Different types of Hay

[suz]

I'm driving myself nuts!

Trying to find a decent hay that's not too fattening to go with my Buckeye Grow N Win (32% protein).

Can someone explain to me the nutrients, fats, cuttings of hay - first cut, second cut and how that plays a part in nutrition and fat...

I've got people telling me how to feed my horse and what I'm feeding him is way too high in protein and this hay and that hay is too fattening and will cause colic, etc....

Is there a "basic" hay I can give him without having to worry if it is too much protein/fat with my 32% protein feed???

He gets 2 oz of Buckeye Grow n Win a.m. and p.m. 1/2 flake of orchard grass/timothy/alfalfa mix a.m. and p.m. (I think - I never really know what type of "good" hay he gets) and pangola? for lunch (something to chew on and keep him busy).

He is 4 years old and 200 pounds (with a little belly

: ) He gets about 1 hour pasture each day - stalled the rest of the day due to the heat down here.

To sum this up, I need an explanation of what types of hay are out there and their nutrition and when they are cut and how that plays a part in his day to day diet....

HELP!!! :new_shocked:

Thanks!

 

[crponies]

Interesting question. You definitely would want to choose a grass hay, not alfalfa as that is high in protein. However, this reminds me of something I was just reading in The Horse magazine that said some people make the mistake of picking a concentrate first and then their hay; it stated that you should pick your hay first and then choose any concentrates necessary to round out their diet. Just some food for though for you...

 

[Jill]

That is true, you should first pick the hay then the compliment to it (the concentrate).

I'd think a grass hay would be what you'd want... but is that correct or a typo with the 32% protein feed? I'd never heard of one that high (would scare me -- I would feed like a spoonful of it.........).

 

[suz]

I'd think a grass hay would be what you'd want... but is that correct or a typo with the 32% protein feed? I'd never heard of one that high (would scare me -- I would feed like a spoonful of it.........).

Yep, 32%. It's a ration balancer by Buckeye. Here's the link:

http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/equine/GNW...ct%20manual.pdf

Several people on the board use it with great success. So far, so good with me. His coat has never been more shiney using this feed!

But, I need some hay info as I don't want to feed him a high protein hay with this high protein he is eating with his grain.

 

[suz]

Interesting question. ...you should pick your hay first and then choose any concentrates necessary to round out their diet.

name='Jill' date='May 31 2007, 06:04 PM' post='825483']That is true, you should first pick the hay then the compliment to it (the concentrate).

I board him, so the hays are different. However, the majority of them have been T&A. Now, it is timothy/orchard. I know now not to feed alfalfa as that is the highest protein there is in hays!

I just opened a new bag of the Grow n Win, so I can't change feed now. So, I need a hay to compliment this feed....

Who'd have thunk choosing an appropriate hay would be so much trouble!?

:

I wish I could KISS!!

 

[crponies]

Please, go back and read what you just wrote: This is a ration balancer. That very name means it is meant to balance out your hay if needed. It is not designed to be your starting point.

 

[Marty]

OK Suz, take it easy. I was in your shoes down there so I know what you are up against.

Here's a little help for you I hope. These are little exerpts from my book. I grabbed the sentences from here and there to help you.

Horses were born to graze so grass plays an important role in your horse’s feed program. Forage is the foundation of that program. Forage means hay or grass.



The type of hay available to you will depend on what grows best in your region. Grass hays are the most common hay fed to the average horse. Most grass hays will average anywhere from nine to sixteen percent protein depending on many factors. The geographic location, how well the fields were fertilized, how much rain there was, maturity at time of harvest, and time of year the hay was harvested, determine the protein content, which makes a difference in the outcome of the hay.

Suz, Alfalfa may not be any higher in protein than your quality orchard grass or anything else. It's not grass......it's a legume which is part of the plant family. But don't be so scared of it. It's a favorite on breeding farms and I use it myself when I can get it.

Your Buckeye Grow and Win is a ration balancer correct? It is not grain. I had a hard time figureing out that one too. It's vitamins and minerals in a protein base. Not grain. That is what mine get with good quality protein hay. I use Purina brand which is called "Born to Win" My idle horses get only 1 cup am and 1 cup pm with grass and hay. That's it!

For my "working horses" (lactating) they get more plus grain plus grass plus hay.

Most ration balancers are designed to go along with a good quality hay. If you have access to T & A I'd be running for it and that would be my personal choice for my horses.

I would by-pass coastal because I have always had colic issues with coastal because grown down there it's usually way to fine and stringy. Either you love it or hate it, and I hate it; just my personal opinion. I would also forget the pangola which I have also used in a pinch, and it will blow them up like crazy.

It's probably ok to assume that the people you are boarding him with do not understand the slow metabolism of miniatures or their nutritional needs.

I hope Robin C stops by who is also a Floridian who can make a lot better sense out of this than I can!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Alfalfa hay can be safely fed to horses millions of horses ok thousands of horses are eating it daily and are doing just fine.

Many people make the mistake of assuming that there good quality grass hay is somehow low in protien.

Protien needs to be figured out as a whole meaning adding in the grain ect.

There is no one hay that works and really even cuttings will vary depending on where you are the soil and the maturity of the fields themselves.

The ration balancer really in simple terms should be thought of almost as a multi vitiman of sorts adding extra minerals and vitamens that your hay or grain may not provide. It is fed in very small amounts

 

[suz]

OK Suz, take it easy. I was in your shoes down there so I know what you are up against.

Suz, Alfalfa may not be any higher in protein than your quality orchard grass or anything else. It's not grass......it's a legume which is part of the plant family. But don't be so scared of it. It's a favorite on breeding farms and I use it myself when I can get it.

He has almost always been eating T&A with no problems (Thank God), but I feel that's what caused his belly. And I'm not personally scared of the T&A, it's the others at the barn that are freaking out saying he may colic with too much protein from the feed and the alfalfa.

Your Buckeye Grow and Win is a ration balancer correct? It is not grain.

Correct. it's a ration balancer, not grain.

It's vitamins and minerals in a protein base. Not good.

Why not good?

That is what mine get with good quality protein hay. I use Purina brand which is called "Born to Win" My idle horses get only 1 cup am and 1 cup pm with grass and hay. That's it!

1 cup am and pm! that sounds like alot. mine only gets 2 oz am and 2 oz pm with hay accompanying it.

Most ration balancers are designed to go along with a good quality hay. If you have access to T & A I'd be running for it and that would be my personal choice for my horses.

but wouldn't the alfalfa be too much added protein with the born to win? if would have to switch to the alfalfa born to win instead of the grass formula. That particular feed is only about 10 or 12% protein, as the high protein in the alfalfa would compensate for the lower feed protein from what I understand.

I would by-pass coastal . I would also forget the pangola which I have also used in a pinch, and it will blow them up like crazy.

I agree with the pangola, but again, it is there for a filler during the day as using other hay would be too rich for all afternoon munching, right?

It's probably ok to assume that the people you are boarding him with do not understand the slow metabolism of miniatures or their nutritional needs.
I hope Robin C stops by who is also a Floridian who can make a lot better sense out of this than I can!

I hope so too!

Thanks, Marty.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

It took me a while to really get this but.. the 32 percent protien in the ration balancer really isnt like giving your horse 32 percent protien it all has to be added in with all daily feedings and amounts and weight of feed.

2 oz of 32 percent protien "might" balance out to equal or less then what someone feeds 2 lbs of 14 percent protien grain by the end of the day in total amount of protien intake.

I am not that good at math but when Robin C explained it to me and was nice enough to do so more then once in private emails (math was just never my thing) I finally understood and while I cant come up with the numbers for my horses I do understand the concept now at least lol

 

[Marty]

Sorry Suz, in that line it was a type O......I didn't mean Not good. I meant Not grain. Sorry!

Lisa is explaining this a whole lot better than I can. Read her posts over again.

There's all kinds of math involved here if you really want to get down to it but my math is usually way far off. You might be a little too hung up on protein vs calories. I think that people at your barn are freaking out so much because in Florida, the "thinking" was that everyone was always consumed by saying that too much protein is going to make your horse too "hot" inside his body and sweat too much and loose too many salts.

My working horses (lactating) need the extra calories so they get that through some Purina Omelene 200 along with the ration balancer. But as I said, my other horses do fine on only the ration balancer.

I think it really depends on what you all are doing as far as "working" or "idle" and it may come back down to standing back and taking a good look at your horse from front to back, profile, and seeing if he is filled out as nicely as you'd like him to be. They are all so different, boggles the mind!

As for the pangola as a filler......actually I did that myself because back there, my horses were inside so much due to heat, they were all getting stall vices and I had to get something in there for them to do, to pass the time that was cost efficient. I also used it during winter for turn out time so they woudn't be eating the sand. But their main hay was T&A am & pm, usually out of Canada, the best stuff I ever saw in my life down there. Was $9.50 or so when I left 11 years ago. The pangola was $3.00 so it was ok to waste it in the fields, etc.

 

[jbrat]

Great thread!! :aktion033:

As I read thru this thread this comment

1 cup am and pm! that sounds like alot. mine only gets 2 oz am and 2 oz pm with hay accompanying it.

This made me think "which would you rather have 1cup or 2 oz.?" In my opinion giving alittle more of a lower protien grain would make the mini happier he'd feel fuller and be more satisfied. Add a little of the ration balancer as you see fit.

I'm no expert on a mini's nutritional needs, by far, I was just thinking from thier point of veiw? (as I sit here reading and eating a bag of Doritos) :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Jill]

I know I said this on another thread, but given your hay situation, I really think I'd be feeding complete pellets (and some hay) vs. this kind of extreme concentrate and a changing variety of hay.

This is how I feed my horses, and they look good (yeah... just ask their mamma).

You can see all my minis in my avatar as testimony. The one who looks the most fit, the dark one (Destiny) is actually fed / maintained by Erica and I think her feed program is different than mine so I do understand you "can get there" in a variety of ways, but I really feel since the hay is an inconsistent variety for your horse, that the complete pellet could anchor the program (but again, still do use some hay for chewing satisfaction).

 

[Cindy]

I know I said this on another thread, but given your hay situation, I really think I'd be feeding complete pellets (and some hay) vs. this kind of extreme concentrate and a changing variety of hay.

This is how I feed my horses, and they look good (yeah... just ask their mamma).

You can see all my minis in my avatar as testimony. The one who looks the most fit, the dark one (Destiny) is actually fed / maintained by Erica and I think her feed program is different than mine so I do understand you "can get there" in a variety of ways, but I really feel since the hay is an inconsistent variety for your horse, that the complete pellet could anchor the program (but again, still do use some hay for chewing satisfaction).