pad, it was a trial run on that saddle!



So long story short, how long until your mare is toned and defined? A long time, these pictures progress over 8 months.