Driving Question

[Celtic Hill Farm]

I have a question about driving, What is it called when you drive the horse and it has a high action gait, and there head is tucked up and in?

http://www.bearbranchranch.com/Graphics/Wi...feather2005.jpg

And when (what i call) "Long and Low"?

http://www.abminiaturehorses.com/img/driving_lb.jpg

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

Bump, dose any one know?

 

[MiLo Minis]

I think you are referring to Pleasure driving for the higher stepping horse or Park if they are REALLY animated and Country or Western if they are less animated and have lower head carriage.

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

Pleasure driving for the higher stepping horse or Park if they are REALLY animated and Country or Western if they are less animated and have lower head carriage.

Ok, so Pleasure Driving, and Park - Is when they have alot of action with there legs?

And County or Western is when they are less animated and carry there head lower?

 

[Jill]

Yes

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

ok cool! thanks! i was like there is a diffrence it idk what the types of driving were, and it was bugging me

 

[picasso]

For Western Country Pleasure, think Quarter Horse Western Pleasure, low and slow. They will have a more straight kneed action with a sweeping motion, not a high lift motion. The Country Pleasure horse will have a higher head set and a somewhat more animated step with their legs.

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

ok, that make since!

 

[ruffian]

The head carriage on a western pleasure horse should not be more than 5" higher than the withers at any time.

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

what about and English pleasure horse?

 

[Alex]

Its just called "Pleasure" not english pleasure. I see whaere you got that, as Western pleasure you'd think there is english pleasure but there isnt. The three main Driving categories are:

Pleasure Driving

Country Pleasure Driving

Western Country pleasure Driving

So, are you asking about a Pleasure horses headset or a Country Pleasure horses headset?

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

Its just called "Pleasure" not english pleasure. I see whaere you got that, as Western pleasure you'd think there is english pleasure but there isnt. The three main Driving categories areleasure Driving

Country Pleasure Driving

Western Country pleasure Driving

So, are you asking about a Pleasure horses headset or a Country Pleasure horses headset?

Ok, So. I'm trying to figure out what categories Aura and Leia would fit in.

Ok, So i'll explain how Aura goes. She carry's her head like a Huntseat horse, nice loose flowing trot. She carrys her head down, on the vertical

And the Leia's head is more up, with her nose tucked in, (like a saddleseat horses carriage) and she has a lot of action.

 

[Alex]

Pictures would help alot, only if you have any.

From your description, I would say that Aura would be a Western Country Pleasure Horse. For WCP, you dont want the head too low, and not vertical.

Does Leia move like the first horse the you posted ( the blk and Wht?) or is it less extreme.

Again, headset can be helped and changed with good hands and such. Natural headsets arent everything.

I wis I could post pics of a few horses, but we arent supposed to post pics for horses we dont own...

 

[Jill]

Ian, one really good place to start is to read the rule books which both describe what the different driving classes call for.

Here's AMHR's: http://www.shetlandminiature.com/downloads...E_BOOK_2008.pdf

And here's AMHA's: http://www.amha.org/rulebook/AMHA-RuleBook.pdf

What I've often done is read what the rule book says, then listen to what members here say, or look at what I saw at a show, etc., and just kind of compile it all together to come up with what I think

For what it's worth (I'm so proud of him...), this is a proof with the print and others on order of mine and Erica's stallion, Destiny, who just won Reserve National Grand Champion in Western Country Pleasure Driving. I think the picture captures why Destiny did well in the class and watching him show, I felt he really fit in nicely with what the judges wanted to see. See the flat kneed extension, loose check, head set...

Prior to the Reserve National Grand in the stakes, Destiny took 4th out of 28 in his qualifying class. He showed only once in harness prior to Nationals, but took both reserve stakes wins out of 15 at that show

Also know that a horse may move at liberty or in halter differently than they do in harness

Destiny appears so "ON" and animated to me in halter classes but was so nice and quiet in the driving

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

Ok, from the last picture posted by Jill, Aura looks like that. Leia is less animated then the black and white mini i posted, but when i put the bell boots on her she is like the blk and wt.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

For WCP, you dont want the head too low, and not vertical.

I've read the descriptions posted for WCP driving on here, and I just have to ask where it says the head can't be vertical? Honestly, that is one of the issues I have with the class, the majority of the horses are going around strung out, nosed out, etc. I know you don't want a highly collected horse in this class, but why must they be nosed out? I know the description says something about a "natural" headset, but I personally took that to mean the horse should be allowed to hold his head wherever it is comfortable for him, without interference from a check or martingale, while moving long and low. I did Western Pleasure with big horses for years, and even their goal was to have the horse's face vertical. I know the goal in WCP isn't to have a horse as highly collected as the horse in my avatar (for the original poster, he's a Country Pleasure horse), but I just always assumed the goal of WCP would be more like a horse softly on the bit, collected, laid back, no knee action, etc. When I first heard of the class, I pictured a horse in the beginning stages of training (coming from a dressage type training background here, so bear with me), moving long and low, but still collected and giving in the face. I realize most mini driving horses are pushed from day one with tight bitting rigs and checks, etc

so they don't get to start long and low and build up, the way I'm used to.

I guess this is why I'm so against AMHA offering any class with Western Pleasure in the name.

I wish I had some of the old pictures of the horse in my avatar from before I started working on more collection, to help illustrate what I mean.

 

[Boinky]

I found for the "most part" that the judges at nationals were picking nice moving horses that were more collected than the pluggy downhill ambling along with nose poked out infront of them horses... of course the horses winnin/placing were "on the bit" (meaning there head was vertical or nearly there and moving off the hindend and listening well to their drivers commands). This is such a new class i dont' think even most of the judges are quite possitive what they are looking for....some of the classes made me go "huh" with inconsistency but for the most part i was very happy to see they were at least still choosing well moving horses. i saw many that were trained to hold their head very low and driving from the front end to the back and just looked aweful. I hope the judges continue to choose for nice movement not the aweful "western pleasure' look of a QH.

My little guy got a 4th out of 9 or 10 in his WCP stake class (yeah so it wasn't a very big class). he's not a pluggy horse, although i can get him to go slow and a bit "pluggy" looking if i ask.... and i debated on how to show him since the classes seemed to be a bit inconsistent in the judging....but in the end i decided to let him move out and push him into the bridle the way he likes to go and is truly the correct way to drive...... He moves much like a nice TB/hunter. He likes to carry himself on the bit and is flat knee'd low headed.... He's rather fast in his extended trot but he moves very long...he has a true flat knee extention. Granted we didn't get first or second but i felt a 4th was pretty good for "winging" it. He also won his class at the Area II national show and got a reserve in that stake class.

 

[mondak]

This horse was winning in WCP classes at AMHR shows near here. While we did not go to Nationals, I think we would have had a VERY good shot.

Here he is at an open show and I have him more collected so I will probably get grief about his head but for the WCP classes his neck is longer but his nose is still on the vertical...I never ask for anything less than asking him to engage his rear (which is hard for him seeing that he is croup high) and stepping INTO the bit.

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

Ok, Thank's Everyone. I rode western pleasure for 5 years, i trained My TB western pleasure. But i HATE when there norses out. That's why i do dressage now. Everyone has helped Thanks!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

For WCP, you dont want the head too low, and not vertical.

I've read the descriptions posted for WCP driving on here, and I just have to ask where it says the head can't be vertical? Honestly, that is one of the issues I have with the class, the majority of the horses are going around strung out, nosed out, etc. I know you don't want a highly collected horse in this class, but why must they be nosed out? I know the description says something about a "natural" headset, but I personally took that to mean the horse should be allowed to hold his head wherever it is comfortable for him, without interference from a check or martingale, while moving long and low. I did Western Pleasure with big horses for years, and even their goal was to have the horse's face vertical. I know the goal in WCP isn't to have a horse as highly collected as the horse in my avatar (for the original poster, he's a Country Pleasure horse), but I just always assumed the goal of WCP would be more like a horse softly on the bit, collected, laid back, no knee action, etc. When I first heard of the class, I pictured a horse in the beginning stages of training (coming from a dressage type training background here, so bear with me), moving long and low, but still collected and giving in the face. I realize most mini driving horses are pushed from day one with tight bitting rigs and checks, etc

so they don't get to start long and low and build up, the way I'm used to.

Absolutely agree on all counts.

i saw many that were trained to hold their head very low and driving from the front end to the back and just looked awful. I hope the judges continue to choose for nice movement not the aweful "western pleasure' look of a QH.

Correct movement is correct movement in any discipline or breed and it should always be from back to front. The head coming onto the vertical is a RESULT of this movement, not the starting point.

Now, back to the OP. Ian, I notice you're in Scotland and I believe your two wonderful equines are donkeys? I know things are different over there and suspect the categories and styles of driving here in the States for registered miniature horses will not apply. We have donkey shows over here with some truly wonderful little animals and from what I've seen the animals are driven in a style appropriate to their body-type and I don't believe they are separated by action like the miniature horses are. I can probably find out more for you if you like but the best place to find information would be your local donkey club or donkey registry if there is one. They can tell you about local driving classes and what's expected as well as hopefully find you a good mentor or some competitions to go watch.

Good luck!

Leia (the human one)