Congress - Financial Woes

[dmk]

Well frankly there is not a forum that a large amount of pony people go to on a regular basis. Obviously word got out here on this forum and now it will spread among those who do not even go on messages both pony and mini owners remember we are all one registry
And how often has keeping secrets worked in the long for our registry how has that been for the good any orginization.

How many people who do not go to congress realize that there class prices are so low for a National show? That is not making money why not raise the fees to what Nationals is paying wont fix the budget issue in itself but sure will help

Yes lots of negative and positive comes out of open discussions but really that is the only way to see any change and to get everyone thinking and working at fixing the issue at hand.

Well I disagree with you there. I posted it on the Shetland forum telling everyone to come over and read. WHO said it needed to be a secret? Definitely not my words. Why would posting to both forums be anything EXCEPT trying to get the information out there? No one in the pony industry that I know says let's sweep this under the rug...it gets discussed quite often and heatedly as well by pony people. Why do you think many of us made such a huge deal out of moving Congress to a more central location? If you go back and read some of the posts on the PONY FORUM that many of us read that show at Congress and all over the country at pony shows, you would see that this very topic has been very much discussed and discussed and discussed because we "pony people" know that we need to do something and we are working on that very thing. Nobody said don't discuss this with mini people or that we are separate. I own both and show both. Many pony people do, but there are quite a few that don't. And a few that used to own minis but switched over to ponies, so while they are not technically mini owners, they consider themselves involved in both.

I thought Jennifer did a great job of pointing out some truths in her post.

Talking about it is great, but the fact is, Lea posted to the mini forum ONLY. MY POINT was to include everyone in the discussion...which is what you seem to be saying we should do. If we want true DISCUSSION and UNITY...why NOT post to EVERYONE. Lea knows the discussions that were held regarding Congress and making money, the move and what we hope to accomplish with that, etc. Regardless of what anyone says, number of users or not, there are pony forums here and otherwise and it could easily have been posted to both for this very reason. This organization has ALREADY MADE STEPS in hopes of improving this situation...having finally agreed to move the show to a more central location.

Now I am curious to ask Kay how many registered users are on the pony forum?

 

[~Lisa~]

Carin why would it be fair to raise Nationals? Nationals supports itself- why not just have BOTH NATIONAL SHOWS CARRY THE SAME ENTRY FEES AND OFFICE FEES?????

Nationals fees were just raised this year by the way

 

[Belinda]

[SIZE=14pt]Ok , [/SIZE]

Think about this,, if we sold Sponsorships per class for Just $75 per class , we would pay for all our Trophy's & Ribbons..

Congress had 378 classes last year , you x that by $75 it comes to $28,350 ,, actually after looking Congress has 41 more classes than Mini Nationals , I was surprised by that one..

 

[txminipinto]

Carin why would it be fair to raise Nationals? Nationals supports itself- why not just have BOTH NATIONAL SHOWS CARRY THE SAME ENTRY FEES AND OFFICE FEES?????Nationals fees were just raised this year by the way

Because they are both national shows run by the same association and show management team. Raise the fees so that both shows cost the same per class/stall/etc. It would make paper work easier and the additional revenue from the Nationals would help off set expenses and losses in other areas of the assocition (Congress included).

Belinda, I don't have any problem sponsoring class if that would help. AS LONG as we have a show premium with all the sponsors listed!

 

[Mark & Sharon Bullington]

Belinda has a GREAT idea. Sponsorships are not that hard to sell in actuality. And I know they get announced

. In fact I will state here and now that without owning ponies, but because I DO believe in the registry and want to help out, Sharon and I will sponsor two classes at this next years Congress at $75.00 per class. Lets start the ball rolling folks.

Mark Bullington

 

[afoulk]

At the bottom of the American Shetland Pony site there are the board statistics showing the number of registered users at being 334.




As far as raising fees I do not know what the Congress Fees are but the AMHR National Fees for 2009 were as follows.

Youth Classes 20.00

PMC Classes 20.00

Amateur Class 30.00

Open Classes 40.00

Performance Stakes 50.00

Super G Futurity Fee 25.00

Futurity Fee 3 year old 20.00

Futurity Fee 2 years and under 10.00

Office Fee Per Horse 10.00

Horse or Tack Stall 65.00

Arlene

Well frankly there is not a forum that a large amount of pony people go to on a regular basis. Obviously word got out here on this forum and now it will spread among those who do not even go on messages both pony and mini owners remember we are all one registry
And how often has keeping secrets worked in the long for our registry how has that been for the good any orginization.

How many people who do not go to congress realize that there class prices are so low for a National show? That is not making money why not raise the fees to what Nationals is paying wont fix the budget issue in itself but sure will help

Yes lots of negative and positive comes out of open discussions but really that is the only way to see any change and to get everyone thinking and working at fixing the issue at hand.

Well I disagree with you there. I posted it on the Shetland forum telling everyone to come over and read. WHO said it needed to be a secret? Definitely not my words. Why would posting to both forums be anything EXCEPT trying to get the information out there? No one in the pony industry that I know says let's sweep this under the rug...it gets discussed quite often and heatedly as well by pony people. Why do you think many of us made such a huge deal out of moving Congress to a more central location? If you go back and read some of the posts on the PONY FORUM that many of us read that show at Congress and all over the country at pony shows, you would see that this very topic has been very much discussed and discussed and discussed because we "pony people" know that we need to do something and we are working on that very thing. Nobody said don't discuss this with mini people or that we are separate. I own both and show both. Many pony people do, but there are quite a few that don't. And a few that used to own minis but switched over to ponies, so while they are not technically mini owners, they consider themselves involved in both.

I thought Jennifer did a great job of pointing out some truths in her post.

Talking about it is great, but the fact is, Lea posted to the mini forum ONLY. MY POINT was to include everyone in the discussion...which is what you seem to be saying we should do. If we want true DISCUSSION and UNITY...why NOT post to EVERYONE. Lea knows the discussions that were held regarding Congress and making money, the move and what we hope to accomplish with that, etc. Regardless of what anyone says, number of users or not, there are pony forums here and otherwise and it could easily have been posted to both for this very reason. This organization has ALREADY MADE STEPS in hopes of improving this situation...having finally agreed to move the show to a more central location.

Now I am curious to ask Kay how many registered users are on the pony forum?

 

[LaVern]

Wonderful idea Belinda, so simple. I was wondering if Congress had 300.00 sponsorship tables and 100.00 fee(full page) to advertise in the program.

 

[muffntuf]

Two years ago the class sponsorships I paid $100. The full page ads were about that too. I was one of 3 farms I think that had full page ads, maybe only two. And then there was a conglomeration of farms that went together to do a 2 full page ad. So this is an area of opp.

 

[Yaddax3]

Because they are both national shows run by the same association and show management team. Raise the fees so that both shows cost the same per class/stall/etc. It would make paper work easier and the additional revenue from the Nationals would help off set expenses and losses in other areas of the assocition (Congress included).I hope Carin is kidding about raising AMHR Nationals fees. They're plenty high enough, particularly for Youth and Amateur, which are the lifeblood of both AMHR and ASPC. Trainers make no money if they don't have amateurs looking for help. And if you keep raising fees, there will be less disposal income for amateurs to spend on trainers.

Our family stopped showing on the Pinto circuit because the fee to attend Pinto Worlds got absurdly high, as did the fee for local Pinto shows. Also, Pinto Worlds made money, not because of minis and Ponies, but because a lot of people haul just one or two big horses.

Just curious: What was the average size of a mini class at Pinto Worlds?

Back to Congress and AMHR Nationals. I would have preferred to have seen an increase in fees at Congress instead of an increase at AMHR Nationals. It was $10 for Youth at Congress and $20 for Youth at Nationals. Why not meet in the middle and charge $15 for both Congress and Nationals?

However ...

If you're going to make it equitable, then make it truly equitable and have ponies qualify for Congress. Other than keeping the money flowing in from mini owners, what is the reason a mini has to attend two shows to qualify while a pony doesn't have to qualify for Congress? If ponies had to qualify, they would bring in more money for the ASPC coffers and, perhaps, the show experience would help prevent wrecks like the one that took place in the Foundation Country Pleasure Class at this year's Congress.

Also, I've noticed several posts that mentioned without ASPC there would be no mini registry. I know that to be true because pony people have told me it is. What I don't know is this: What was the motivation for starting AMHR? Was it to find another funding mechanism to keep the Shetland registry afloat or did it just seem like a good idea to get smaller horses involved? I'm not looking to start something. I really don't know.

 

[Yaddax3]

One more thing ...

If Congress added more Foundation classes, more folks with double-registered AMHR-ASPC horses likely would attend and that would contribute more funding.

 

[dmk]

If you're going to make it equitable, then make it truly equitable and have ponies qualify for Congress. Other than keeping the money flowing in from mini owners, what is the reason a mini has to attend two shows to qualify while a pony doesn't have to qualify for Congress? If ponies had to qualify, they would bring in more money for the ASPC coffers and, perhaps, the show experience would help prevent wrecks like the one that took place in the Foundation Country Pleasure Class at this year's Congress.

Well the reason for not qualifying is because of numbers. The qualification thing is mostly to keep number manageable which is not a problem for Congress.

This has been discusssed several times...at shows and at Convention in the Classic committee I know one year.

Meant to add...I agree with raising the fees for Congress. I know there will be a lot that won't like it, but for a national show I think it is pretty good. I will join Mark & Sharon in saying I will gladly sponsor two classes at Congress in 2010. I really believe that moving the Congress to a more central location will make a difference in numbers and hopefully dollars. There has already been much discussion and idea exchanging going on here in Area V for the upcoming Congress.

 

[Norlea]

Well frankly there is not a forum that a large amount of pony people go to on a regular basis. Obviously word got out here on this forum and now it will spread among those who do not even go on messages both pony and mini owners remember we are all one registry
And how often has keeping secrets worked in the long for our registry how has that been for the good any orginization.

How many people who do not go to congress realize that there class prices are so low for a National show? That is not making money why not raise the fees to what Nationals is paying wont fix the budget issue in itself but sure will help

Yes lots of negative and positive comes out of open discussions but really that is the only way to see any change and to get everyone thinking and working at fixing the issue at hand.

Well I disagree with you there. I posted it on the Shetland forum telling everyone to come over and read. WHO said it needed to be a secret? Definitely not my words. Why would posting to both forums be anything EXCEPT trying to get the information out there? No one in the pony industry that I know says let's sweep this under the rug...it gets discussed quite often and heatedly as well by pony people. Why do you think many of us made such a huge deal out of moving Congress to a more central location? If you go back and read some of the posts on the PONY FORUM that many of us read that show at Congress and all over the country at pony shows, you would see that this very topic has been very much discussed and discussed and discussed because we "pony people" know that we need to do something and we are working on that very thing. Nobody said don't discuss this with mini people or that we are separate. I own both and show both. Many pony people do, but there are quite a few that don't. And a few that used to own minis but switched over to ponies, so while they are not technically mini owners, they consider themselves involved in both.

I thought Jennifer did a great job of pointing out some truths in her post.

Talking about it is great, but the fact is, Lea posted to the mini forum ONLY. MY POINT was to include everyone in the discussion...which is what you seem to be saying we should do. If we want true DISCUSSION and UNITY...why NOT post to EVERYONE. Lea knows the discussions that were held regarding Congress and making money, the move and what we hope to accomplish with that, etc. Regardless of what anyone says, number of users or not, there are pony forums here and otherwise and it could easily have been posted to both for this very reason. This organization has ALREADY MADE STEPS in hopes of improving this situation...having finally agreed to move the show to a more central location.

Sorry that I did not post on the pony boards. You do not see me on these Boards all that often. I was just answering a post regarding how we the directors can't give straight answers. I am not excluding anyone... Just not as talented as the rest of you when posting on different boards or Sites. Ask Marylou, I am always bugging her that I can't log in on these boards. I guess if you need to SHOOT the messinger - shoot away, but it doesn't change the facts...

Now I am curious to ask Kay how many registered users are on the pony forum?

 

[muffntuf]

Whether or not this is real in response to Bob's post:

Other than keeping the money flowing in from mini owners, what is the reason a mini has to attend two shows to qualify while a pony doesn't have to qualify for Congress? If ponies had to qualify, they would bring in more money for the ASPC coffers and, perhaps, the show experience would help prevent wrecks like the one that took place in the Foundation Country Pleasure Class at this year's Congress.

I heard it was the numbers of how many minis were coming to Nationals that they had to qualify. But that is just heresay.

IMHO:If ponies had to qualify I think there is a fear that pony owners will drop out - especially in areas where there aren't any pony classes held. For instance the far west has few pony classes offered. I am not opposed to this - but what criteria would we use? One class to qualify - two. Since I haven't been to Nationals, but I have friends who have, don't they just have to step into the arena 2X's (not finish the class) to qualify for Nationals?

There is an old standard as well, that the novice harness and roadster ponies are introduced at Congress. Kind of supports your theory Bob, but I am not sure it would 100%.

 

[Norlea]

Sorry that I did not post on the pony boards. You do not see me on these Boards all that often. I was just answering a post regarding how we the directors can't give straight answers and put the Congress facts under a new topic.. WRONG I guess????

I am not excluding anyone... Just not as talented as the rest of you when posting on different boards or Sites. Ask Marylou, I am always bugging her that I can't log in on these boards. I guess if you need to SHOOT the messinger - shoot away, but it doesn't change the facts...

Well frankly there is not a forum that a large amount of pony people go to on a regular basis. Obviously word got out here on this forum and now it will spread among those who do not even go on messages both pony and mini owners remember we are all one registry
And how often has keeping secrets worked in the long for our registry how has that been for the good any orginization.

How many people who do not go to congress realize that there class prices are so low for a National show? That is not making money why not raise the fees to what Nationals is paying wont fix the budget issue in itself but sure will help

Yes lots of negative and positive comes out of open discussions but really that is the only way to see any change and to get everyone thinking and working at fixing the issue at hand.

Well I disagree with you there. I posted it on the Shetland forum telling everyone to come over and read. WHO said it needed to be a secret? Definitely not my words. Why would posting to both forums be anything EXCEPT trying to get the information out there? No one in the pony industry that I know says let's sweep this under the rug...it gets discussed quite often and heatedly as well by pony people. Why do you think many of us made such a huge deal out of moving Congress to a more central location? If you go back and read some of the posts on the PONY FORUM that many of us read that show at Congress and all over the country at pony shows, you would see that this very topic has been very much discussed and discussed and discussed because we "pony people" know that we need to do something and we are working on that very thing. Nobody said don't discuss this with mini people or that we are separate. I own both and show both. Many pony people do, but there are quite a few that don't. And a few that used to own minis but switched over to ponies, so while they are not technically mini owners, they consider themselves involved in both.

I thought Jennifer did a great job of pointing out some truths in her post.

Talking about it is great, but the fact is, Lea posted to the mini forum ONLY. MY POINT was to include everyone in the discussion...which is what you seem to be saying we should do. If we want true DISCUSSION and UNITY...why NOT post to EVERYONE. Lea knows the discussions that were held regarding Congress and making money, the move and what we hope to accomplish with that, etc. Regardless of what anyone says, number of users or not, there are pony forums here and otherwise and it could easily have been posted to both for this very reason. This organization has ALREADY MADE STEPS in hopes of improving this situation...having finally agreed to move the show to a more central location.

Now I am curious to ask Kay how many registered users are on the pony forum?

 

[muffntuf]

I think Lea that once the post had turned around to be a 'solutions' post instead of seen as an attack, this has been more beneficial.

I have been asking for 5 years now to see a detailed financial report from the registry - we as members hear things, it is our club, we want to help. But we can't when our hands are tied.

 

[~Lisa~]

For the record Carin we were both saying the same thing the fees should be the same for classes at both Nationals and Congress not raising just one or the other.

I to think ponies should have to qualify- yes there is not an abundence of shows for them but hey not a huge amount of shows for a lot of us. We have up until this past year only 1 in our entire state and it does include pony classes.

Those that want to show at the National level will do what it takes to get there myself included

 

[SweetOpal]

I would not be against ponies having to qualify, it would greatly benefit lots of local level clubs. I personally have never understood why more ponies are not shown and only shown at the World or the Congress, seems quiet ridiculous knowing how much time and work goes into turning one of these ponies out.

The west not having shows has thankfully started to change. The Pacific northwest had I think 6 shetlands shows this year and Ca had 3, huge step from our usual area 7 only national show. However we still have very few exhibitors from Area 7, all but a few attended the congress in 09, so that is a positive, and I expect with the move being 750 miles closer that we will bring in some new blood from this area.

I will match Mark and Michelle's pledge of sponsorship as well. We need to get a sponsorship going.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

And for the past 4 years, I've loaded up my trailer with a full load of ponies and hauled the 18 hours to Congress. I can assure you there are other pony owners who don't. I'm hopeing in 2010 they change their minds and give Congress a shot.

Well, we for one, plan to be at Congress next year! We have five ponies that we "plan" on bringing ( if I get a job, AND they left me have the time off!) Ardmore is a BEAUTIFUL facility, easy to get to and the barns are great! Several warm up rings. Plus it's close to us, driving distance wise.

Entry fees: raise those! Even $5 a class will add thousands to the coffers.

Sponsorships: $75 sounds great! Plus, if you can get donations from vendors or anyone, even, have a drawing for those "prizes" from all who sponsored. A certificate from the photographer, a free class entry, free stall for next year, etc... tack shop gift certificates..... lots that you could get!

Lucy

 

[chismhill]

I would not be against ponies having to qualify, it would greatly benefit lots of local level clubs. I personally have never understood why more ponies are not shown and only shown at the World or the Congress, seems quiet ridiculous knowing how much time and work goes into turning one of these ponies out.
The west not having shows has thankfully started to change. The Pacific northwest had I think 6 shetlands shows this year and Ca had 3, huge step from our usual area 7 only national show. However we still have very few exhibitors from Area 7, all but a few attended the congress in 09, so that is a positive, and I expect with the move being 750 miles closer that we will bring in some new blood from this area.

I will match Mark and Michelle's pledge of sponsorship as well. We need to get a sponsorship going.

I was asked to work on the sponsorships for 2010 Congress at our Area 5 meeting.. I think it will be made official at Convention,, AM I RIGHT BELINDA? and if I am not made offical.. I will help whom ever is....

I too will sponsor some classes and dontate my time and effort to make this the most successfull CONGRESS EVER.... I am very excited for my birth state and home state to be hosting such a great organization..

OKLAHOMA used to be a hot bed of Shetland activity,,, the two largest shetland sales were hosted in OKLAHOMA,,, Perry Carlise Sale at Perry OK and the Ada Ok sale.. we once had a LT. GOV.. that was major player in the Shetland Game..

WE MUST STICK TOGETHER<< we might not agree all the time,, but solidarity is a must... I personally have to much time and money invested to let this all go to heck IN A HAND BASKET.... (I am sure the rest of you feel the same way)..

If you have any Ideas I will listen to all, call or email.

Freddy Wright

Chism Hill Pony Farm

Byars, Ok 74831

580-759-3617 home

405-659-1379 cell

[email protected]

 

[ruffian]

"IMHO:If ponies had to qualify I think there is a fear that pony owners will drop out - especially in areas where there aren't any pony classes held. For instance the far west has few pony classes offered. I am not opposed to this - but what criteria would we use? One class to qualify - two. Since I haven't been to Nationals, but I have friends who have, don't they just have to step into the arena 2X's (not finish the class) to qualify for Nationals? "

If a pony had to qualify for Congress, they would have to show at local shows. If they have to show at local shows, then local shows would have classes because they would have entries. Money would come in to support ASPC.

If I didn't have to qualify for nationals, why would I show at a local show?? Just save the money for the big shows.

I don't agree with raising the fees on the National show to pay for Congress.