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Can brown horses have dorsal stripes?

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TangoMango

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Once again asking opinions on this colts coloring. Can browns have a dorsal stripe? I dont think it is counter shading , he has it summer and winter and when he has been freshly clipped. He has darker face and lower leg, dark ear tips, but light inside his ear, and he seems to have guard hairs. Can any/all of these characteristics show in a brown horse? He is registered as a bay, but I just dont see how he is a bay. His mane and tail are not black but very similar in color to his body , maybe a little bit darker.

I have pics of his dam and sire. But I dont think he could be grullo as stated before, because there is no dun in his parents.. Right? I also have a pic of him when he was a weany.

Thanks a again....

Dam



Sire



weany pic.bottom row, middle

 

ThreeCFarm

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There are dorsal stripes, and there is countershading. I had a bay mare that had a very distinct stripe down her back, but it wasn't a true dorsal stripe, as would be found in a dun.
 

TangoMango

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So, is there a way to discern whether it is a dorsal stripe or countershading?

Thanks !
 

rabbitsfizz

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I am presuming he did not grow up into the Grey??
I think he is a dark Red Dun- the mare could be Red Dun, the sire could easily "hide" the Dun factor, or it could be countershading, but I would not have expected it to still be there, it usually fades as the horse gets oder. I need better pictures- those are really nice as pictures but I need photos from the top and clearer to be absolutely sure but, from those pictures alone, I'm sure he's not Bay!!!
 

Dona

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I know the sire, and he is definitely a Silver Dapple. The dam also appears to be carrying the silver gene. I believe the colt is actually a line-back Silver Bay...but also possible that he is a dark Silver-Dun.
 

rabbitsfizz

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Hmm...no I had not considered that, Mama looks like a Sorrel but the picture is quite dark. If he were a Silver Dun the Silver would express on the mane and tail- they would be lighter than that, surely?? I also know that a lot of Silvers have a false dorsal, but it does fade- ie come and go. I do not actually think he is Silver.
 

Dona

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Well....it IS hard to tell in those pics. But, the colored part of his mane appears to be very light in the photo of him standing sideways in front of the Percheron. That's basically what I'm basing my "guess" on.


The manes on "silvers" can vary also....anything from brilliant silver/white, to brownish, and I've even seem some silvers whose manes & tails are "almost" black with just a few silver/gray hairs in them. So, they don't have to be a LOT lighter than the body color. But, you are right Rabbitfizz, on many Silvers having dorsals.
I bred one myself....a silver-dapple who had a VERY prominent dorsal/countershading. He had absolutely NO dun or buckskin in his background.
 

chandab

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Dona said:
Well....it IS hard to tell in those pics.  But, the colored part of his mane appears to be very light in the photo of him standing sideways in front of the Percheron.  That's basically what I'm basing my "guess" on.

The manes on "silvers" can vary also....anything from brilliant silver/white,  to brownish, and I've even seem some silvers whose manes & tails are "almost" black with just a few silver/gray hairs in them.  So, they don't have to be a LOT lighter than the body color.  But, you are right Rabbitfizz, on many Silvers having dorsals. 
  I bred one myself....a silver-dapple who had a VERY prominent dorsal/countershading.  He had absolutely NO dun or buckskin in his background.

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Is there a test for the silver gene? Or a way to determine it? I'm not positive if my yearling is just a light bay with sunbleaching (his mane and tail had no blondish hairs in January), or if silver might play a part in his coloring. Both his parents are buckskin and I was told neither have silver, but I don't have proof of such.
 
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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Dona said:
I know the sire, and he is definitely a Silver Dapple.  The dam also appears to be carrying the silver gene.  I believe the colt is actually a line-back Silver Bay...
432009[/snapback]

I agree with this and dont think this horse is a dun at all. I think many are quick to jump a horse with any countershading is a dun.. i still go with what the large horse world says and it takes more then just a dorsal to make a dun

I think your horse is carrying the silver gene many silvers as well as bays have a dorsal and that does not make them duns at all IMO
 

TangoMango

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Thanks everyone, I will get some better pics today and get them downloaded tonight.
 

rabbitsfizz

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Of course, were he to be Silver+ Dun it would explain the darker tail as the Dorsal would extend down into the mane and tail!!
 

TangoMango

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OK... here are pics from today, they are at weird angles, but I was trying to get specific points.

Let me know if these help any.











more in next post.
 

Dona

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OK.....I'm retracting my previous "guess". I see absolutely NO signs of Silver in any of these last photos.


He does appear to have a true dorsal & just look at all that creme colored hair in the ears! He has some dilution gene going on...and possibly more than one. Possibly a Smutty Dunskin pinto?
 

rabbitsfizz

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Or a Grulla?? His sire is Black based, so that is possible. Mama needs looking at to see where the Dun came from- I did think that was a Dorsal not countershading as it affected the tail colour- that is not a foolproof test but it usually is right in older animals.
 

TangoMango

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Ahhhh...LOL..... Im confused. So no one thinks he could be just plain brown? This color stuff always did and always will confuse me..

Thanks again
 

littlesteppers

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Can it be that the sire has the dun, the silver and 1 creme gene? Our smoky black has white ear hair like that..
 

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