Color Question

[Bonny]

Is the sabino gene responsible for causing socks and blazes in an otherwise solid horse?

 

[Songcatcher]

Many times, yes. But they can also be caused by Splash and socks by Tobiano.

Edited: I know of a number of horses registered as Solid with socks who test positive for Tobiano, some even homozygous.

 

[Riverrose28]

Features of the sabino, A patch or patches on the underside at belly, girth, or breast, following the underside of the neck: Body white appears to run vertically up the body, terminating in irregular peaks or splashes of diminishing size: Chinspot: White legs with white hooves and at least on white leg with diminishing spear or^ point edge: ticking:

This was taken from a book I have on coat color.

From my experience you can not tell if a mini carries this gene simply by looking at them, reason being I own a solid gray/silver stallion that carries this gene and throws it in colorful foals, of all colors. One thing they have in common is a chin spot, white on the face and at least one white sock or stocking, usually more and the white is vertical with a spear. Some of mine also have white on their bellies.

 

[Bonny]

Thank you for the replies, its not so much that I want to know about sabino, as much as I am curious where horses get blazes and socks.

I realize that tobi and splash and sabino can cause white as well as socks, what I am curious about is in a non *pinto/ paint* horse, but a solid horse, what causes them to have a sock or a blaze?

For instance a mare that has no pinto/ paint in her back ground but has 3 socks. If she is bred to a horse that is solid, and the foal has socks, what causes this? Is it related somehow to sabino or could it also be splash or Tobiano? My question doesnt necessarily pertain to just minis, but horses in general, any non pinto / paint breed.

 

[ohmt]

Socks and a blaze can be caused by just sabino-at least I believe it can. I know some believe ALL face white is caused by splash, but I think I've pretty much proven that's not the case with my horses through the years of breeding. I have a solid black mare with slight sabino roaning (heaviest under her belly) and so far all 5 of her foals have had blazes and they were either by a solid (solid chestnut Kahoka bred stallion) or appaloosa. As for the socks-I have a friend with a bay sabino mare that just has a blaze and socks. She tested negative for tobiano and frame.

 

[Songcatcher]

Thank you for the replies, its not so much that I want to know about sabino, as much as I am curious where horses get blazes and socks.

I realize that tobi and splash and sabino can cause white as well as socks, what I am curious about is in a non *pinto/ paint* horse, but a solid horse, what causes them to have a sock or a blaze?

For instance a mare that has no pinto/ paint in her back ground but has 3 socks. If she is bred to a horse that is solid, and the foal has socks, what causes this? Is it related somehow to sabino or could it also be splash or Tobiano? My question doesnt necessarily pertain to just minis, but horses in general, any non pinto / paint breed.

Short answer, "any of the above." Socks and blazes can be minimal expressions of any of the "Pinto" genes. Any white marking can be considered a "Pinto" gene of one sort or another, but the Pinto and Paint associations will only recognize it if there is a certain amount of white on the body above the knees/hocks.

Consider this Solid Black mare with socks:

Bred to this Solid Black stallion with Star and snip:

That breeding produced the following filly:

 

[Bunnylady]

As I understand it, Sabino isn't one gene, it's a whole family of genes (there is only a genetic test for one of them), which is why you sometimes hear it referred to as "the Sabino complex." Any of these genes can put white on a horse's feet and/or face. Most of the time, if the blaze is fairly symmetric left/right, you are most likely looking at Sabino. At least one of the Sabino genes can cause white hairs on the body of the horse, either in patches or on the whole body (Sabino roaning). A maximum expression Sabino can be almost all white! A lot of people don't recognize "chrome" as being caused by what is thought of as a "pinto gene," but it is. Occasionally, two fairly conservatively marked horses produce a "crop out" foal that has a lot more white, one that is clearly what most people would call a pinto.

Songcatcher, that filly looks like a typical Tobiano to me; do you know which parent carries the Tobi gene?

 

[Bonny]

Ok I think I understand better.

I was just curious what gene caused socks and blazes.

Soooo, now that that question is well underway, I have another...

What are the odds of passing on blazes and socks?

 

[Riverrose28]

Maybe some one with genetic knowledge can answer that question, but I have a sabino bay stllion with a large white blaze and four white socks that we only breed to one or two mares a year. (When the economy warents it that is) and all except one of his foals the last seven years have born a solid color with blazes and white socks. his one and only foal last year was a line back dun, but he was bred to a dun. the mare took over here.

 

[Songcatcher]

Songcatcher, that filly looks like a typical Tobiano to me; do you know which parent carries the Tobi gene?

Absolutely. The mare is lab tested heterozygous for Tobiano. I expect she also carries one of the Sabino genes but is not tested for that. The sire is lab tested LWO positive and negative for Tobiano. I suspect he also carries a Sabino gene as he has some roaning throughout his body. He has produced at least two Max White foals (NOT lethal) It has also been suggested to me by some pretty knowledgeable people that he carries Splash. Sure wish there was a test for that. The filly is lab tested to be LWO positive as well. No need to test for Tobiano as she can only be heterozygous for that as the sire does not have it. I think Sabino is pretty obvious in her as well and possibly Splash. She has one blue eye.

 

[Songcatcher]

What are the odds of passing on blazes and socks?

About50/50. Of course that depends on what you breed it to.

 

[Dona]

As I understand it, Sabino isn't one gene, it's a whole family of genes (there is only a genetic test for one of them), which is why you sometimes hear it referred to as "the Sabino complex." Any of these genes can put white on a horse's feet and/or face. Most of the time, if the blaze is fairly symmetric left/right, you are most likely looking at Sabino. At least one of the Sabino genes can cause white hairs on the body of the horse, either in patches or on the whole body (Sabino roaning). A maximum expression Sabino can be almost all white! A lot of people don't recognize "chrome" as being caused by what is thought of as a "pinto gene," but it is. Occasionally, two fairly conservatively marked horses produce a "crop out" foal that has a lot more white, one that is clearly what most people would call a pinto.

Songcatcher, that filly looks like a typical Tobiano to me; do you know which parent carries the Tobi gene?

She looks like the "typical" Tobiano EXCEPT for the facial white marking. Tobiano does not put white on the face. That has to be caused by an Overo gene, such as Sabino, Splash or Frame. So, she is actually what I would consider a Tovero.