Buying and selling your feelings.

[Firefall]

As a seller, do you consider a deposit as sold?

If you do, do you feel that the buyer is responsible for vet care on the horse if it gets sick possibly hurt while at your farm?

What if in the contract they signed you strongly recommend insurance since the horse is with others and in case of accidents or sickness, would you make them pay for it or how would you handle it?

What if they didn't insure the horse then what?

Typing up a new contract so I wanted to cover all the bases. Thank you for any input!

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I feel a deposit is just holding the horse, for a limited amount of time. If the horse isn't paid off completely or a different contract signed, that deposit is only valid for a short time. When the horse is paid for, or a payment contract signed, the horse is the buyer's and they assume all payments, risks, and obligations to the animal.

As far as insurance, I also highly suggest it on principle, not because the animal is in a herd. The buyer would be responcible for the payment once the horse is sold. While owned by the seller, the seller can do as they wish, but if the horse dies or is injured the deal is off or significantly modified. The buyer has no rights until the horse is paid for or a payment contract signed.

 

[~Lisa~]

well in reality no matter what the contract if buyer is paying you (and that could not mean board but mean included in the price of the horse) and the horse gets hurt while still in sellers care- if seller can be deemed negligent such as keeping said horse in with others or in a situation where it is reasonable the horse "could" get hurt then you are still responsible as the seller.

You can not sign away negligence is what my attorneys and family members who are attorneys always say

no different then the tickets you get when you have your car parked by a valet it says they have no responsibility at all yet if they crash your car and are found negligent.. you can bet they are responsible and will be founds so in a court of law.

That said it also depends is this a foal that can not yet leave it's dam? If so I think that would in my opinion anyway leave the seller responsible as the buyer has no choice but to leave the foal there.

I have been in this situation as a seller I sold a foal at a well I forget exactly now but a week or 2 old. She ended up getting sick we had strangles run thru the herd brought here by a vet (sigh) I of course paid for all the vet bills and let the new owner know. After some talk with her vet (before our cultures came back) she did not feel comfortable with the purchase and got her monies back.

It is not a matter of what you feel is fair to you as a seller or fair to you as a buyer for me (most of my buisness when it comes to selling is repeat buyers) it is about what I would want if the shoe were on the other foot and how I would expect or like to be treated.

Contracts are great but these are living breathing animals even though in the eye of the law they are nothing more then property.

 

[Mona]

I guess "negligence" can be seen in many ways. I personally do not feel that leaving a horse in with others that it is already pastured with and used to, to be negligent at all. In my opinion, it would be more negligent to pull the horse from it's "comfort zone" within a herd and keep it separated and have them act out in fear of being alone.

I feel negligence would be more along the lines of if you left the gate open and the horse ran out and got hit by a car, or if you kept it in a pasture with wads of barbed wire piles or dangerous implements...this sort of thing.

When I sell a horse, and if the deposit is received and payments are to be made, I state in my contract that new owner is from there on in responsible for all vet fees and death EXCEPT if due to my gross negligence.

 

[LisaB Ozark]

When I sell a baby - I require a 25% deposit. If something happens to the baby before it is weaned then I give the deposit money back (thank goodness that has never happened). If the buyer changes their mind then I keep the deposit. I am responsible for all bills until that baby is weaned.

On a weaned horse I require that they either pay 100% or that they pay 50% down and then they come and get the horse and rest of the monies is paid on payments. That way I am not responsible for the horse. They sign a contract that regardless of what happens to the horse once it is in their possession they still owe me the monies.

I have never had any problems at all. The simpler you can make a contract the better. I never keep a horse here until it is paid off - I feel that there are to many issues that can come up and would rather have the purchaser have those responsiblities. Of course you have to know you can trust the purchaser. I always feel that if I cant trust them for payments then I certainly would not trust them to have one of my horses.

Lisa

 

[wwminis]

[SIZE=14pt]As a seller, I feel that you are responsible for the well being and care of any horse that remains on your property until it delivered or shipped to it's new owner![/SIZE]

Once the horse is picked up by a transport, then it becomes the responsibility of the new owner! JMO!

Bill

 

[Slagle]

It is not a matter of what you feel is fair to you as a seller or fair to you as a buyer for me (most of my buisness when it comes to selling is repeat buyers) it is about what I would want if the shoe were on the other foot and how I would expect or like to be treated.

This is the same way I feel. I treat people the way I would want to be treated

 

[Annabellarose]

[SIZE=14pt]As a seller, I feel that you are responsible for the well being and care of any horse that remains on your property until it delivered or shipped to it's new owner![/SIZE]Once the horse is picked up by a transport, then it becomes the responsibility of the new owner! JMO!

Bill

From someone that is almost exclusively a buyer, I like this answer the best.

I do understand that sellers want and need to protect themselves, but if I, as a buyer, put a deposit on and/or started making payments on a horse and it poked its eye out on a tree limb while still on the seller's property I wouldn't think that the seller had committed "gross negligence" (crap happens), but I also probably wouldn't still want the horse and I wouldn't like it if the seller kept my deposit or the payments that I had paid up to that point (because the seller would not be providing me with the same "product" that I chose to buy, a two-eyed horse). I would want a full refund, including the deposit, and the seller would just be SOL, sometimes you just have to suck it up as something that wasn't meant to be (because crap happens).

I do agree that the seller should keep the deposit if a buyer changes their mind/backs out of a deal.

 

[Firefall]

Thanks everyone, I was thinking more about weaned horses.

However as a buyer I have been told to get insurance on weanlings since they are in a herd situation along with a stallion.

I didn't mind that and felt better that I did.

"When I sell a horse, and if the deposit is received and payments are to be made, I state in my contract that new owner is from there on in responsible for all vet fees and death EXCEPT if due to my gross negligence"

I totally agree with Mona on this.

 

[Charley]

Be sure to have a lawyer look at your contract and advise on wording. Many times we write something down the way we want, but it can be read a different way. It is wise to have it checked out by a professional who knows the state laws.

 

[~Lisa~]

Mona I personally do not consider that negligent either but again horses are deemed as property not animals in the eye of the law

I have heard of judges saying some pretty crazy things and truly not understanding the needs and normal day to day living conditions of horses

 

[JWC sr.]

Several points come to mind from where I stand on this.

1. The advice to have an Atty. review any legal document you may think of using to make sure it says what you intend it to say is excellent advice.

2. In our contract it specifically states that there are no cash refunds, only farm credit can or will be issued.

3. There is also a provision where if a horse dies, is severely injured or has some other catastrophic accident, then full farm credit will be issued for the purchase cost and/or down payment on the given horse on any horse left in our care.

4. We also require the new owner to insure the horse if they expect cash back under any of the above circumstances.

Bottom line is to try and treat peopel as you expect to be treated and at the same time protect the interest of the farm.