Buyers & Sellers, educate Me!

[Riverrose28]

I think I need an education! What do buyers want in an ad? For you sellers that are breeders, can you also explain to the buyers what it costs to get a foal to a sellable age!

Sorry but seems to me after reading some of these posts that buyers want it all, and not need to pay for it, for instance, some of them don't even look at pedigrees or show records. Some see a great color, and over look conformation, such as a big head. This list could go on and on.

I know my self that when I have a foal born it is $260 right up front for a well foal exam. If a dystocia, well into the thousands. As a seller I couldn't possably pass that cost off, but need to re-coup something. Also there are many other costs incurred when breeding, shots, hay, vet fees, time. Then when the foal is born, more time training, such as to stand in the cross ties, to be bathed, clipped, have their hooves trimmed, to walk, trot, and whoa!

I havn't had a foal born here since 2010 as I can't afford the vet fees anymore and I'm a resposable breeder, but I still have horses available but find when consigning them to on-line auctions that the feed back I get from here is that either the horses are not conformationaly correct or the starting price is too high. WHAT! I would very much like some answers, before restarting my breeding program.

Any answers will be appreciated, and taken to heart, and also I already show, so I know that AMHR/ASPC is what is hot, and that thw AMHA horse is something else, but question is what do buyers want in a ad, and for sellers what is an appropiate starting price?

 

[Minimor]

I haven't sold many but have bought plenty so...I will answer as a buyer.

Price--has to be within my price range. I understand perfectly well that my price range is below some people's 'must have' minimum price and that is okay -- I have had no problem finding horses I like within my price range.

Please note that I do not believe price indicates quality. I have bought some very high quality animals for very low prices; I have also seen some very poor quality animals listed for ridiculously high prices. So--I would add that the horse's price must not be higher than his quality.

I won't pay more for a show record--for one thing there are plenty of show winners out there that I would not have...I don't know how they ever win what they did! I won't pay extra for color. I don't really care about training. I have bought a number of in handled foals and yearlings and had no trouble taming them down. I won't pay extra for training--it is nice if the foal leads but if he doesn't walk, trot and pose at halter that is okay too. I enjoy training halter horses. I probably would not buy a trained to drive horse--I would rather get a youngster and train it myself, then I know what I have, no surprises.

What to see in an ad--price makes it easier but if there is no price I will inquire. If the ad includes a flowery spiel about how wonderful the horse's quality is, the pictures better match the description. So often I see ads that raveabout the horse's quality and then I look at the photo and think they must have posted a photo of the wrong horse--because the plain or even poorly confirmed horse pictured sure is no show candidate. If you describe a wonderful long hip then the horse better have one. Same goes for all the other wonderful descriptions--know what you have got and describe it honestly--because if the picture doesn't show the qualities you are describing I will pass it by.

I am interested in pedigree--but if someone says Michigan breeding then I hope the horse is truly of Michigan breeding and it isn't just that there is one Michigan prefix three generations back (substitute Buckeroo or whatever name you want in place of Michigan, that is just my example)--and I will add that for me "pedigree" means more than just the names on the papers--it includes conformation, movement, athletic ability etc etc etc of the horses on those papers. All that combined is pedigree.

 

[HGFarm]

As for price, it would absolutely vary by the quality and how badly they want to sell I guess. I can tell you that the market is NOT what it was just a few short years ago, regardless of quality.

I try to put the basics in my ads- age, size, registry, color, general pedigree info (I dont list them all, perhaps just a couple of basic ones) - if the horse is trained and to do what, or if a broodmare, etc... I try to keep it short and to the point. One of my pet peeves is looking at an ad that goes on and on and on........... if too long, I lose interest.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

One thing I refuse to pay for is big name bloodlines on a gelding, or a mare that can't be bred. They cant pass on those bloodlines, so why bother? A mare or stallion, I will always pay extra for a well conformated, reprodcutively sound one with great bloodlines - she will always hold some sort of "salvage" value as a broodmare. (i.e. gets a big ugly gash going through a fence, will be a litle off for life and ugly scar, but still in great health kind of a thing). When someone goes on and on about a pedigree on a gelding, I automaticaly figure they have nothing else good to say baout the horse. My personal philosophy.

On a gelding, conformation and training are the two things I will pay extra for. Geldings hold a value as a show horse, or a pet - that is their only real chance "to shine" or '"to be productive." I wil pay for a show record - depending on the horse. "Brings home blues at small shows in a class of 5" I refuse to pay extra for. A world champion? You bet I'll pay extra for!

I agree with the too long listing. I want to know if they horse has issues/talents, however, I dont want to know he prefers to eat apples on tuesdays. Pictures I like too. Not candids, but of the horse set up, and from a lot of angles.

 

[Riverrose28]

Thanks for all the responses so far! According to some of the previous posts on here, some want bred mares, some want open mares, what are your thoughts on that?

 

[dutchhollow]

I think in the online auction situation you would be better off with a low starting price, with a reserve if need be. I have been watching the online sales. The horses with the lower starting bids, often bring more bids (and most people will tell you at an auction, once they bid they are very likely to 'stay in') and sell for higher prices then the ones with higher starting bids (same quality horse (ie no big show wins).

The pedigree itself won't sell a horse to me, it has to stand on its own, if I like the conformation then a great pedigree is a plus (I mean two generations back the fact that great great great great grandpa was someone famous doesn't mean that much to me).

I think bred or not as a preference depends on too many factors to predict (breeders with their own stallions would probably want open, someone looking to show themselves for a while might want open, or someone just wanting a pet).

edited to add: Photos, good quality side, back and front (at minimum) taken from horse level. A photo of a dirty, hairy, horse taken from above, shows nothing, or makes things look worse then they are. Not saying you have to clip, but at least brush off the mud, get tangles out of mane, tail.

 

[lexischase]

I have never sold but am currently looking to buy. I have found it is extremely difficult to judge what the horse really looks like from poor photos in the field, or from very strange angles. I like specific details in the horses for sale description, short and sweet is great as long as its accurate about the animal being shown. I have been looking at farms throughout the US since I will buy and ship to me if I really think its the right fit. The more photos the better for me, I also really enjoy a video especially since I cannot get out to FL or TX to see the horse. Even short 1 minute clips are great to see! Gives a great idea of confirmation and movement without needing 25 photos. I have also seen very very nice show quality foals for CRAZY cheap money... It is definitely the buyers market! I am learning to really wait for the right one, because you do not need to spend $2000 or more to get a gorgeous colt or filly. I have seen foals WAY less than half of that. I have also seen horses listed for a lot more money and they are not half as nice. It is a hit or miss. I will continue to look till I find the right horse at the right price! The online auctions are great, I just missed the coast to coast sale and I am bummed. But nice shots of the horse posing or at least standing nicely is what I would like to see, not munching away on hay in their stall, and for me a video is always a huge plus!

 

[MountainWoman]

I think you learn along the way. I look first at the price of the horse and if the opening bid is 100.00 or very low, I don't look any further. You can't even have a vet come out and do shots for that kind of money let alone feed a mini so I wonder about the care the horse has gotten and if it's gotten care what is wrong with it that the breeder would let it go so cheaply. I also think that a lower opening price means the breeder might not care where the horse goes and just wants it sold. I don't mean to offend anyone by this statment. If somone has other things going on in their life and has hit a rough patch, it might be worth mentioning that.

Then I look at the breeder. Do I know them from the bulletin board, from other friends, from the mini world. Do they have a reputation I trust. Are they someone I can see having a long term relationship with. If I can answer yes to those questions then I look at the horse. One thing you don't get on the auctions is a sense of the horse's temperament and that's where you have to trust the breeder. I admire breeder's who put in their ads the truth if a mare has been a pasture pet and doesn't care for people really or if a stallion is harder to handle. Those breeders to me care about having a match for their horse and everyone being happy. Yes, I want to think the horse is beautiful but pictures can't tell the entire story and to me temperament is paramount.

Last consideration (and not really a consideration) is the price. You are going to live with this horse for many, many years hopefully so really the breeder should be able to get a fair price for their efforts and if they've put the time and attention to raising a well socialized, happy horse to me that is worth $$$$.

That's me.

 

[little lady]

As a buyer I like a listed "fair" price. Too many below average horses with big name pedigrees and/or farm that are priced way too high. I like for a seller to answer my questions and not just some of them, if I ask a second time and they are not answered I am done. I like both posed and pasture pictures. The reason being the horse can be set up to hide some conformational flaws and sometimes in a natural pasture picture those can be seen. I want to see sire, dam and offspring pictures-if a mare or stallion. As far as in foal it just depends on the mare and who she is bred to, in some cases it is a turn off and in others it is a plus but for the most part I prefer them not to be bred. As far as show record...there are horses out there with them that IMO shouldn't have them so it just depends on the horse. Trained(as in cart ) is a plus for me.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

OK, let's say I'm looking at the Saleboard:

First thing as a buyer I look at the picture of the horse. If I like him, my eyes stray up to the price. If I can afford that price, I continue to read the ad, if not, I go to the next one. No price, I continue to the next ad. I really don't want to have to ask for a price, in my mind, if I have to ask, I can't afford. Probably not the case many times, but that thought is always there. If you don't have a price, why not? What are you hiding?

Then I look at where the horse is. Local, I read on. Would need shipped, sometimes I just move on, sometimes I keep reading. Depends on how well I like the pic!

I read the description. I'll be honest: bad spelling, grammatical errors, colored fonts, odd fonts, super long ads.... I stop. No excuse for misspelled words with Spellcheck. And odd colors and fonts, well, I was always taught the K I S S rule: Keep In Simple, Stupid. Besides, some colors and fonts are VERY hard to read, especially in printed material, like the World or Journal. Yeah, it LOOKS pretty, but I can't decipher your horse's name! All those scroll letters just start to blend together...plus, what if English is NOT your prospective buyer's first language? Think about that! BE PROFESSIONAL.

In an ad I like to see: name, age, gender, temperment, what s/he's trained to do, if anything. Show record if shown, but that's not a make or break. If a mare, is she bred or has she ever had foals? Stallion with two descended testicles. Bite. Registered with which registry? WCMHR does absolutely nothing for me. At this point we are only buying AMHA/AMHR horses, or AMHA when we can hardship to R. I like full names: I can go onto the pedigree websites and look him up! I also like sire and dam names, too, for the same reason. Color, well, if you know his color for sure (DNA color tested)- awesome! If you put chestnut when the horse is obviously silver bay, that makes me twitch...or blue roan when it's a gray, *shudder*.

Heights: get a true height the day you want to place your ad. Don't "guess". You'll probably be wrong. If you must guess, guess high. Most people would far rather you said the horse was 33" and then measures at 32", than measure at 34"!

Paperwork. I will NEVER buy a horse without genuine registration papers in hand ever again. It cost us hundreds of dollars to get some paperwork straightened out on horses we bought. Unless it's a foal from Joe Super-Duper Breeder that is well known and well respected, that horse better have papers in the current owner's name with a signed transfer with it. If your horse is over three with "applications" I run away as fast as I can. If your horse's papers are expired, I hesitate and will probably look elsewhere.

Pictures. I LOVE lots of pictures. GOOD pictures. A pic of Sally Mare standing in a knee high field of weeds at a head-on angle, standing over her, well, that just doesn't do it. Seeing Studly Stupedous in a nice clipped grass or dirt area, on HIS level, sun at the photographer's back, tidied up, nice clean tack, with full on side shots, well, THAT gets MY attention! He doesn't even need to be clipped, but that is a bonus. A nice pic of his bite is always welcome. Make sure your pix are in focus and not the size of a postage stamp, too, please! CURRENT PICTURES. That lovely foal pic of Sally Mare is nice, but, um, she's two now.

I do give Craigslist ads a bit more leeway. I figure LB is for genuine breeders and hobbyists, they should be more informed and knowledgeable. CL anything goes (and often does!) But again, poorly worded, text-speak, poor pix all do your horse a disservice.

You WANT to sell him, I want to buy him: give him every possible chance you can! Especially since you aren't being charged per word, these ads are free, do the very best you can! Proofread!! Crop pictures, get the best shots you can. Don't fudge, exaggerate, downright lie in your ads. Nothing spreads faster complaints about than bad sellers. Respond quickly to emails. That $$ may be burning a hole in your prospective buyer's pocket. That delay of a few days may kill a sale: they found someone else! Don't put up an ad if you are going away for a few days and won't be able to respond.

Hope that helps!

 

[Carolyn R]

OK, let's say I'm looking at the Saleboard:

First thing as a buyer I look at the picture of the horse. If I like him, my eyes stray up to the price. If I can afford that price, I continue to read the ad, if not, I go to the next one. No price, I continue to the next ad. I really don't want to have to ask for a price, in my mind, if I have to ask, I can't afford. Probably not the case many times, but that thought is always there. If you don't have a price, why not? What are you hiding?

Then I look at where the horse is. Local, I read on. Would need shipped, sometimes I just move on, sometimes I keep reading. Depends on how well I like the pic!

I read the description. I'll be honest: bad spelling, grammatical errors, colored fonts, odd fonts, super long ads.... I stop. No excuse for misspelled words with Spellcheck. And odd colors and fonts, well, I was always taught the K I S S rule: Keep In Simple, Stupid. Besides, some colors and fonts are VERY hard to read, especially in printed material, like the World or Journal. Yeah, it LOOKS pretty, but I can't decipher your horse's name! All those scroll letters just start to blend together...plus, what if English is NOT your prospective buyer's first language? Think about that! BE PROFESSIONAL.

In an ad I like to see: name, age, gender, temperment, what s/he's trained to do, if anything. Show record if shown, but that's not a make or break. If a mare, is she bred or has she ever had foals? Stallion with two descended testicles. Bite. Registered with which registry? WCMHR does absolutely nothing for me. At this point we are only buying AMHA/AMHR horses, or AMHA when we can hardship to R. I like full names: I can go onto the pedigree websites and look him up! I also like sire and dam names, too, for the same reason. Color, well, if you know his color for sure (DNA color tested)- awesome! If you put chestnut when the horse is obviously silver bay, that makes me twitch...or blue roan when it's a gray, *shudder*.

Heights: get a true height the day you want to place your ad. Don't "guess". You'll probably be wrong. If you must guess, guess high. Most people would far rather you said the horse was 33" and then measures at 32", than measure at 34"!

Paperwork. I will NEVER buy a horse without genuine registration papers in hand ever again. It cost us hundreds of dollars to get some paperwork straightened out on horses we bought. Unless it's a foal from Joe Super-Duper Breeder that is well known and well respected, that horse better have papers in the current owner's name with a signed transfer with it. If your horse is over three with "applications" I run away as fast as I can. If your horse's papers are expired, I hesitate and will probably look elsewhere.

Pictures. I LOVE lots of pictures. GOOD pictures. A pic of Sally Mare standing in a knee high field of weeds at a head-on angle, standing over her, well, that just doesn't do it. Seeing Studly Stupedous in a nice clipped grass or dirt area, on HIS level, sun at the photographer's back, tidied up, nice clean tack, with full on side shots, well, THAT gets MY attention! He doesn't even need to be clipped, but that is a bonus. A nice pic of his bite is always welcome. Make sure your pix are in focus and not the size of a postage stamp, too, please! CURRENT PICTURES. That lovely foal pic of Sally Mare is nice, but, um, she's two now.

I do give Craigslist ads a bit more leeway. I figure LB is for genuine breeders and hobbyists, they should be more informed and knowledgeable. CL anything goes (and often does!) But again, poorly worded, text-speak, poor pix all do your horse a disservice.

You WANT to sell him, I want to buy him: give him every possible chance you can! Especially since you aren't being charged per word, these ads are free, do the very best you can! Proofread!! Crop pictures, get the best shots you can. Don't fudge, exaggerate, downright lie in your ads. Nothing spreads faster complaints about than bad sellers. Respond quickly to emails. That $$ may be burning a hole in your prospective buyer's pocket. That delay of a few days may kill a sale: they found someone else! Don't put up an ad if you are going away for a few days and won't be able to respond.

Hope that helps!

I have to say, when I was buying, selling, and breeding, this is pretty much what I would look for. I would not consider an unhandled horse. It didn't bother me if they needed more work, but if they were downright fearful of humans forget it. To me that just meant that you left the foal out to pasture with the mare until weaning time and did not put much effort into handling which is one of the things a responsible owner should do. If you can't handle it, how the heck was it wormed, vaccinated, or trimmed without requiring a small army of helpers to hold it down? I detest sellers that keep every colt intact and use the excuse " well gelding it cuts my perspective market in half" we all know there are way too many intact boys out there that should not be breeding material or advertised as such, but that is more of an overall insight on a breeder, not a specific horse being advertised.

 

[Lizzie]

Field of Dreams and Carolyn have said it very well. Just like to add a couple of things. As a buyer and in any breed and for a stallion, mare or gelding, I want to see close-up pics, with the horse standing four-square on a solid surface and not stretched. In all, I want to see a pedigree and not just the names of the sire and dam. The pedigree should preferably on their website if they have one or with a link. I don't want to have to hunt all over the place to find it. Even in a gelding, the pedigree will - or should, give me some idea of how the horse is bred. If the horses in the pedigree are well known, it might give me an idea of how the stallion/mare or youngster, might produce. If a horse has already produced, it's always nice to see pics of the offspring. I don't want to see ads which go on and on about one famous horse in a pedigree, when it's three or four generations back and none of the horses up-front are even known or can be traced. I see this constantly, when advertisers say (for example) they have a Buckeroo or Rowdy bred horse, when the horses are so far back, it makes no difference.

I absolutely hate to see ads with pictures showing a large teen or adult, riding a Mini. Even worse, when it shows someone standing on their back to supposedly show how well trained the animal is. When seeing ads showing a very thin or emaciated animal, I hate to see a lot of feeble excuses as to why the horse looks that way.

In pictures, I do look at the background. If the horse is shown in the midst of a dump with piles of junk all over the place, it tells me how the horse has probably been kept.

Minis, more than most other breeds, can look very different in their winter coats and summer coats, so I prefer to see the horse pictured in a summer coat, without tons of hair hiding possible conformation faults. That, or even possibly hiding a really good animal.

I like to see a price in an ad. If colour is mentioned, I like to see the seller get it right. Not (for example) advertising an obviously grey horse and listing it as silver.

The KISS idea is ok I suppose, but I think the more facts one places in an ad, the better. It shows the seller knows the horse and the breed. It saves the buyer having to contact the seller and ask all the important questions. I think these days, people want to see important facts. They probably won't contact a seller who says little about an animal for sale.

Lizzie

 

[disneyhorse]

What field-of-dreams said.

 

[disneyhorse]

What field-of-dreams said.

 

[Joanne]

Luckily there are as many different buyers as sellers.

Some want pets, some show horses, some breeders.

Some want a bred mare, and some open mares.

Some want a stallion, colt, or gelding.

Some want a bay, black, chestnut.

Some a pinto, appaloosa, solid.

Some only want a certain pedigree, some look at the horse and judge.

The good news is, there really IS something for everyone!

We just have to match up the "Wanted" with the "Have it !".