cart questions, please chime in if you know the answers

[Carolyn R]

Sorry to be a pest, but when I order another cart I want to be as informed as possible.

First off, does the pacific carriage co. ever run holiday or show season sales? (don't laugh)

Next, does the winged corduroy seat on the Jerald cart have a deeper seat/taller back than the Graber seats?(just trying to hide the junk in my trunk)

Third, if you all had a choice and you were between showing the breed shows (country pleasure) and seriously checking into the CDEs, and would end up doing a touch of each, which would you choose.....

A Smart Cart

OR

a show cart like a Graber or Jerald and a Hyperbike

Right now the smart cart and a hyperbike are out, way over on the cart budget if I do that.

Last, do used Smart Carts ever show up, LOL.

I like the Grabers, have had two, I am always looking to upgrade, a better fit for the horse, a bigger wheel, a smoother ride.....

 

[nbark]

You are funny Carolyn, lol

I have the smart cart, I named it 401, for obvious reasons and have a little license plate on the back with that number...

I do the CDEs and trail drive and I love the smart cart. I too went WAY over budget, robbed the 401 but was the best investment I made because it is so versatile...I am now going to pairs and my smart cart turns into a genius cart by removing the shafts and adding a pairs pole....not to mention all the other adjustments that can be made to fit the horse properly and to balance it out, which a lot of carts can't do..The shafts adjust for length, the shaft base adjusts for height, the seat adjusts, the floor adjusts, the airbags adjust...It is truly an amazing cart and the reason you don't see them up for sale used AND if you did see them used, they wouldn't be much cheaper than brand new, which also makes them a great investment.

As for them being on sale, I doubt it, but you never know....Hope this helps a little

 

[susanne]

Carolyn,

I hope you can hang on for a bit, as several members who drive the carts you have mentioned and who can answer all or most of your questions are on "vacation."

If you need your answer immediately, feel free to email me and I can get answers for you.

 

[Carolyn R]

I am sure hoping they can revisit this topic when they are"back in town". Any input is greatly appreciated. I love the look of the smart carts, but I am thinking there really may be other better choices for me out there.

 

[Minimor]

As far as I know Pacific Carriage doesn't do sales....but they DO give some nice discounts on options when you're a repeat buyer!

Third, if you all had a choice and you were between showing the breed shows (country pleasure) and seriously checking into the CDEs, and would end up doing a touch of each, which would you choose.....A Smart Cart

OR

a show cart like a Graber or Jerald and a Hyperbike

No contest, the Smart Cart! For me a Jerald or Graber would be for the showring only--for cross country driving there's just no comparison to the Smart Cart in terms of a comfortable ride and durability. The hyperbike just isn't something I would personally consider. I know some people love them, but I simply do not care for them & have no interest in owning one.
And yes, used Smart Carts do come up for sale; I've seen at least two advertised. Neither had been used very much, as I recall, and they were still right up there in price.

 

[Elizabeth Pannill]

I finally decided on a Pacific Smart Cart . I debated and debated but decided it was worth the $$ . I have a 33 " mini and a 36 " mini. The cart will be used for the larger one but I have driven it to my 33 " mini and he did fine but we were on a flat surface. My main interest in driving is pleasure driving ,CDE and driving trials .

My younger larger mini is still at the trainers ( a trainer who drives full size horses ) . She has been very impressed with the Smart Cart and says it is a smoother ride than some of her large carriages.

Although, it may not be totally appropriate , I plan to use the Smart cart if I ever show in local breed shows.

Elizabeth

 

[Margo_C-T]

I think the Smart Cart is a lovely vehicle, but I stand by my opinion that, for a driver my size(I weigh around 180 lbs.)at least, it may well be too 'much' for an A sized mini. This is based on personal observation...a friend of mine bought a Smart Cart, used it here one time when we had a casual 'fun day' of obstacle driving, etc. in my arena -- which is both level and good footing- firm, but not 'hard'. Her horse was a 36" gelding of medium build;not 'highly' conditioned, but young and in good shape in every way. I both saw her drive and got to drive him myself. I noted that he was clearly having to put noticable effort into pulling the cart, even under these modest 'working' circumstances.I just can't see MOST A sized horses managing it on tough terrain or course(and with all due respect, I'd have to see for myself,a 29" horse handily pulling a Smart Cart, with even an 'average-sized' adult, to be convinced if that's a good idea.)

My Bennington weighs just at 110 lbs., it is fine for me with my 37" horse; the 'Missouri Flyer' I recently sold, fully outfitted, almost exactly the same(which is why I sold it; I'd wanted something NOTABLY lighter in weight but with the same features for my A horses, and despite reports to the builder(by another buyer) of a notably lighter weight, it didn't 'end up' that way)...it was a great cart, but I already owned one 'like it', as it turned out...the Benny...and didn't need two of essentially the same thing.

I am STILL 'on the hunt' for a cart with the features that I desire...wide steel (or aluminum) wheels, good suspension(whether it be torsion bars, half elliptical, or whatever), low draft, sturdy construction and finish, a DEEP (front to back;I LOVE the Benny's 17" deep, 3" 'thick' dense foam seat; find the GREATEST drawback to all of the 'pipe' EE carts I've seen, including Frontier, which I consider the 'best of the lot', to be the very shallow-most are 11-12" at best-and 'thin'--only 2" foam--seats; either a single seat or some 'set up' with a wedge and 'sides', to keep you 'in place' on fast manuevering, an easy entry feature, and a roomy 'basket', and marathon, or at the least, 'gooseneck, gig-type shafts. There are now several carts that I'm aware of 'out there' that come close...the newest model from Bellcrown, the newer Bennington(which is now pretty pricey to purchase, due to the drop in the value of the US dollar-and this before you consider shipping it from England!); even the PNW-originating "Scotsman"(except it has that shallow, thin, seat thing going on, best I can tell, yet IMO is kind of 'pricey'compared to its competitors)... I have recently begun to 'think about' a Hyperbike, purely due to its TRULY light weight, but...I don't really care for its WIDE wheelbase, nor how challenging it is to 'mount'(I'm old!), and am not at all sure I'd like the 'feet up all the time' driving position...so not sure I could/would 'go that route'...I still need to do --MORE RESEARCH!!

If I were lighter weight myself, my 'short list', for an 'all purpose' cart that would be fully suitable for CDEs, would include the Smart Cart ; for me personally, I'd look at the Bellcrown, and if I could scare up the money(!!) would also consider the 'new' Bennington for minis. The 'Missouri Flyer' is not being built(builder became ill, isn't building anymore, so I heard), or it would be included. Don't know if Russ Hardwick,the man who builds the 'Tadpole' pair vehicle, is building a two-wheeler for minis, but if he is, I'd look at it! All of the ones above that are currently being built have excellent reputations and experience behind them, and I think that is important. Seems there are new entries into the mini vehicle market all the time, nowadays, so there may well be some I've yet to hear about/discover...hope anyone who comes across any will share here!

(On the question about the wingback seat? From photos I've seen, it appeared that the Houghton might have the 'deepest' wingback. Of course, they went out of business; their assets were sold to Jerald...but used ones might occasionally come available. My friend who bought the Smart Cart sold that horse, then sold the SC, locally and quickly, for what she paid new, less her shipping cost.)

Margo...still in search of the 'perfect' cart! The Benny 'does it' for the larger mini, but I've yet to find what I'd REALLY like for the A sizes!

 

[Minimor]

Margo I don't understand how you can possibly consider the Smart Cart too heavy, even for the 36" horse your mention, when it's only 5 lbs heavier than your Bennington, which you say is wonderful for a 37" horse?

 

[Margo_C-T]

Lori, read my entire post again. What I said was that I consider it too heavy for A sized horses when the driver is around my weight, which I listed. Might there be the occasional 'extra tough' horse who could 'do it all' with this cart and someone of my weight driving...sure, there might be...heck, I have one myself, 33 1/2" and pretty darned refined, but with the heart of a LION and the will to work until he DROPS...but that doesn't mean I will actually EXPECT, or ASK, him to do so; it wouldn't be fair or ethical. I love him; would never want to do him harm.

Actually, I should have been more specific. My 'old' larger mini, with whom I used the Benny exclusively, was actually right AT 38", and a strong 'puller'; she had NO issues, ever, with the Benny. I have not yet driven my new 37" gelding to the Benny, but he is quite stout--built pretty much like an original UK Shetland, actually, so shouldn't have any issues with it either- but I will admit, I don't yet know that for sure.

I would not ask any of my A horses--out of the six miniatures I have left, I have five A sized, four of which drive, ranging from a tough 32" through a refined 33 1/2" to two 'right at, honestly', 34", of medium build-to pull a Smart cart, with me as the driver, anywhere but on firm and level terrain, for any appreciable length of time. It's not so much that I believe that they flatly 'couldn't'; it's that I don't think it would be fair to them to ask them to do so.

With all due respect--I believe it behooves thoughtful miniature horse owners to always try NOT to 'overface' their driving horses. I have seen it happen(though thankfully, not frequently)--and one of the worse results is what such situations can cause other drivers, and indeed, even reasonable members of the general public, to think of miniature horse drivers. Like many others, I believe most miniature horses ARE tough, pound for pound, but even so,I STRONGLY believe that good and considerate judgement should always, ALWAYS, be used.

Flames to Joe Price....

Margo

 

[susanne]

Margo, when you find that perfect cart, I'll be placing my order, too! It seems. My wish list includes versatility -- the ability to cover most driving circumstances. Comfortable, lightweight, lightweight, interchangeable seats (single to double), rugged enough for trail, good looking (or with options to dress it up)...and if it converts to roadster or high clearance for trail, all the better. And with all of this, you shouldn't have to mortgage your home to afford it!

So far, several carts come close, but they don't quite have it.

Margo, speaking as one with serious leg and back issues, I'll say that if I can comfortably drive a Hyperbike, just about anyone can. Getting in, I either step over one shaft and then sit and put my legs up, or I sit down and swing both legs over (and around). The bucket seat is extremely comfortable, and the stirrups can be rotated around to where your foot rests lower than the shaft on the outside. -- a few inches make a big difference. The only caution is to not do like I did -- I did a marathon in the hyperbike without taking time to stretch my legs...

I think youn need to come up for our beach drive next summer and try it out!

 

[Carolyn R]

Okay Susanne, spill it. If several carts come close in your opinion, lets hear them. I want all the input I can get!

 

[nbark]

My A mini pulls me in the Smart Cart and I am 10 lb heavier than Margo and we do trails, ADTs, and CDEs..as someone said, it is only 5 lb more than most carts on the market today but is totally adjustable to balance out for any mini from 30 to 38 (?) I believe. When I bought mine, the dealer came to my barn and "fitted" it out to my mini....Just some added info....

 

[Minimor]

I'm Holly, not Lori...

I know, Margo, you've always maintained that the Smart Cart is too heavy for the A horses, but now you've also said that it was too heavy for a 36" horse and that's what I was commenting on earlier. You're convinced that it's too heavy for the A horses and yet it seems you're basing your opinion on one drive with one horse? A 36" horse that acted as if the cart was too heavy for him to pull comfortably. I can assure you that this cart is not too heavy for the average 36" horse, so for whatever reason that particular horse wasn't a good or fair test of the cart. Are you absolutely sure that the cart was adjusted so that it was balanced right for him? Are you sure that he didn't have anything going on physically that made him a poor driving prospect--a seemingly sound horse can have hock issues that make pulling difficult.

I've barely used my cart on my smaller Minis (and I don't have many that are under 34" anyway, and those are just barely under 34") but others that do drive smaller ones on it say the cart is okay for them. I trust that some of them, maybe most of them, know that they are not overfacing their horses by driving them on this cart. I don't know the weight of those drivers; my own weight is somewhat less than yours--they may be lighter or heavier, I don't know. But, I don't think it's entirely fair to tell everyone repeatedly that a specific cart is too heavy for a certain size when there are so many other factors to consider (driver weight is one) and when you've only used the cart once on one horse.

 

[Shari]

Of all the carts I have owned, sat in and pulled around or have driven for mini's. so far.. (Did not include a smart cart yet) my Country Road Cart has the best suspension, I bought the cloth seats and the back rest is perfect for me. Lots of room for my legs and over all a nice cart. I have only done trail with it. Walking and trotting mostly... some canter up hills. But I would not recommend it for any mini under 33"... even if they were in shape.

I had mine weighed at 110lb with the wooden wheels and dashboard. Maggie is fine with it on the flat but needs to be in good shape with the weight I have now to drive hills.

I want a Hyper bike soooo bad!! But with the damage to my back.. I was in some serious pain after my short drive.. I did last year or so ago. Would have to see about driving in one again now and see if I have the same issues. But weight wise.. that would be perfect for Maggie. I also love how wide the wheels are.

My Country Road Cart doesn't bother my back at all, that is how nice the ride is.

Wish they could come up with a strong..nice looking cart weighing at most about 50 to 60lbs.

 

[Carolyn R]

Would this cart, with proper wheels, be appropriate for the marathon portion of the course? (or is the wheel base too narrow?)I plan on getting a hyperbike but until I do.......

I love this cart, and my boy trucks around in it with no issues. I wish the maker still advertised them (lignite carriage company)

 

[MiLo Minis]

Yup SHE'S Holly - I am Lori!

And I didn't chime in on this thread because I don't have a wide range of carts that I have used - just make do with my several easy entry metal training carts, 2 wooden Meadowbrook style carts and Graber show cart. Although I often drool over a Smart Cart and actually did get to drive in one once I have not had the budget that would allow me to actually acquire one. Someday.......

 

[Margo_C-T]

My apologies for mis-addressing you, Holly.

All I want to add is that what I have given is MY OPINION, and I made that clear. Your OPINION may well be different, and that's fine-in fact, how it is supposed to be. I am curious, though, as to how you believe 'fairness' enters in? You and anyone else are PERFECTLY free to disregard my opinions, as I am, yours.

I won't get into a long treatise on why I formed my opinion, but do, please, give me credit for having considered the points you bring up...I am well-versed in my subject, and such items as conformational issues and proper cart balance WERE in fact specifically considered...I didn't start doing this yesterday. I'll just say, I am comfortable with my reasoning; my opinion wasn't arrived at lightly, and I stand by it as I've stated.

I am sure that those who do their research and consider all factors unique to THEIR circumstances will make a good decision for THEM, and can rightfully be happy with the results, cartwise.

Margo

 

[MiLo Minis]

Would this cart, with proper wheels, be appropriate for the marathon portion of the course? (or is the wheel base too narrow?)I plan on getting a hyperbike but until I do.......I love this cart, and my boy trucks around in it with no issues. I wish the maker still advertised them (lignite carriage company)

Carolyn, you have a very sweet and willing little guy there if you have been driving him for any length of time in this cart the way it is set up in this picture. Your shafts are quite a way below the point of draft which is putting considerable weight on his back. You also seem to be perching on the edge of your seat rather than sitting back with your back almost but not touching the backrest which would be proper. The wheel base would not be the issue here although it does appear fairly narrow, the way the shafts are attached to the cart would be my major concern in a marathon course. There can be quite a bit of pressure applied to the shafts during a marathon and these ones could easily come off. I have actually had that happen just driving down the road in a cart built similarly that belonged to a client. I don't know what your cart weighs and appearances can be misleading but it looks to be a fairly heavy cart as well and as your little guy IS little

I think he would find it rather heavy going on a cross country course which can often have lots of ups and downs.

 

[Carolyn R]

No,thats my daughter and son just out for a quick ride about 2.5-3 years ago. I know better as far as the shaft placement, It just happens to be one of the clearer photos of the cart itself,

The cart is actually lighter, about 75LBS, but with suitable wheels I would still be looking at a substancial weight. I appreciate the input about the shafts. This is why I am here, to sponge up as much info as I can before I purchase another cart

You all are just giving me more and more leverage in my "argument" of reasons to try out a hyperbike when discussing things with my husband!

 

[Margo_C-T]

Shari, don't we ALL wish for a cart such as you mentioned!! I'm betting that someday, someone will produce one; just not sure how SOON!

I have the 'twin' to Shari's Country Road cart, built my her builder's brother! I completely agree with all she said about it, including its weight, and limitations thereof-as well as it's many 'pluses'! I've not actually used mine a lot, but did find it to be a bit 'weighty' for my 34" and unders on hills and on uneven/softer 'going'...again, I fully accept that MY size is a factor. I keep it because it IS such a comfy ride, and is suitable for turnout--would work for breed or pleasure ring, dressage, or cones. I wouldn't want to use it for marathon. I think water crossings would be hard on it, being wood, and, because it has 'straight' shafts, it just isn't going to be as manueverable under challenging course circumstances as one w/ marathon, or even 'just', gig-type 'gooseneck' shafts, like those on my 'original' Bennington mini cart, IMO.

Carolyn, the Lignite was well-regarded by many; I'd looked at Jim Dingman's website and strongly considered one, myself, a few years back. As far as being suitable for marathon...at Training level, I don't see why not! From what I observed, lots of mini horse drivers start there with the most basic of carts, like the Frontiers and other 'pipe' carts, right down to the pneumatic tires. It is only at the higher levels that 'stricter' requirements come into play, such as no pneumatic wheels/wire spokes(it is considered a safely issue by ADS--such wheels don't withstand side pressures such as may be encountered on marathon/hazard courses, as well, and may 'collapse' or 'fold'...NOT a good thing!)That IS your current cart, right? If so,IMO, I'd say you could CERTAINLY start with it, while you continue to gather info about ALL the other options.

Susanne...so you have a Hyperbike? I have some questions!

What is the 'on-the-ground' track width? Can it be driven(or even rolled, in-hand) through a 4' opening (gate)? I like to be able to drive though my several 'walk-though' gates on occasion, and all are 4" openings. It's my understanding that the Hyperbike is right at/around a 4' (48") track width; this wouldn't work to drive through 4' gates, I don't think! Also, if it IS a 4' track, have you found this to be any sort of a drawback?

Believe me, I WISH I could come up and 'play' with you guys at the beach drive, and/or Happs!! I would love, love, LOVE to, but first, I'd have to have less little 'dependents' here at home! Thanks for the 'invite', though; I will keep it in my heart!

Margo