Deafness in Overo Paints

[rabbitsfizz]

It is not so much the pattern, it is how it is placed. A lot of Merle dogs are deaf as well. We see deafness in Splash (please forget the overo bit it has nothing to do with this discussion nd only confuses things, It is how we got the assumption that two Sabinos bred together could produce LWO) because it is the pattern that most often puts white over the ears. I am assuming there may have been a genetic link found between Splash and deafness?? Surely, if this had happened, though, we would have a foot in the door to testing for Splash?? So, as far as I can see, any horse with any pattern that goes over the ears could be deaf, it could merely be coincidence that this occurs most in Splash.........

 

[shelterwood]

It is not so much the pattern, it is how it is placed. A lot of Merle dogs are deaf as well. We see deafness in Splash (please forget the overo bit it has nothing to do with this discussion nd only confuses things, It is how we got the assumption that two Sabinos bred together could produce LWO) because it is the pattern that most often puts white over the ears. I am assuming there may have been a genetic link found between Splash and deafness?? Surely, if this had happened, though, we would have a foot in the door to testing for Splash?? So, as far as I can see, any horse with any pattern that goes over the ears could be deaf, it could merely be coincidence that this occurs most in Splash.........

Jane,

My mares pattern of white on her face does not go over her ears.....is that what you meant? Maybe she's the exception to the rule, but many of the pictures of deaf paints I have seen so far in my brief research have shown horses with colored, not white, ears, totally white faces that have a nearly straight line just above the eyes and below the ears where the darker pigment starts. It seems that the issue is internal pigmentation in the inner ear, so it seems like looking at the outside of the horse only gives you so many clues.

From what I read there has not been a definitive genetic marker discovered for deafness in these paint horses.

It's amazing at how differently I am now reading her behavior! Hopefully this awareness leads to a better understanding of her training needs.

Thanks for the posts!

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I may have missed this earlier in your thread, but have you considered driving her in an open (non-blinkered) bridle?

While a deaf horse may do quite well, have a job, and be kept from harm, I'm bothered by the readiness of many to breed and thus perpetuate this handicap, whether it be for color or whatever reason.

Hi Suzanne, i think its great that you posted. Thank you for taking time to do that.

Both my grand parents were born Deaf. They never considered themselves handicap, or allowed anyone else to consider them handicap. They led full lives, traveled, built a home, had 2 children(both able to hear),worked until they both were in their late 70's.) I have lived in a deaf community all my life, as we have the North Carolina School for the deaf here in Morganton. I have never really thought of the deaf people that i have known as handicap. They just seem to be able to do all that i can do, some things much better than me.

I guess that is why the thought of a deaf horse, dog, goat, bird or child never really bothered me. I have a little mare in my pasture that is deaf, and she gets along well, and no one every really notices that she is deaf. The other horses treat her the same. She has no special issues, or needs. I am not sure her hearing impairment has been handicap for her. And I am not sure that i consider her a "flawed" animal.

In fact, as i am sitting here listening to my boy friend in the background, i am wondering if i became deaf, that my life might be a little easier as well.

 

[shelterwood]

Hi Suzanne, i think its great that you posted. Thank you for taking time to do that.

Both my grand parents were born Deaf. They never considered themselves handicap, or allowed anyone else to consider them handicap. They led full lives, traveled, built a home, had 2 children(both able to hear),worked until they both were in their late 70's.) I have lived in a deaf community all my life, as we have the North Carolina School for the deaf here in Morganton. I have never really thought of the deaf people that i have known as handicap. They just seem to be able to do all that i can do, some things much better than me.

I guess that is why the thought of a deaf horse, dog, goat, bird or child never really bothered me. I have a little mare in my pasture that is deaf, and she gets along well, and no one every really notices that she is deaf. The other horses treat her the same. She has no special issues, or needs. I am not sure her hearing impairment has been handicap for her. And I am not sure that i consider her a "flawed" animal.

If fact, as i am sitting here listening to my boy friend in the background, i am wondering if i became deaf, that my life might be a little easier as well.

Lil hoofbeats,

Agreed! People, in all their variations and lovliness should NEVER be considered "flawed" and therefore be called into the same conversation about reproduction as animals, if that is what you were inferring?? I have genetic disease in my family that despite the risks, has not stopped anyone from having a family, and for that I am very pleased, obviously!

But for animals, of whom we manipulate for our likes, benefits, and needs, one does have to wonder if it is ethically sound to breed animals with known deficiencies (I had to choose my wording very carefully there, and even still may take some heat), as while my little mare has found a happy home that is now struggling to figure out how to best meet her needs and best potential, she is the exception to the rule. She can be difficult to handle, has trust issues, and may not be safe to use as a driving animal or riding animal for a child. So given those risks, she very well could end up in a bad situation. The question Susanne raised is one of passing this trait on to more generations, not whether or not one considers a deaf animal "flawed".

I would love to hear about your deaf mare. What have you done with her? Do you breed her? I'm not asking so I can judge you or holler at you!! Really! I'm curious what people think about this. I very much enjoy a nonjudgemental ethical discussion.

Katie

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Sure Katie, She is an awesome little mare in my eyes, beautiful head, deep hip, wonderful topline. She is the type of mare that i like.

She has raised 4 babies, and is foal for her 5th this year. All her babies could hear with the exception of one. That one was sold to a couple, and they were told she is deaf. They did not believe me, and still dont believe me, but yes that baby is deaf.

The reason that i do not have a problem with deaf horses, is because i have been around hearing impaired people all my life and i do not think that they are handicap.

Personally a horses hearing status would never be factor on if i bred them or bought them, as i do not consider this a problem. I do however always disclose if there is a hearing impairment on a horse i am selling so the potential buyer can evaluate that for themselves.

 

[HGFarm]

It certainly sounds suspicious by what you are saying, that she may be deaf. White cats can have the deaf gene (eye color in the cats has nothing to do with it) and I have two spayed female Manx that are deaf. No one who has ever come to visit can ever tell that they are deaf. A male that was born here was placed in a relatives home- he is now about 10 years old and is a great pet and believe it or not, a great mouser as well!

Their other senses take over and they learn to adapt to things in their own way by what works for them. You will both find a good way to work through things and yes, with the cats I use more pronounced signals to get their attention. They can't hear me call them, but they can feel the vibration of my foot on the floor two or three times- or I will make sure I am within their line of sight and use a hand signal. What's funny is that I never come home at the same time daily but they are almot always the first to greet me at the door when I do- I have never figured out how they know, but they do!

Bless you for giving your little horse a chance at a productive and fun life!

 

[Charlotte]

Cavallini farm

who knew everything you read on the web isn't true?!)

that's the problem! It's so difficult to search out the correct information....AND information can change in a short period of time so we have to keep searching all the time to stay on top of current research.
I think it's wonderful that you have such rapport with your horse.

 

[Lizzie]

It is not so much the pattern, it is how it is placed. A lot of Merle dogs are deaf as well. We see deafness in Splash (please forget the overo bit it has nothing to do with this discussion nd only confuses things, It is how we got the assumption that two Sabinos bred together could produce LWO) because it is the pattern that most often puts white over the ears. I am assuming there may have been a genetic link found between Splash and deafness?? Surely, if this had happened, though, we would have a foot in the door to testing for Splash?? So, as far as I can see, any horse with any pattern that goes over the ears could be deaf, it could merely be coincidence that this occurs most in Splash.........

It's interesting isn't it, Rabbitsfizz. In Gypsies we see Splash all the time. So far I have not heard of any being deaf, so will ask on our Gypsy Horse forum today. We also do not have Frame in the breed, so do you think that might have something to do with it?

Lizzie

 

[lil hoofbeats]

You are right Charlotte, things change so much, its importatnt to keep learning as things evolve!

And Katie i just reread your post, and you are right humans should never be compared with animals, and I should not have done that. I was just trying to let everyone know how my thought process came about, and why a hearing issue on an animal was not a big deal to me. But you are right! Reproduction in humans, and reproduction in animals are two completely different things.

To me deafness in an animal would not prohibit me from using it in a breeding program. I do however respect someones opinion not to use it, and would/do disclose a horses hearing impairment to any person looking to purchase the animal, whether i was ask that question or not. I would hope any person breeding splash horses would be open about that as well, because if you raise enough of them, you will have deaf foals born. Even from 2 hearing parents.

 

[slv]

I confess that I have not read this entire thread, only the first page, so if what I am stating sounds like I have missed something, perhaps I did, LOL But I have several splash overo minis and a few frames and none of them are deaf. So I do think the internet article that said 90% of them are is incorrect.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I confess that I have not read this entire thread, only the first page, so if what I am stating sounds like I have missed something, perhaps I did, LOL But I have several splash overo minis and a few frames and none of them are deaf. So I do think the internet article that said 90% of them are is incorrect.

Yes most of my splashes( and i have a bunch) can hear. I think it is more like 10% that can not hear. At least that is what i have seen personally in my herd.

 

[Becky]

From what I have seen over the years, it appears that homozygous splashed horses that carry no other pattern are the most likely to be deaf. They also are the ones who are generally all to mostly white with at least a white head.

Mixed pattern horses, no matter the amount of white, don't seem to be deaf in any fashion. I have had many tobiano/splashed white horses that are virtually all white. Some have had only a tiny medicine hat while others may only have color in their tails. None have been deaf. I have had some full pattern (likely homozygous splash) horses and none have been deaf.

There are also frame overo horses that are deaf, so deafness isn't limited to only the splashed pattern.

Having said that, in all of my years in miniatures (23 to be exact), I have rarely ever seen a deaf horse and I have seen a lot of miniatures!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Actually, the only Splash that was deaf that I have personal experience of was a LWO tested Splash, so, not true about the mixed pattern thing, I am afraid, but a well thought out theory, I think.

We can only keep guessing, until we have a test for Splash- I think the test will end up being associated with deafness, myself, that was the foot in the door with Lp.(sorry, not deafness, night blindness, obviously, with Lp)

The line most famous for deafness in Splash was the Millard line, - QH/Paints in Australia, they were all( or almost all) deaf, that would seem a good place to start.

The white could be inside the ear, btw, way down inside where you would need to go with one of those things doctors use- it is, typically, also white on the outside, but no rule says it has to be.

There is no problem I can see with breeding a deaf mare that is well balanced, although it is an obvious "fault" in the animals kingdom (ie not an ideal state) we do not know (I don't think, anyway??) how it is inherited- the percentage seems fairly low in humans even with both parents deaf, although it runs in families. I would not use a deaf stallion, mainly because a mare only has one foal a year.

 

[Becky]

I haven't seen any tobiano/splash deaf horses. LWO/splash a definite possibility. Still waiting for the day when there is a test for splash.

 

[Mona]

I once owned a (visible) Splashed White that also carried/tested + for frame. Although I never had him actually sound tested, I do believe he was deaf. The first sign I noticed was his weanling year, the winter after we bought him, he was standing in a small little shelter. Hubby was banging around out behind it, and I was watching Voodoo standing inside, not even flinching! I had Chris actually bang on the shelter, and where most horses would have come running out half scared to death, he stood there like he heard nothing!

We had the vet look at him and do a simple "test" here, just with making noises to see if he repsonded, and he never, so we were sure he was deaf. Around that time, I did read up on deafness in horses, and read that deaf horses can often make even better riding/driving horses as they are not prone to spooking at noises!

This was my deaf guy...

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Yes i have seen several splash/Frame deaf horses, and like rabbit Fizz said, most had white ears. But until Becky just mentioned it, she is right, i have NEVER seen a tobi/splash that was deaf, hmmm... never thought about it...but in fact, i have never seen one.

That is interesting, i wonder why.

What i have noticed when breeding splashes, are there seem to be several Splash type patterns.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think it is coincidence, myself, I cannot see anything in Tobiano, beyond it's drive to stop white forward of the shoulder, that would stop deafness.

As I said, the white on the ears can be way down, inside the ears, unseeable to the naked eye.

 

[Songcatcher]

I think it is coincidence, myself, I cannot see anything in Tobiano, beyond it's drive to stop white forward of the shoulder, that would stop deafness.

As I said, the white on the ears can be way down, inside the ears, unseeable to the naked eye.

And that may be the reason. Tobiano tends to keep white off the head and ears.

 

[Becky]

I'm referring to tobi/splashed horses like this one. Solid white with only black hair in her tail. No color on the head. Ones with very high white and I've never seen ones like these that also carry tobiano that are deaf. Maybe it is just coincidence, but who knows? They definitely have white ears.

And this one. Tiny medicine hat only. Rest of the head and body is solid white.

 

[Becky]

Thank you, Diane. I'm really proud of my breeding program!

I want to add that the two horses pictured are sired by the stallion in my avatar, Redrock Magic Maker.