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Color Testing a Perlino/Cremello

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StarRidgeAcres

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I have a new horse arriving next week!
It's a horse I've wanted for YEARS but he was never available. Then he becomes available and due to a serious of unfortunate happenings I missed out.
Then he becomes available again and STILL things don't work out. Long, long story which a few of you on here have been privy to. Well, I'll believe it for sure when he's in my barn, but it appears like he may actually be mine!
(They cashed the check and it's cleared my bank
)

So, my question is...

He's registered as a Cremello but I believe him to be a Perlino. Both parents are buckskins - no question about that. I'm planning on testing for Red/Black Factor, Agouti, and Silver. What else? I want to confirm that he's A) really a perlino, B) is he homozygous for black and C) does he carry the silver gene. I want to know what I'm going to get when I breed him to my red-based mares in particular.

The color thing is both fascinating to me and very confusing at the same time.
 

Miniv

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He sounds exciting!!! Be sure to post pictures, okay??????

Since he obviously carries the cream gene, you'd probably want to test for agouti (bay) to verify whether or not he's perlino or cremello.......and the silver gene.........and yes, black. Sounds like you've got it all covered.
 

crponies

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No, the agouti would not prove he is perlino vs. cremello. Cremellos can have agouti just as chestnut/sorrel and palomino horses can without showing it. What agouti would prove is that he is perlino vs. smoky cream. The red factor test will tell you perlino/smoky cream vs. cremello. Do either of his parents seem to be silver buckskin? If they are definitely regular buckskin and not silver buckskin, there is no reason to test for silver as he could not have inherited it if they didn't have it to pass on. So, test for the red factor and agouti and based on his parents test for silver.
 

faithfarm

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If both parents are buckskins and not silver buckskins, there is no reason to test for silver; it would show on the parents. If the horse is perlino, it will test positive for black and the agouti is a given, since it is not a smokey black. If it is cremello it will test negative for black and the agouti doesn't matter. There is at least a 75% chance of agouti since both parents have at least 1 copy of the agouti gene.

Economically speaking, for $25 you can tell if he is perlino, by testing for black. And, in case he is negative for black, for another $25 you can tell if he carries agouti.

Rick

Jayne, sorry to step on your post, it wasn't up when I started typing.
 
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StarRidgeAcres

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If both parents are buckskins and not silver buckskins, there is no reason to test for silver; it would show on the parents. If the horse is perlino, it will test positive for black and the agouti is a given, since it is not a smokey black. If it is cremello it will test negative for black and the agouti doesn't matter. There is at least a 75% chance of agouti since both parents have at least 1 copy of the agouti gene.
Economically speaking, for $25 you can tell if he is perlino, by testing for black. And, in case he is negative for black, for another $25 you can tell if he carries agouti.

Rick
Rick, his parents look to the eye to be regular buckskins, but I thought I read that it was possible for a buckskin to not look silver but actually carry the gene. Is that false?

Also, if I understand correctly, if he tests positive for black he's for sure a perlino? Not possible something else? Sorry to be so dense about this!
 

crponies

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Well, cream can inhibit the silver gene from showing. I'm not sure to what extent. Now that you said that, I think I remember Rabbit posting that not too long ago. I suppose you can go ahead and test for silver if you want to be absolutely certain. Also, if he test positive for black he could be a smoky cream so you still might want to test for agouti anyhow.
 

gvpalominominis

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Many creme horses are 'mis' color diagnosed, because they can seemingly 'appear' one or the other color... Perlino, Smokey Cream or Cremello. They are all double dilutes. My Smokey Creme stallion appears if you look at him, to be a Cremello... white body, mane and tail. But there is a BIG difference genetically from being a Cremello. The big difference, although they both are 'double dilutes' CrCr.... the Smokey Creme is a black based colored horse diluted by the creme gene and the Cremello is a red based colored horse with the dilution. He was from a Palomino mare and a Buckskin sire. I believe it is correct that the Perlino is the dilution of a Bay based colored horse.

It is only the Cremello (red based horse) when bred to another red horse is homozygous (100%) for Palomino (also red based) offspring. So it can really make a difference in some Palomino breeding programs. It pays to make sure the color DNA test is done prior to purchase if it makes a difference to you since you can't always tell just by looking at them. Otherwise... you'll end up with some off colored foals and go "Huh?" .
 

chandab

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Also, if I understand correctly, if he tests positive for black he's for sure a perlino? Not possible something else? Sorry to be so dense about this!
If he tests positive for black; then he's either perlino (black plus agouti (bay) plus two cream genes) or smokey cream (black plus two cream genes). You would need to do the agouti test to verify perlino (vs smokey cream).

Buckskin is black based, so silver will show on buckskin. [i've read that cream can affect how strongly silver is expressed, but silver will definitely show on buckskin by lightening mane/tail and legs.]
 

faithfarm

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If the parents are true buckskins, they will have dark brown to black points. If this is the case, there is no reason to test for silver; it is not there.

I agree that the perlino and smokey creme would both test for black and the agouti test would tell for sure. I would think that you should actually be able to see the different shading on legs of a perlino but for $25 you'll know for sure.

Rick
 
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StarRidgeAcres

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I've got a LOT of palomino mares so what I'm hoping for is a buckskin producer. Hopefully, a perlino stallion crossed with my many red mares will give me a few buckskins.
My understanding is that a perlino crossed with a sorrel/chestnut will give me (roughly) a 50%+ chance of a buckskin, a 33%+ chance of a palomino and some small percentage of smokey black foals. If he's confirmed to be homogygous black then I will get 85%+ buckskin and 15% smokey black with no palominos. If he's homogygous for Agouti and black then I get 100% buckskins. Sound right to you experts??
 

Joanne

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I agree with Rick that if he has a strong black or brown mane and tail there is no need to check for silver.
 

rabbitsfizz

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Let's just put this out there so it is clear....Silver does NOT necessarily show on Buckskin.

FACT!!!!

A "normal" looking Buckskin CAN have Silver.

FACT.

The black mane and tail and points of a Silver Buckskin canlook exactly the same as an ordinary, non-Silver carrying Buckskin...look at Buckaroo

Theory:

Cream inhibits the expression of Silver.

So, I would certainly test for Silver if you have any reason to believe it is present.

Then Black/Agouti and Red need also to be tested if you want to know exactly what is going on.

Are you sure he isn't Pinto as well
 

Mona

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Parmela, if you are paying by CC and sending testing to Equine Genetics, what I would do is instruct them to test for black. If he is negative, no further testing required or requested, as that would mean he is cremello. If positive, then request that they test further for agouti. If he carries it, he is perlino, if not, he is smokey cream.
 

Vertical Limit

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Parmela, if you are paying by CC and sending testing to Equine Genetics, what I would do is instruct them to test for black. If he is negative, no further testing required or requested, as that would mean he is cremello. If positive, then request that they test further for agouti. If he carries it, he is perlino, if not, he is smokey cream.
I am NO color expert but I never thought he was cremello either......always thought perlino. And I agree with what Mona says above.
 

MBhorses

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We had our cremello pinto stud tested, because we wanted to know.

He tested a silver perlino pinto.

here is want we tested him for

We tested for Tobiano,LWO,

[SIZE=10pt]Red Factor,Agouti,Cream Dilution,[/SIZE]
Silver Dilution[/b]
1/28/2008A151321Miniature HorseVelvet Farms Kiowas Dusty Special[SIZE=10pt]-[/SIZE]

[SIZE=8pt]here are the results[/SIZE]

nn[SIZE=10pt]Ee[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]Aa[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]CrCr[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]nZ[/SIZE]



Folks told me there was no need to test for silver, but i was wanting to know.WOW i was suprise he tested to have a silver gene, you never know.

Folks were surprise he had silver in him. He dam looks cremello but has not been tested, we think she is perlino. His sire is palomino pinto.I am thinking he got the silver from his dam.our stud mane is very white.

here is who we used http://www.equinetesting.com/Equine.htm
 
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Songcatcher

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Regarding color listed on registration, AMHA will list Perlino on the registration certificate, but they do not have a code for it on the Online Studbook. There it will be listed as Cremello. I don't know about AMHR as I don't have their online Studbook, however, the horsestudbook.com does list Perlino.
 

crponies

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Rabbit, I guess I haven't really looked into Buckaroo's offspring to know that he is a silver buckskin. That is interesting information as he definitely does look like a normal buckskin.
 

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