Do You Think EINSTEIN Is A Dwarf?

[Minimor]

How in the world is it ever irrelevant if a horse is being well fed or being cared for properly by the way?

It's irrelevant in any discussion regarding whether or not a horse is a dwarf.

 

[Riverdance]

I'm sorry--but I have to say this.

It is, to me, irrevelent how well fed/well cared for this horse is. Miniature horse people promote their horses as being "true horses in miniature". Some even rant about how they are not ponies, they are horses. They have horse proportions, they move like horses, they are not ponies. But then....here is all this publicity about this tiny little equine. People who ordinarily don't see Miniatures and don't know anything about miniatures or even horses in general are seeing Einstein. So, now when these people hear "Miniature horse" they think of Einstein--that famous little stallion.

What a wonderful introduction to the Miniature horse. Is that what you want people to know of the breed? As I see it, if you grew Einstein up into a 15 hh horse he would look very much like an oversized "pony", a dwarf pony no less.

I find it a shame that this is the Miniature that is being promoted, probably promoted more than any other Miniature horse on this continent.

That is exactly what bothers me. Not that he is a cute horse, but that he is being heavily promoted as a fine example and perfectly proportioned Mini horse. They have said it quite often omht. Now the public heres this, sees him, sees the book about him and now a game about him, the public then believes that this is the standard for a Miniature horse. Yes, I have gotten it quite frequently that people see my horses and are amazed that they are so small and look perfectly like Mini horses. They think all Miniature horses are dwarfs, looking like Einstein.

I'm sorry--but I have to say this.

It is, to me, irrevelent how well fed/well cared for this horse is. Miniature horse people promote their horses as being "true horses in miniature". Some even rant about how they are not ponies, they are horses. They have horse proportions, they move like horses, they are not ponies. But then....here is all this publicity about this tiny little equine. People who ordinarily don't see Miniatures and don't know anything about miniatures or even horses in general are seeing Einstein. So, now when these people hear "Miniature horse" they think of Einstein--that famous little stallion.

What a wonderful introduction to the Miniature horse. Is that what you want people to know of the breed? As I see it, if you grew Einstein up into a 15 hh horse he would look very much like an oversized "pony", a dwarf pony no less.

I find it a shame that this is the Miniature that is being promoted, probably promoted more than any other Miniature horse on this continent.

That is exactly what bothers me. Not that he is a cute horse, but that he is being heavily promoted as a fine example and perfectly proportioned Mini horse. They have said it quite often omht. Now the public heres this, sees him, sees the book about him and now a game about him, the public then believes that this is the standard for a Miniature horse. Yes, I have gotten it quite frequently that people see my horses and are amazed that they are so small and horses. They think all Miniature horses are dwarfs, looking like Einstein.

 

[Lewella]

I know in human you can do blood work to check chromosomes. I assume you can on horses.

There is no genetic test for dwarfism in Miniature horses like there is for humans. That's why you'll see threads like this speculating on if certain individuals are or are not.

 

[minimomNC]

What I don't understand is why so much time is spent on what people who don't know a miniature horse from a standard poodle think in the first place. They probably aren't going to buy a miniature horse and if they do, they will go for the low price low quailty ones in the first place. Someone who truly wants miniature horses will research and see what is correct and what isn't. And as has been said many times, big horse people make fun of minis because of this one example. They think all minis look like this. Thats BS. All of the big horse people that know me, know what a good mini looks like, I show them my champions, I educate them. And if a true horseperson can't tell the difference in a good horse and a bad horse, no matter what the size, then they aren't much of a horse person. As I said somewhere else, I don't have quarter horses but I wouldn't presume all quarter horses horrible from just seeing one bad one. I don't think the entire equine world thinks miniature horses are all horrible because of one little stallion.

 

[rimmerpaints]

There is no genetic test for dwarfism in Miniature horses like there is for humans. That's why you'll see threads like this speculating on if certain individuals are or are not.

thanks I had no idea on this thought since there is dna chromosome testing for humans maybe there is one for horses.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

beauty most certainly is in the eye of the beholder.

And as for Jill's question. Not "rude" in my opinion. Just asking what others think. Jill did not put this little dear out there for the public's consumption. His owners did. If they want the perks of flights around the country, hotel stays, notoriety (sp?), then they should be prepared for the other side of the coin. That's part of anyone's 15 minutes of fame.

Is he adorable? Absolutely. Is he a dwarf? We can't say for sure until there's a genetic test. Does he look like one to me? Absolutely. Would I dare use him for breeding? Never.

Now Thats what I'm scream'in!!!!!!!! I agree with ALL of this!!!!!!

We can talk about him all we want to!!!!! Just like we can gossip about any of the other celebrity's out there that have been on the Oprah show!

My motto is, "If you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen."

I Googled Corona, and they said it should be served with a slice of lime, great suggestion! It was so good i am on my second one!

 

[disneyhorse]

What I don't understand is why so much time is spent on what people who don't know a miniature horse from a standard poodle think in the first place. They probably aren't going to buy a miniature horse and if they do, they will go for the low price low quailty ones in the first place. Someone who truly wants miniature horses will research and see what is correct and what isn't. And as has been said many times, big horse people make fun of minis because of this one example. They think all minis look like this. Thats BS. All of the big horse people that know me, know what a good mini looks like, I show them my champions, I educate them. And if a true horseperson can't tell the difference in a good horse and a bad horse, no matter what the size, then they aren't much of a horse person. As I said somewhere else, I don't have quarter horses but I wouldn't presume all quarter horses horrible from just seeing one bad one. I don't think the entire equine world thinks miniature horses are all horrible because of one little stallion.

Not all people who see this are necessarily non-horse people.

I work in a barn, with draft horses. Most of my coworkers own one or more horses. A couple own minis but most do not.

I had a conversation about dwarf minis with them, they had no idea they existed. I googled them on my phone so they could see more photos of adult dwarves, since the original topic came up when one found a photo of a cute dwarf foal in a magazine.

It's all about breed education and promotion, regardless if they are already horse people or not.

Even with the American Shetland... I always cringe when I have to tell any new coworker that I own a Shetland pony. I know they immediately picture a fat, hairy, cranky pony that looks completely opposite the pony you see in my avatar. I always show them a photo or video of him so they know my taste in horses

And you can't tell me that all "good" horse people are free of breed preconceptions and stereotypes. Most quarter horse people I know are pretty dead sure that Arabians are crazy. Who doesn't think most Saddlebreds are super hot? Well, Many of my coworkers think that minis are cute but are only pet quality, with little other uses. They also think that most are illbehaved because they get away with everything. They see photos of show minis in breed magazines and just say they look fake and the way we razor them and groom them is ugly. That's preconceptions that perfectly rational horse people make, and seeing a tiny dwarf spoiled colt named Einstein does nothing to convince them otherwise.

But anyway, I do feel that one of our favorite breeds (or very favorite) should be represented honestly, accurately, and in as good quality as possible.

Andrea

 

[Minimor]

Someone who truly wants miniature horses will research and see what is correct and what isn't.

Really? All too often people don't do that sort of research. Far too many people buy horses without bothering to first educate themselves on what is good conformation and what isn't.
As for the rest of what I was going to say--Andrea beat me to it!

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Again, I do not have an opinion as to whether or not he is a dwarf. I am not a scientist. I hear the dwarf gene has been isolated, is recessive, would take two recessive genes to be homozygous, yadda, yadda, yadda. Also hear the gene has not been isolated. Not enough info known to know if it is recessive, domininant, hetero, homo, or what, more yadda, yadda, yadda. I love genetics, I really do but honestly I will leave that up to the experts in the field. If there is currently no test to determine if Einstein or any other horse not blatantly obvious to be a dwarf but for good reason dwarfism is questionable I don't have anything to form an opinion on (which only happens rarely, i.e. Blue Moon). LOL. HOWEVER, I have formed the opinion that:

1. Jill means what she says and says what she means. My kind of person who does not beat around the bush. I cannot fault her whatsoever. If she comes across rude, fine. Sometimes people will ignore nice and the point is not taken.

2. Opinions are opinions, right or wrong.

3. After watching a youtube video today I feel the owners are really milking this. "He's so small, just so tiny, his little bones are fragile." For crying out loud, let's just tout them as porcelain dolls. Every little girl should add one to her Madam Alexander collection.

4. The book coming out is capitalism at its best. I am all for capitalism...but give my achey breaky heart a break Einy cannot have just any friend cause him wittle. Miniature horses ARE little and they can buddy up with all sorts of animals. My anatolian shepherds are bigger than some of my horses. Light bulb just came on, maybe I could write a book about the friendship between mine.

5. He has to be a LIBERAL HORSE. He went on THE VIEW today. I will just have to hear about that second hand. There aint enough Jack Daniels in Texas to make me watch that show. Gosh, I hope next we don't have to have him go back on THE VIEW to tell about him coming outta the closet. This is how I feel and even though I could care less/don't know if he is a dwarf I do have an opinion of those "ladies" on that show. Would not let my horse, dog, cat, scorpion, gopher, or barn rat be on that show. But money talks I suppose. Anybody that likes the show...fine by me, watch away, enjoy. You have the right to. I just frankly cannot stand it.

6. Apparently, the Disney thing is true. Went on Einstein's facebook page today and saw something about it. Did not stay on it long due to all the comments from the excited non-horsey people about him being so itty bitty cutie on The View.

7. Who knows if he is the world's smallest horse/stallion? Not everybody registers their horses or calls the news station. I have relatives that have relatives who had 8 pasture bred/pasture born foals in the last few weeks. They do not register. That's their business, not mine. Found out last week they had one born that weighed 10 pounds. Maybe they can get on Springer or Donahue.

8. Lastly, Einstein is related to some of my horses, so we have to love him. He's family. I think his sire is my mare's half brother. Oddly enough the first foal she had for me is 2 years old and only 24 inches tall. Well, really it is not so odd. She had a birth defect of locked up front legs, spent her first six weeks of life at Texas A & M Animal Science Hospital, went through an experimental surgery, had her middle growth plates fused, and steel rods put in her front legs. Her confirmation is absolutely ridiculous, she is tougher than a pine knot (not fragile like Einy), has looks that would mimmick Alf, is so independent she could care less if she has a buddy or not (often found out in her own little corner of the pasture, but every animal here respects her Godloveher little weird self), and can make even your worst day bright with her antics. Never would I promote her as something any farm would want born. But we had the option of giving her a chance or having her put down. Decision and $$$. Her next owner (if ever there is one) will have to show us they can give her a better life than we can. Yep, a sequel in the making. Publicists, writers, directors, c'mon I am still paying on the vet bill.

Bottom line is I do not think he is a dwarf and I do not think he is not a dwarf. I only wonder. If the owners can capitalize on the public being so misinformed about the correctness expected in a mini and become so enchanted like they do over all Disney movies well, what does the future hold? Remember all the Dalmations that ended up at the pound because everybody just had to have one?

You are the "BOMB" Vickie Gee!!!! Watch out for the law suit from me though! I hit my head as i fell in the floor LMAO !!!!!

 

[Jill]

My entire "issue" with Einstein, and the reason I started this poll quite a while back, is that he is such a terrible representative of our breed and is to many people THE face of the American Miniature Horse. I was interested to see if most of us saw him as I do (a dwarf).

If miniature horses were mostly like Einstein, I'd never have wanted to own one. I like miniature HORSES that are true horses in miniature and built to enjoy. It's hard to put so much time, emotions, money, and thought into a quality breeding program (as so many members here have) and feel good about Einstein being paraded around.

If he were born here, there would be changes made to our program and while I don't doubt I'd love him, I would not be proud of what we produced. It would sincerely feel like a kick in the stomach...

 

[rimmerpaints]

I also love the true minis. The ones that look like a miniature Arabian or Quarter Horse. I have seen some pics on this site that if i didnt know they were minis would have questioned especially the pics that are close up show pics. Minis are so elegant. I LOVE THEM. Dont get me wrong dwarf are cute also. I dont have a dwarf and be honest I have never seen one in person just in pictures. I love my minis even though Robbie Ray and Shortcake are probley to fat and Cloud thinks he is as big as a Clydesdale. They are so much fun and I wouldnt trade them for anything! I have to say Im addicted to the minis and if my husband would let me and my pocket book I would have 100's of them!

 

[trickhorses]

I don't know if it's been mentioned on here yet, but there are some horses that the dwarfism does not become apparent until they are much older. My dwarf mare is a daughter of a well known stallion, and this is her as a five year old. ...

Ignore the date, this is her at about 19 yrs old. The roach back is still prominent, ...

Her right after we got her in 2008. I don't have any that show her domey head, but it is very prominent...

She stands 26 inches. has been confirmed as a bracheo dwarf, though her legs are straight and has a dead on bite. We rescued her from a farm that had no problem breeding her. We were told that all of her foals either died at birth, or did not live long after they were born, leading me to believe they were all dwarves. She does hold a set of AMHA papers, but we have never bothered to have her transferred inot our names. What's the point? AMHA is going to see her updated pics and refuse to reissue the papers to us. She's a pet anyway.

She looks just like Einstein in type. What a great comparison. Thank you for posting. If you painted her black and white - she would be his clone.

 

[MountainWoman]

Just wondering about growth rate in dwarfs. I read an article about Einstein and said he stood 20" at 1 year but can't be officially declared the world's smallest stallion until age 4. Owners said they don't expect him to grow. Don't all minis put on some height after first birthday or just not dwarfs?

 

[Bonny]

Ok is it just me or what? I am wondering WHY he is being kept as a stallion. Is it to gain the worlds smallest stallion title? I dont know about the owners, so I dont mean to pass judgement, I am just saying if he IS a dwarf no matter how minimal, and wont be used to breed why keep him intact?

I know someone personally who has a very tiny dwarf , who is still an intact stallion...just seems very sad to me.

If the consensus is that a nice stallion would make a great gelding than certainly in this instance it should be true?

Course maybe he IS gelded?

 

[Jill]

I'm pretty sure he's still a stallion and yes, I think to obtain "The Title"

 

[tagalong]

I know someone personally who has a very tiny dwarf , who is still an intact stallion...just seems very sad to me.

Our little Cowboy - the resident dwarf/pet/mascot - is 10 years old this year - and yes, a stallion. Only because none of the local vets felt comfortable about sedating him in order to geld him as they were worried about his reaction to the anesthetic. Cowboy gets to wander around the yard as he pleases and has his "man-cave" deep in the rhododendrons. Even if he were able to get into the pasture with the mares, he could never breed them - he is too short and unable to rear up on his hind legs, anyway. They would have to lay down on their backs for him - and that is not going to happen! None of the mares take him seriously, anyway. He is happy. He is loved. He is sure he is the herd sire around here - who needs all those fancy bigger stallions? He will be cared for all his days - he has already lasted longer than many dwarves with his degree of foreleg and bite issues.

There is nothing sad about Cowboy still being a stallion...

 

[Eagle]

Good for you Tagalong, he sounds like a very happy and loved boy! Can we see a pic please

I have just found a frightening article in an Italian horse magazine about him:

Einstein isn't a dwarf, he is just small. Doctor Rachel Wagner, partner of Einstein's owner Judy, explained. Most mini horses are dwarfs and show several physical deformities, in other words they are not completely healthy but not Einstein, he is identical to a normal size horse, he is just 5 times smaller."

I am speechless!!

 

[tagalong]

Good for you Tagalong, he sounds like a very happy and loved boy! Can we see a pic please

I'm looking for one - I know I have posted him here in the past... think "magnificent silver dapple stallion greeting his subjects and surveying his kingdom"...

 

[Lori W]

I have just found a frightening article in an Italian horse magazine about him:

Einstein isn't a dwarf, he is just small. Doctor Rachel Wagner, partner of Einstein's owner Judy, explained. Most mini horses are dwarfs and show several physical deformities, in other words they are not completely healthy but not Einstein, he is identical to a normal size horse, he is just 5 times smaller."

I am speechless!!

Unbelievable! How many people will read this and think it's true?? Maybe you should write a letter to the editor about it, Renee. Educate the readers!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Einstein isn't a dwarf, he is just small. Doctor Rachel Wagner, partner of Einstein's owner Judy, explained. Most mini horses are dwarfs and show several physical deformities, in other words they are not completely healthy but not Einstein, he is identical to a normal size horse, he is just 5 times smaller."

O M G!

Well, for all those that have steadfastly supported them, believed in them, and stood ready to pounce on those that didn't...well, I wonder how they feel now?

If it isn't clear to everyone that these people are interested money, and nothing else. Those comments are blatantly WRONG. So much for being interested in the betterment of the breed. Let's just throw them all under the bus. Seriously? "Most mini horses are dwarfs and show several physical deformities...but not Einstein." Really?