Examples of "Good Shoulders" On A Mini

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Ok i am not totally sure what I am Talking about here either but this is Alliance Private Bucks, who has my idea of an ideal shoulder (correct me if I am wrong) It slopes across to the point where you can actually see where the bone ends... (yes my line is crooked but you get the idea)

KatiesFoalProject.jpg
 
Yes, Helen, he is a pretty cute little guy. That is not really a good photo to show what we are talking about but you do get the idea. And his little neck looks like it comes out of his chest fairly clean too!

Now......remember we cannot critique other peoples horses without permission!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, I think I'm getting it. Can someone post an example of a not-so-good shoulder?

Edit to post my pet-quality love-of-my-life gelding Cody. I believe this would be a good example of a "not-so-good shoulder" (trust me - NO feelings hurt!!!)

5-05CodyClipped3.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you Vertical Limit for your diagrams you attached. That is exactly what I meant but have never figured out how to post a pic here!!
 
Mini Addiction, yes that is exactly what I am refering to by the slope- from the two points that you penciled in.... the less straight up and down, the better.
yes.gif
 
miniaddiction said:
Carol, not really sure what you mean....
442096[/snapback]

Well, are you are referring to the comment I made about critiquing other peoples horses???????? We are not allowed to post horses other than our own for critiquing without permission. You really did not post the horse for that purpose but if it tuned negative the photo would have to be removed. Now if you own that horse than no big deal.................

I just adore your little lamb! That is too cute......looks like she is a pretty good mover too!
laugh.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just to clear Things up Private Bucks is owned by a friend called Liane Patterson, I have seen him in person and have asked Liane. He is going to be my filly Katies future hubby!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vertical Limit Minis said:
miniaddiction said:
Carol, not really sure what you mean....
442096[/snapback]

I just adore your little lamb! That is too cute......looks like she is a pretty good mover too!
laugh.gif


442102[/snapback]

Thankyou she is my little Tina she reminds me of a show pony when she runs out like that!

Edited to say sorry for getting off topic
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Liz the angle that the pic of cody is taken from isnt the best. In reality if taken straight on from the side I dont think that shoulder is as bad as you think. WHen photos are take from off the front shoulder of a horse it can make a shoulder look very upright. This pic of Sweet Tart shows a very upright shoulder.


f2fbd111.jpg



This one is more from the side and I feel like it looks better sloped.



f369a6f5.jpg


 
 
I promise I'll come on later and post diagrams and pictures with lines! Really I will! But I've got to go out and clip real horses right now. Yes Jill, we are definitely discussing the slope of the shoulder here, not the chest. The chest and how the neck ties in and all that are all related, but right now according to the topic of this post we are looking strictly at the shoulder.

Remember, horses do not have a shoulder joint like we do. Their scapulas are suspended against the ribcage in a sling of muscles and are designed for one motion only: a gliding rotation on a fore-aft plane. So the structures we must look at to consider what is good or bad conformation in the forehand depends upon how we want the horse to move. There are general guidelines, but what one person may consider a good shoulder because they like a high round movement may not be what someone who desires a horse to reach out long and low would like.

Here, according to Dr. Bennett, are some basic guidelines for what does what.

Of all the joints of the horse's forelimb, only the broad ball-and-socket joint located between the scapula and the humerus is capable of side-to-side movement. This allows the humerus to swing not only from back to front, thus raising or lowering the elbow, but also allows the front limbs to cross each other for lateral movements.

While the shoulder blade governs the entire forelimb, the humerus determines the way in which an individual horse folds and unfolds the elbow, knee, and fetlock joints. Whether long and steep or short and horizontal, the humerus determines the style of a horse's front-end movement in the following ways:

The longer the humerus, the more "scopey" the horse's gait since swinging a long humerous results in a greater arc, or scope, at the elbow end of the bone. Scope is defined as the ability to move the elbow away from the torso, either towards the front, as in a jumper clearing a spread fence, or to the side, as in a dressage horse executing a fluid traversale. Scope enables a cutting horse to crouch in front, spreading or crossing his forelegs as necessary to head the calf. Scope is a very desirable characteristic. It has saved the neck of many a fox hunter, trail rider and three-day eventer, enabling their horses to recover from a mistake after committing to an obstacle....

The shorter the humerus, the more choppy the horse's gaits will be. A horse with a short humerus moves with correspondingly short, stiff strides, has difficulty with lateral work and is frequently dangerous to jump. Choppy-gaited is the opposite of scopey.

The steeper the resting angle of the humerus, the higher the horse can raise his knees. This is of obvious importance in choosing a three-gaited, fine harness or park horse, especially when the owner adheres to a policy of natural trimming and eschews appliances in training and showing. The most spectacular natural action is possessed by horses with the following combination of characteristics: a moderately upright shoulder angle (near 60 degrees); a long, steep humerus; and moderately long cannon bones with high knees.

The same combination of factors produces the hunter-jumper who not only folds nicely but can virtually "put his hooves in his ears" in negotiating a grand-prix course. The only difference between the successful jumper and the three-gaited horse is that the jumper needs to have short cannon bones, low knees and substantial bone to preserve soundness through repeated landings.

The more horizontal the resting angle of the humerus, the less natural ability a horse will have for high action or tight folding. A horizontally orientated humerus guarantees that the horse will be a "grass clipper" -- when asked to jump, he will have difficulty raising his forearms to level and may hang his knees.

...To be considered long, the humerus must be at least 50% as long as the shoulder blade. Then look at the resting angle of the humerus. Ideally, the angle between the line of the humerus and the line of the shoulder will be wider than 90 degrees.

And there you have it according to one person.

Leia
 
Jill

I think with Destiny his shoulder is a little more steep I know you haven't seen him in person and may be a while before you do, but He is VERY animated and although he can and has extension what he really loves to do is move like a saddlebred - bringing those knees UP

The steeper the resting angle of the humerus, the higher the horse can raise his knees. This is of obvious importance in choosing a three-gaited, fine harness or park horse, especially when the owner adheres to a policy of natural trimming and eschews appliances in training and showing. The most spectacular natural action is possessed by horses with the following combination of characteristics: a moderately upright shoulder angle (near 60 degrees); a long, steep humerus; and moderately long cannon bones with high knees.
Edited to add this picture of Destiny. I love him and actually personally love the way his neck comes up and his shoulder, but I think his might be a little more steep than the 90 degree.........wish I had a good trotting pic of him when he breaks level.

f3eb2dbb.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I gotta say, this is TOUGH with photos for me. I have a heck of a time seeing the angles, and on the same picture, I may see good one second and steep the next. For example the appy, I can't see angle past the pattern. And with Carbon (who I think is stunning) I can't see angle with the white. I can do this 'hands on' when I can touch and feel the structure (maybe too many years in the dog show world where judging is done more hands-on?). Does anyone else have this problem, or do I just need to take a trip to the eye doctor?

Suzanne

(at that age where it's entirely possible I need reading glasses)
 
This is LeLe, and even in her fuzzies you can see her shoulder. Forgive her broodmare belly and look at the shoulder angle. She has one of the best set of shoulders I have seen in the Miniatures (in my very humble and amateur opinion
smile.gif
). And can this girl MOVE! This mare not only moves upward, but very far out in her reach. If she wasn't 18 years old and developing cataracts, I'd train her to drive in a heartbeat. I really need to get this girl clipped up and take some decent pics of her, but these are all I have at the moment so they will have to do. And she's not high in the rear... we simply do not have a flat piece of property on our whole 110 acres.
wacko.gif


~lele5.jpg


~lele2.jpg


~lele6.jpg
 
I am like Carol, I LOVE a good neck set (one of the first things I look for (other than good legs) when I am adding horses to my herd or breeding) I want it to come UP out of the shoulders...
yes.gif


And these are all just photos taken by me (or my dad), nothing spectacular but shows the horse as they are ......around the house or at the shows

I LOVE my Takers (Cross Country Take My Breath Away's) shoulder and neck set.

f34db592.jpg


Here is a baby picture of Erica's I've Got Angel Eyes and a grown pic, and I love hers also........

f427972c.jpg


Erica's Cloverbud

f39ee711.jpg


Erica's RFM Spring Thunder - (thinner here than I like - as she is a taller yealring and took awhile for her to really condition - this was in May and now she is getting there) But I love her neck/shoulder also.

f3eb2da3.jpg


Erica's Knock Your Socks Off -

f6aa9c47.jpg
 
Erica, have to say you do have some of the best set on necks! That Spring Thunder is phenomenal and the others aren't bad either..........
laugh.gif
(Hi Taker!
wub.gif
)

But when I look for a show horse......one that I consider will be competitive on a National level, my eye is always drawn to the front end first. If the front end is not there then I can't get any further. Yes, I do have to have a back end also but to me it starts with a fabulous head and neck.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Back
Top