equine illness

[Mini~Madness]

Equine Illness

Original post:

Calling all vets: What equine illness starts off with colic like symptoms then gets worse with the horse losing body function (urination & pooping). No eating, drinking... Very lethargic and mopey, but still have good color (wet pink gums & white eyes)... What does this sound like to you & once the horses have been put out of their misery how would you go about protecting other horses that they may have come into contact with before it was known they were sick?

~~~ later added info:

Oh guys... I love you all. Why would any of you think a vet would have not already been involved? - a vet was called all horses saw a vet three times over the course of when colic symptoms started (11/21/12) and also as the symptoms got worse it was back to the vet and each time it was the same their color is good, they just have a tummy ache and they will pull out of it... Give banamine as needed for pain and let me tell you they were in pain and put in a round pen to allow fresh grass (supposed to flush out toxins & make them "poop like a goose" (their appetites were light at this point, but they were still eating not pooping or peeing though) and we were also told to give each horse a pint of vegetable oil (to help things pass).... The first horse died 11/27/12 & the other two followed 11/28/12. Obviously my own vet has no clue how to tie his own shoes so I pose the question to you? What illness could have possibly swept through my herd and how can I keep it from getting the other horses? As of right now the remaining horses appear normal no outward appearances of illness or anything... I'm gonna disinfect the barn, stalls, water / feed buckets and surrounding area the best that I can... I think I'm still in shock over everything. I just need guidance & prayers... No bashing please I am mentally at the end of my rope. My fiancé and I literally have done EVERYTHING in our arsenal of knowledge as well as EVERYTHING we were instructed to do by the vet to keep these majestic creatures alive. We have LIVED in the barn. It just wasn't enough unfortunately.

 

[JAX]

Oh my I am sorry to read this. First of all I am not a vet by any means but wanted to throw my 2 cents worth in.

Obviously this horse needs to see the vet ASAP. Your vet might have an idea of what tests to run by checking the horse out. They would also know what sicknesses might in your area which would tell you how to protect the rest of your horses. If you have already put this horse down then you should definately have a necropsy done to determine what caused this to happen and how not to let it happen to the others. I had one done a few months ago because i unexpectly lost a 2 year old filly and she was in with 8 other minis and i wanted to be sure that the others would not just die on me as well. I was lucky and it was not any type of sickness but it was still heart breaking. I am sorry you are having to go through this.

 

[Minimor]

I'm not a vet, but a horse owner with many years experience and some very odd illnesses to deal with--and I'm not much help because I've never seen this particular combination of symptoms. I do have some questions though--

Are multiple horses affected--it sounds like this is the case? If so are they in the same paddock? Or different paddocks but on the same feed/hay? Are they similar ages, or a variety of ages? Are there any weeds growing in the pastures? Or weeds in the hay? My first guess would be they were exposed to some sort of toxin--either a poisonous weed, or some manufactured poison or chemical. I checked my book but it doesn't list any poisons with those specific symptoms.

I hope you can figure it out & no one else gets sick!!

 

[Becky Horat]

Losing bodily functions? Do you mean they are or aren't working? I would still worry about colic. As colic type symptoms progress and horse becomes much worse (twist/blockage, etc.) they will often become very lethargic and almost progress to next stage, which is NOT good. If colic symptoms persist over 12hrs., it becomes much more life threatening. Usually the gum color is not pink though. A vet can usually give an idea of what may be the cause of this illness or at least if they think you should worry about other horses. I sure hope things work out OK for you and your horse.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

My old boy went this way eight years ago and it turned out to be a massive tapeworm infestation- re-hydration and a dose of praziquantel (and numerous Vet visits, I have to add, plus my changing Vets and his going into the Royal Veterinary College and a bill of over a thousand dollars....) and he was back on course. Without the treatment he would have died. You need a vet...NOW

 

[Mini~Madness]

Oh guys... I love you all. Why would any of you think a vet would have not already been involved? - a vet was called all horses saw a vet three times over the course of when colic symptoms started (11/21/12) and also as the symptoms got worse it was back to the vet and each time it was the same their color is good, they just have a tummy ache and they will pull out of it... Give banamine as needed for pain and let me tell you they were in pain and put in a round pen to allow fresh grass (supposed to flush out toxins & make them "poop like a goose" (their appetites were light at this point, but they were still eating not pooping or peeing though) and we were also told to give each horse a pint of vegetable oil (to help things pass).... The first horse died 11/27/12 & the other two followed 11/28/12. Obviously my own vet has no clue how to tie his own shoes so I pose the question to you? What illness could have possibly swept through my herd and how can I keep it from getting the other horses? As of right now the remaining horses appear normal no outward appearances of illness or anything... I'm gonna disinfect the barn, stalls, water / feed buckets and surrounding area the best that I can... I think I'm still in shock over everything. I just need guidance & prayers... No bashing please I am mentally at the end of my rope. My fiancé and I literally have done EVERYTHING in our arsenal of knowledge as well as EVERYTHING we were instructed to do by the vet to keep these majestic creatures alive. We have LIVED in the barn. It just wasn't enough unfortunately.

 

[Riverrose28]

I'm not a vet either, just an old horse person, usually something contagious would include a high temperature, as that would signal a virus or infection. This could be a multitude of illnesses, some serious, or could be an ulcer.

I a horse is in pain and not eating then no body excretions, or voiding. I'd call the vet ASAP. Also with minis if they don't eat they are prone to liver problems, so you really to to try and get something into this one. Hope you get an answer soon.

 

[Riverrose28]

So sorry to hear this, we must have been posting at the same time. Since it was three horses and I'm sure your vet ruled out an infection or virus, maybe a toxin, but not sure. Maybe Dr. Taylor will check in later with some advice. Sorry for your lose

 

[Carolyn R]

So sorry to hear this. Temp would have indicated infection, a blood panel that would give actual drops or elevations,counts would give a hint as to an infection or illness also. I have had things go both ways, digestive track trying to come to a halt and I have also had hyperactive bowel movements too. It is key to get the body to slow this process down so the horse does not get dehydrated.

Bare, with me, It is possible both horses came down with the same thing, and it is possible they both followed the same course of demise, again, I am very sorry for your loss. I think it is more likely since it affected two horses, that it was a reaction to a plant or hay or something ingested. A horse i had sold several years back had developed issues last week. Lack of appetite, off balance in the back end, lathargic,.....all indications with blood work and observation lead the team of vets to believe she was showing signs of neuro toxicity. She did fully recover with treatment. She is a tiny thing, so it really would not take much as far as toxic weeds or tainted/moldy hay to set things in motion.

Again, I am very sorry to hear of your loss.

I wanted to add that in a case of red maple toxicity here 7-8 years ago, the remaining horsesin that turnout we're treated with charcoal paste and given vitamin e injection to help nuetralize any toxins that may have been ingested, the vitamin e was to boost the body's system. Don't quote me on it, but I think in some cases biosponge can be used as an absorbent, however, this can be a very bad combinatioon if the horse is already dehydrated.

We cut down any of the red maples in the turnout, cut down as manyas possible in the surrounding wood line, give tons of hay in the months they are at risk, and pull them off that turnout until the first few inches of snow come if we should suspect any plants are causing them to be a little off.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Obviously my own vet has no clue how to tie his own shoes so I pose the question to you?

I understand you're aggravated and I have great sympathy for your loss, but I'm sure your Vet is capable. He may not be a specialist, but he would know how/when to refer to a specialist. He would also know when further diagnostic tests would be appropriate. If none of these things were suggested, then I would encourage you to communicate with him what level of care you want and how much you are willing to spend as better care comes at a price.

Signs and symptoms are only a part of a minimum data base for diagnosis; history, physical exam, and general tests (CBC, profile, fecal float) are also an important parts.

I would encourage anyone having multiple ill animals that at least one dies having a full necropsy performed on all that die. Full necropsies should generally be done at a referral lab and include biopsies, cultures, virology, and toxin screens as the pathologist sees fit. Unfortunately, not every necropsy produces an answer, but keep doing them and an answer will come eventually.

I do not know what happened to your ponies, but my differential list would include toxins and viruses.

Dr. Taylor

 

[Mini~Madness]

I understand you're aggravated and I have great sympathy for your loss, but I'm sure your Vet is capable. He may not be a specialist, but he would know how/when to refer to a specialist. He would also know when further diagnostic tests would be appropriate. If none of these things were suggested, then I would encourage you to communicate with him what level of care you want and how much you are willing to spend as better care comes at a price.

Signs and symptoms are only a part of a minimum data base for diagnosis; history, physical exam, and general tests (CBC, profile, fecal float) are also an important parts.

I would encourage anyone having multiple ill animals that at least one dies having a full necropsy performed on all that die. Full necropsies should generally be done at a referral lab and include biopsies, cultures, virology, and toxin screens as the pathologist sees fit. Unfortunately, not every necropsy produces an answer, but keep doing them and an answer will come eventually.

I do not know what happened to your ponies, but my differential list would include toxins and viruses.

Dr. Taylor

******I am aggravated with my vet Dr. Taylor, but I do understand that he is only a mere mortal man and not a magician. The thing is that we were there three different times over the coarse of this whole thing and multiple phone calls and with each visit we were treated like "pesky flies" and basically patted on the head and told as long as their color is "good" then we have nothing to worry about. Well, when the horses died they all still had "good color" so I'm sorry if a little bit of my faith in the man is shaky right now, but it is what it is I guess. This is also the same vet who earlier in the year ultra sounded one of my mares said she was NOT in foal then diagnosed her with cushings 2 months later and a month later a healthy tri-colored filly was born so ???? Talk about your major F ups. But still I guess my whole thing is that these horses had to suffer for a week 11/21/12 to 11/28/12 and I had to basically watch all the while doing what I refer to as "busy work" thinking I was really doing something and that they were on the mend only to have all three die on me, but I do have three more counting on me and I vow not to let them down. I'm not vet bashing Dr. Taylor, but vets are sort of like people doctors. Not all are created equal. Some go above and beyond and others try to get by on doing the minimum. That is just facts. I'm trying to see about getting a referral now for further testing.

As always I do respect your advise. Thank you Dr. Taylor.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Have you wormed them for tapeworms, thoroughly?

If my guy had not been treated he would have died, the liver and kidneys can only do so much. Did you have a necropsy done and if so, what were the results as something like a worm infestation of any kind ought to be pretty obvious....

 

[Boss Mare]

I had an unknown "thing" go through my herd in 2007. I ended up losing six horses. We tested grain, hay and environmental factors such as grass, weeds, trees, etc. Also, did fecal floats for sand and worms. -- nothing.

Bloodwork was done on these horses and the only thing that showed up was a slightly elevated white blood cell count, but it wasn't enough to exactly explain their illness.

Symptoms were -- lathargic, loose stools turning to no poop.

Some of the horses were still eating and drinking and some were not. Another weird symptom of this illness was lack of muscle coordination for lack of a better term. They seemed stiff, especially in their rear. A couple were so bad to the point of falling over when they attempted a trot.

Oddly, I had two horses NEVER effected by this and were perfectly fine -- blood tests didn't even show an elevated white blood count. One horse was a biggie and the other a mini.

All the horses that ended up passing away or being extremely ill were all minis. All of my horses are kept on the same property, share fence lines.

I had two minis so sick we actually had them in slings to keep them from laying flat on their sides because they had no energy. The two that were most ill actually survived.

We treated with two different antibiotics, IV fluids, Gastroguard, BioSponge. And several other meds I can't recall because it has been so many years, if I remember right one was to reduce inflammation in their gut. We did charcoal too to be safe.

I don't have much advice, my apologies. I know exactly how you feel and the loss is devastating. I was left very heartbroken and discouraged.

We did do necropsies on two, one showed up a blood clot in her small colon, but the other showed nothing.

 

[CZP1]

So sorry for your lost of your horses. Doesn't sound like a neocropsie was done so at this point it could have been anything environmental. I think you are on the right track in disenfecting everything. I would find another vet to treat my horses asap in case this happens again with the others (hope not) but you know the signs from the others. I really don't know what is was (is) as I am not a vet but keep us posted if you find out anything else.

 

[targetsmom]

My heart goes out to you on the loss of your minis. Losing one is bad enough but losing three and not knowing the cause is so scary. A necropsy might or might not have shown you the problem, but one thing I learned the hard way was that around here, a necropsy can be less expensive than hiring someone to have the horse buried.

Another thing I learned the hard way is that whenever a mini doesn't eat for a few days, they can develop hyperlypemia (google it) which can kill them. Doesn't seem to matter what caused them to not eat in the first place. There is a blood test and we were able to save one mare that was borderline, but the other one had a higher level and was not saved. This happened to us at the same time and the causes (we happened to know) were totally different but the results could easily have been the same if we had not gotten them to the hospital.

ETA: Hyperlipemia affects all horses but minis may be more susceptible.

 

[wingnut]

I wish I had an answer for you. I cannot imagine the pain of that amount of loss is such rapid succession. I am so sorry.

{{{{ hugs }}}}

 

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

My friend had her riding horse for 3 months before she started showing colic symptoms. They walked and walked her, but she went down hill. They had her on an IV and some other medication,but it didnt help. It also didnt help that she was 10 years older than the old owner originally thought. We thought she was 15, she was actually 25. It turned out that she had stomach ulcers, and a bad case. And they couldnt feed her grain or alfalfa because she was prone to founder.

So, I always call a vet if i see ANYTHING wrong with the horses, even if they are slightly sore or limping, i wont take any chances. Too many horses in my life have died, and I thank God everyday that none of mine have. Not to say you didnt do everything you could for your horses, im sure you did.

Im so sorry for your losses. I dread the day that one of my horses will be gone. It kills me inside. I have seen my best friends go through heck with the loss of their horses, so I have seen how it feels, but I dont really know HOW it feels. Not to say its wrong, but I never say "I know exactly how you feel" at all when anybody is upset about anything because, honestly, I dont know exactly how you feel. Everybody's case is different. But, I understand why people say it. So, please dont get mad at me for thinking that way, its just my opinion.

 

[Mini~Madness]

So, I always call a vet if i see ANYTHING wrong with the horses, even if they are slightly sore or limping, i wont take any chances. Too many horses in my life have died, and I thank God everyday that none of mine have. Not to say you didnt do everything you could for your horses, im sure you did.

Not to be rude (my emotions are raw), I appreciate your sympathy, but did you miss the part where I said I was at the vet 3 times in the span of a week? AND there were multiple calls to the vet where I was ready to have him up or take my horses to him at a moments notice and well HE thought they were FINE & would pull out of "it".... I would have happily lived at the vet & had extensive testing done whatever it took to still have my horses ALIVE and I kept being treated like a pain in the butt who was unnecessarily taking up the vets time. *sigh* Sorry I just had to get this part out. Maybe it wasn't your intention, but to me it seemed like you thought I did not attempt to get medical attention for my darlings.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and prayers. They are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Sawing]

This is just a thought but were the horses on a different feed than the rest of the herd? It sounds like it could be an endotoxin maybe from the corn used to make the feedstuff. There was an issue with dog food a few years ago and several dogs died the same way. Not every dog got sick that ate the food but the ones who did got violently I'll and like I said several died. It ended up being traced to the corn they used. It wouldn't hurt to have any left over food analysised.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Carolyn R]

It is hard to fathom unless you have seen vets in this capacity( or lack there of). I think most vets do their very best, but I have experienced these issues and quite honestly, sometimes they do not want to admit they are at a loss and you need to take your animal to another facility that has more experience.

I love facility I use for my horses, but honestly, several years back, they did have a vet that was lacking in confidence and knowledge. She is no longer with the practice. I had a mini weanling colic and she was the only vet on call. She wouldn't tube her, she wasn't thrilled about putting in an IV, I felt hopeless. the filly had to be put down after a few days. I don't know that the outcome would have been different, but I just felt like a more aggressive course of action should have been taken.

Fast forward to this year, the local sm animal vet could not accurately treat my mini aussie. She was just over a year old, severe digestive issues for several months, went from 16 lbs to 10 lbs, we were contemplating having to put her down. Took her to another vet...she has food allergies ( severe), but is slowly putting on weight and her energyis through the roof now. Their response when I asked them to transfer her records was " well, some dogs with irritable bowel issues end up looking like marathon runners, they just don't put on weight". After4 visits, they just didn't get it, she was starving to death. Same facility decided to start branching out into horses. Told our neighbor her horse's lananitis was due to thrush. Horse, has just a hint of thrush in one foot, virtually no smell or black film at all, had a cresty neck, fat pads above her eyes, was on ten acres of pasture.....I told neighbor I would guess it was related to too much lush pasture and a possible thyroid issue. Had my vet out, did bloodwork,tested for thyroid issues, and that was exactly the issue- lush diet and thyroid, no thrush.

Point being, there are some excellent vets out there. I have had the opportunity to have them care for my animals. Yes, sometimes the outcome was not good, but they were extremely proactive, then,, there are vets that need to step up and be honest when the scope of knowledge is beyond their ability to diagnose. It does an enormous disservice to them and the animals they are treating.