Contracted Superficial Flexor Tendons? Or Weird Growth?

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SilverRose Farms

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This is a first foal from this mare.

Mare is quite refined. Sire is very refined.

The filly is absolutely stunning except her back feet. They have not caused her any issues in movement in anyway shape or form. Farrier is going to see if there is anything he can do. But thought I would ask here to see if anyone else has encountered this and whether she is going to just be a pasture pet now or can she be used as a broodmare when shes old enough? Or if there's a trick to lengthen the tendons.

Ive had the vet and farrier involved the whole time however neither is very experienced with miniatures. The vet said it is just that her legs were sooo long and her momma so refined and the fact that she was a first foal her mom's tummy hadn't been stretched to allow the fillys long legs yet. However her mom is now 3 months from foaling her second foal and shes exactly the same size as she was shape wise with number 2 as she was with number 1.

Thanks everyone.

BackFeet.jpg
 

SilverRose Farms

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I dont have a larger one. I will get a larger one today though. I realized that after I posted that the photo is like pea sized.
 

disneyhorse

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How old is the filly? I think there's a surgery that can be done... But a vet should definitely see that... I'd get a second opinion
 

Riverrose28

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I'm not sure because the pic is small, is that hair or a bulge in front of the pastern? It looks like a bulge in which case has she been injured or stepped on? The far foot doesn't look bad just the nearest one. Anyhow, any good equine vet should be able to pin piont the problem. Maybe an x-ray is in order.
 

SilverRose Farms

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She will be going to the vet again. But this time a different one. Shes 10 months old. I live in a town where there's only one vet clinic so I have to save up and take her 3 hours away to a guy who specializes in leg and hoof issues.

She was suppose to go in a 2 weeks to see him but a colic in one of my others took the vet money and then some. The vet here says shell be fine and says I need a new farrier. The farrier is the one who said take her to the vet (which I did).

I will have new "bigger" pictures later tonight.
 

disneyhorse

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It doesn't look like a farrier issue to me. If your vet is pointing fingers at others in this situation, I'd be finding a new vet for sure.
 

Minimor

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I agree--I would not blame this on the farrier--it very likely is a developmental issue caused by a first foaling/tight uterus--I have seen pictures of one other similar case (I think that one was worse) and in that case the bones/joint were fused in that position and there was nothing that could be done. If that is the case here then nothing a farrier does will be able to fix it--but it is the vet's job to determine the exact situation (c-rays would be a good start) and then give advice to you and your farrier if there IS anything that can be done for your horse.
 

drmatthewtaylor

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It is a subluxation of the Pastern joint due to a too short lateral digital extensor. If it has been chronically luxated, then not likely to be fixed without surgery. If acute, then raising the angle might help.

The cases I have seen have a strong genetic component.

Good luck,

Dr. Taylor
 

SilverRose Farms

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This picture should enlarge.

Neither Parent has this and never has had any issues with their legs or feet. She didnt have it when she was smaller its only been the last couple months that Ive seen her feet being weird. The farrier is trying to build her heels up to see if that helps.

Her mom is back in foal to the same stallion. Should I be concerned about that foal?

Shes absolutly stunning other than her back feet.

IMG_0068.JPG
 

Minimor

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For some reason, from your first post I thought she had this from birth. Did she have contracted tendons from birth, with the knuckling over in the pastern being just quite recent? Or did the whole contraction just start a couple months ago too?

What do you have get on for feed?
 

SilverRose Farms

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Her legs were weak from birth. And shes done weird growth things in her legs and feet. We are always correcting angles and flares and building hoof here and there.

But this latest thing has been about 2-3 months now. When I first noticed it I called the vet vet said call the farrier called the farrier he came out shook his head and said she needs to see the vet. Went to the vet vet said shell grow out of it. Keep an eye on it and watch how the farrier does her feet.

Lately her heels have been collapsing under and she grows tons of toe. (Shes due again for a trim Farrier is coming Saturday.)

He says take her back to a vet. And suggested saving for the specialist 3 hours away.

But in the meantime I was hoping that someone on here would have seen/dealt or something like it.
 

disneyhorse

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Your farrier can't begin to know how to correct this without seeing x-rays...
 

BSharpRanch

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Your farrier is correct, get your baby to a knowledgable vet. Chances are she will not grow out of it. I have a friend whode vet and shoer told her that her colt would grow out of his laxities. It took shoes to help him, which he wore his entire short life. ( 3 years. Had an anuarisim.). If he would have had those shoes from day one he may have outgrew his problem.
 

Marty

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Honestly, there is so much hair there its hard to see, but I do see it. How about shaving those legs for better better viewing? Even though the sire/dam aren't like that, could still be in the genetics.

From what I do see of the feet, she looks foundered to me.

Not sure your farrier is doing her any favors as well as your vet. Perhaps another opinion. Look outside the box. Best wishes to you.
 

supaspot

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Id dump both , I think its a job for the vet but the farrier shouldve told you that much sooner , get a new vet and a new farrier ,
 

Jean_B

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Listen to DRMATTHEWTAYLOR - there aren't too many vets anywhere in the country that know more about equine medicine than him. Several generations of veterinarians there that raise some of the most awesome minis & ponies. He knows what he's talking about.
 

drmatthewtaylor

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This picture should enlarge.

Neither Parent has this and never has had any issues with their legs or feet. She didnt have it when she was smaller its only been the last couple months that Ive seen her feet being weird. The farrier is trying to build her heels up to see if that helps.

Her mom is back in foal to the same stallion. Should I be concerned about that foal?

Shes absolutly stunning other than her back feet.
The issue does not happen with the front legs.

They aren't born with the condition, they develop it over time.

Breeding animals can carry a trait genetically that they do not express themselves. Phenotype is the physical attributes of an animal, while genotype is their genetic makeup. Phenotype can equal genotype, but it does not have to. This is why some breeding animals breed better than they are and others breed worse than they are.

I do not know how heritable the condition is. In my experience it occurs about 15% of the time in a particular line.

I do not mind working with a farrier, but I have never been successful with that alone. If it is going to be successful then you will know it immediately. The farrier must put the foot at an angle and with the support needed to put the joint back into place. A shoe (glue on likely) will need to be used. When the farrier is done and sets the foot down the leg must be normal. If that doesn't happen then waiting a few weeks to see if it improves won't work either.

I think surgery is something like 80% effective in studies, but I have not been able to attain that high of a success rate.

Dr. Taylor
 

SilverRose Farms

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Listen to DRMATTHEWTAYLOR - there aren't too many vets anywhere in the country that know more about equine medicine than him. Several generations of veterinarians there that raise some of the most awesome minis & ponies. He knows what he's talking about.
Jean, I do listen and am open to suggestions.

Reguardless this filly will always have a home.

I definitly appreciate Dr Matt Taylor's information. I have been getting crap information for a long time. Filly is 10 months old I just want to know if I can help her. I dont take them to the vet without being able to pay in full up front. However one of my mares coliced and took every sent and then some which is the only reason this filly is not already at the vet. A 2500 dollar vet bill for an emergency was not planned and having my vet fund hit 3 times in the last year from major events two of which were life threatening doesnt make for an extra dime anywhere. She is happy and playing and never limps has stunning movement even with this.

I really really appreciate Dr Taylor's information. And I wont be crossing the two horses back together again. I was asking about the genetics because the mare IS in foal to the same stallion.

Her feet only started doing this particular thing over the last 2 months. Shes seen people about it. I have to travel 3-4 hours to have a vet look at her who specializes in leg and feet issues and he is not cheap. I have the colic bill to pay off before I can even think about taking her to another vet who may just tell me the same thing. As there are few vets familiar with Miniatures.

This filly as I said never has to worry about where she will live. If for some reason something happens to me I have another home for her where she wont be lacking care either.
 

SilverRose Farms

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The issue does not happen with the front legs.

They aren't born with the condition, they develop it over time.

Breeding animals can carry a trait genetically that they do not express themselves. Phenotype is the physical attributes of an animal, while genotype is their genetic makeup. Phenotype can equal genotype, but it does not have to. This is why some breeding animals breed better than they are and others breed worse than they are.

I do not know how heritable the condition is. In my experience it occurs about 15% of the time in a particular line.

I do not mind working with a farrier, but I have never been successful with that alone. If it is going to be successful then you will know it immediately. The farrier must put the foot at an angle and with the support needed to put the joint back into place. A shoe (glue on likely) will need to be used. When the farrier is done and sets the foot down the leg must be normal. If that doesn't happen then waiting a few weeks to see if it improves won't work either.

I think surgery is something like 80% effective in studies, but I have not been able to attain that high of a success rate.

Dr. Taylor
Thank you Dr Taylor.

Do you know an approximate cost for surgery? (I know things vary between citys and countries ect) But would just like an idea. Since the colic surgery was going to be 8000-15000. And would they do both or one at a time? I would like to start saving up so that she can have it done if thats what the vet figures needs to happen.

I will give the filly what ever she needs for a long and healthy life.

Thank you for your time in answering my questions and everyone else's questions on here.

In regards to the new full sibling on its way is there anything I can do, watch for or ..... to prevent or see it happening sooner. Having never seen or even heard of this before in 20+ years of breeding I would like to know more.
 

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