Colour Question?

[Jenny]

Okay, so I've always thought that Breaker was just a solid chestnut, but I've been informed that since he has a partial blue eye, he carries some sort of pinto! I think it would be fun to have him tested just out of curiosity. Any suggestions on what I should have him tested for, or what you think he has? His dam is LWO positive with two blue eyes, but from what I can tell from the pictures, she only has white on her face like Breaker. Here are some pictures of his face, body and eye:

 

[srminiatures]

Cant help but hes super cute =) love his face =)

 

[Jenny]

Thank you srminiatures

 

[srminiatures]

but ya know he looks like a sliver bay not a chestnut but again that doesn't help on the pinto part.... And just wondering but does he have a white spot on his neck????

 

[Jenny]

Hmmm... silver bay. Never thought of that, his sire is bay so it might be possible. It's not a white spot, I think it might be shaved, these are photos of him when he was at his old owners so not sure, but I can see how it could look like a white spot.

 

[Jenny]

Another question: Breakers tail is about 50% black or dark brown and 50% light cream colour, is this normal for chestnuts, or this an indication of a different colour? In a lot of pictures, his mane and tail look very red, but in reality are not. Going off topic here, but thought I'd ask anyway.

 

[srminiatures]

o ok got ya... This here is a picture of a sliver bay stallion at the farm I work for....

 

[Jenny]

I don't think Breaker is a silver bay, just because his legs are lighter rather than darker than his body, but I could be wrong. That stallion is very cute.

 

[srminiatures]

now silver bay like silver black can come in different shades but it would explain his mane &tail colors...

 

[MindyLee]

I say silver bay or silver chestnut.

But the mane/tail really screams silver something!

Blue eye? cant help there BUT he sure is cute/nice lookin!

Here's a silver bay (clipped) I sold yrs back. His coat was redish/chestnut and mane/tail whiteish/grey.

Sire is a bay

dam silver dapple

 

[Jenny]

Thanks MindyLee and srminiatures! I think I remember reading that the silver gene does not show on red-based horses? I could be wrong. Yes, I've always been a bit curious of his mane and tail, it's not what I typically see in chestnut horses, but I haven't been around horses for that long so it could be normal. MindyLee, that little guy is adorable.

 

[Miniv]

I vote for Silver Bay as well. And with his facial markings I'm suspecting Sabino.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I do not think he is silver bay, as you noted yourself he doesn't have darker (even marginally) legs than his body. In the picture of the silver bay stallion posted if you look at his lower legs they have a greyish/silverish cast to them that is typical of silver on bay. A mixed mane and/or tail (one with black hairs blended into lighter ones, either black, flaxen or black with red or all three) is not uncommon for a sorrel (chestnut) And your understanding is what is accepted by most - altho there are still those who insist otherwise, experts say that silver does not show on red so a silver chestnut isn't possible.

also, I think if you are curious (he's a gelding so it is just for your info) you should test for LWO. I expect if his mother was positive she may have passed the gene to him which he expresses by the blue in his eye

 

[Jenny]

Thanks Miniv and Reignmaker! Another reason I think he is just chestnut is that he is very bright red in the winter, and the photos of silver bays I've seen so far are all a very silvery colour, Breaker's coat doesn't have that at all. Reignmaker, is there anything else you would recommend testing for, or is LWO the only possibility? Here are some more photos, this time in winter:

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well you could certainly test for sliver if you want to confirm what you (and I) already believe. Besides that you could test for Sabino but there is more than one type of that and only a test for the one. There is no point in testing for red/black because if he carried a black gene you would see it, as you would if he had a creme gene. So basically its a question of what you want to know about. LWO is a real possibility since his mother was positive and sabino (which I don't consider worthwhile for the most part, as far as I am aware, you can only rule out or confirm one type)and silver which could be hiding under red. Oh so then you might want to test for agouti (bay) to confirm or deny silver bay. So that's 4 options that I can think of.

 

[Jenny]

Thanks Reignmaker, that helps a lot. I don't think I'll test him for silver or agouti, as when I look at him in person (now and in the summer) he is obviously chestnut as he has very RED hair. He is a bit of a darker chestnut, and his dam is very dark (like a very dark brown) and they call her a liver chestnut. I will for sure test him for LWO. What about splash? Can I test for that?

 

[chandab]

Have you body clipped him for summer? If so, the clipped color can sometimes help tell the actual color. I know many say it doesn't; but so far, I've found that my chestnuts when clipped keep their reddish cast (ok, so clipped its a bit of a pinkish coloring), whereas my silver blacks and silver bays clip a silver or grey color.

Here's Showy, my chestnut with flaxen mare:



Here's Tana, my silver bay dun (hard to see it here, but her coat looks silvery grey when clipped):



My silver buckskin stallion:

Head/neck shaved with winter coat:



summer coat:

 

[jess - bentley]

Hi, I am thinking because your horse has a partial blue eye and some white on his face that he might be a tovero. I am not sure about silver bay? His mane and tail do look to have some silver, but his coat looks somewhere between bay and chestnut. I guess a light bay? He is a good looking horse!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Yes, you could certainly test him for splash as well as tobiano (which would help to prove or disprove whether he can accurately be called tovero altho that is mostly a name for a visual pattern combo and not well accepted in some parts of the world - its mostly a North American thing I think) There is the possibility he carries any of the pinto genes even if he doesn't display them in obvious pinto patterning.

 

[Jenny]

Thanks chandab and jess!

jess, I don't think he is bay, as his legs are lighter rather than darker than the rest of his coat.

chandab, I didn't clip him this summer, but I do have photos of him when he was head and neck clipped last year: