BUTE

[suz]

Is Bute okay to give to minis? I think I have read here on the forum that it is NOT a good thing to give to these guys (I'm talking dog bute because of their size) as it can cause stomach problems.

My friend swears that it is THE thing to give to bring down a fever or to prevent a fever after vaccines.

I guess my question is is this a good thing to use re: fevers or do you use Banamine or something completely different?

How about an alcohol bath if needed?

Thanks much :

p.s. This is just FYI info in case I need it in the future

 

[lovable minis]

My mares all had a reaction (high fevers) to there shots this year and I gave bute. I have heard bute AND Banamine are not good to give mini's and that they both can cause ulsers.

I too would like to know more.

 

[hhpminis]

My drug of choice is banamine for a fever. I do also use Bute for some things. I have an older mare that has foundered, if she is a bit sore I give her a small amount of Bute, like a quarter of a pill for control of her lameness.

Both can cause stomach problems and should only be used when necessary. Pain and fevers can cause stress and tummy problems too so it requires a need for common sense. Dont over use them dont under use them.

I believe Bute is harder on the inner organs than Banamine and you have to be more exact in your doseage as it can store up and become toxic in their system. Some forum members have had very bad experiences with Bute.

I am sure their are more opinions on this and it will be interesting to read them.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Bute is far more readily available over here than Banamine and definitely better for fever and inflammation, which is why it is the drug of choice for Laminitis. Make no mistake, it is not the drug that is wrong, it is the dosage just like Moxidectin (Quest). I got a Pharmacist to weigh out the Bute on accurate scales (we use powder, never had pills) and then work out, using the leaflet provided, the dose per kg. I feel fairly OK using it now, although I only do so when instructed to and always question the reasons- my Vet also leaves the amount up to me!! I always give Ranitidine two hors after- if you are forwarned (ie non- emergency) it is better to give the Ranitidine two hours before the Bute.

 

[Charlotte]

Bute & Banamine are both ulcerogenic in ponies and miniature horses, but Bute is much more of a problem. some people have given it in small doses for a very limited time and done fine, but Banamine works about as well for the same symptoms and is less of a problem with minis.

I have personally known of too many minis who died from Bute toxicity to take a chance myself. Even with Banamine I am very careful of the dosage and watch closely for any signs of adverse reactions.

Let's hope you don't ever have a reason to use EITHER

You know, like very healthy horses?

Charlotte

 

[Hosscrazy]

I've always used Banamine and was terrified to try bute after a forum member's horse became very sick last year (?) from bute toxicity (I'm sorry, I forgot her name...)

After lengthy discussions with several vets and equine hosipitals in my area, I decided to use bute on one of my horses. My vet located 100 mg. bute tabs, and I give my horse 175 mg. per day as it is based on the weight of the horse, with not much room for guessing error (did not want to mess with a 1 gram tab). Regarding the ulceration issue, I also give my horse Zantac prior to the bute. All I can say is that this has worked for me.

 

[Vicky Texas]

Please be careful with the bute. We have a mare I purchased who was OVER DOSED on bute. Per the owner she was a yearling and colic. They gave her bute.

The dosage was to much. She ended up at Texas A&M, for a month fighting for her life. She did get ulcers in her stomach which healed. But she also did get ulcers in her mouth. Which caused her permant damage. She has NO UPPER LIP.

She is all smiles. As a result, her upper jaw has moved forward. This is not passed on to any foals and can't pass on. She is normal, and did heal. But has NO upper lip. Just all teeth. She is a beautiful mare.

So as on any med's please make sure you use the correct dosage. Please be careful.

Vicky

 

[Becky]

I think Bute has it's place and is necessary in some instances. But the problem lies with the dosage and length of treatment. Many full size horse vets tend to overdose and over prescribe Bute to minis and ponies and that can have disasterous results! Very good info from the others on here and if I had my choice I would go with Banamine when a NSAID is needed!

 

[suz]

thanks for everyone's replies

I think the idea of giving Zantac or Ranitidine beforehand is an excellent idea if Bute is going to be used.

Anybody else want to share their opinions, pro or con, about Bute??

 

[rabbitsfizz]

When the Lucky Moons Sparkle nearly dies it was injected Bute I actually caused my Vet to drop the syringe by screeching at him- he's never forgotten that!!

Zantac is Ranitidine!!!

 

[qtrrae]

Last year one of the foals that I sold to a young lady injured one of his back legs. Her vet prescribed butte to be given twice a day. She ended up losing the colt from an overdose of butte. She was heartbroken and a beautiful weanling colt died as a result. The vets in our area tend to prescribe way too much for the size of the horse. This is one of the reason why I wonder how a person can raise minis without the expertise of the Forum members.

I have copied this from Dr. Pam and I'm sure she won't mind me sharing it.

Everytime I sell a mini, I include this article on butte.

Dr. Pam Posted: Feb 15 2004, 09:29 AM

Habit Forming

Group: Members

Posts: 284

Member No.: 629

Joined: 22-August 03

Just had several questions on this again, and it's worth reminding people periodically, so here's part of my reply:

Bute is incredibly toxic to minis, and for some reason a lot of vets out there don't realize this. Not only is there a very narrow safety margin, i.e. you have to be very accurate at dosing them, but there are minis who will have problems even at the correct dose. It should be given at 1mg per pound body weight, which means most minis will get 150 mg to 250 mg--1/4 tablet or less. A lot of vets seem to think the average mini weighs 500 pounds and have owners give 1/2 tablet twice daily. ARGGGG!!!

Bute toxicity can cause severe gastric and intestinal ulceration, to the point of perforation and death (in as little as 5-7 days), kidney and liver damage, bone marrow suppression, and lowered blood protein levels.

That said, I have used bute on selected minis for laminities, but at a low dose and for short periods of time. For almost everything else I use Banamine (which can also cause problems if dosed too high or too long, but has a wider safety margin)

From Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook:

QUOTE

Adverse effects: Horses: oral and GI erosions and ulcers, hypoalbuminemia, diarrhea, anorexia, and renal (KIDNEY) effects.

QUOTE

Cautious use in both foals and ponies is recommended because of increased incidences of hypoproteinemia (LOW BLOOD PROTEIN LEVELS)and GI ulceration. Foals with a heavy parasite burden or that are undernourished may be more susceptible to development of adverse effects.

Phenylbutazone may cause decreased renal blood flow and sodium and water retention, and should be used cautiously in animals with preexisting renal disease or CHF (CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE).

 

[wcr]

I use Banamine and only for short treatments. All medications have adverse side effects and need to be given in proper dosage. That said, if you are treating minis you need to be proactive with your vet. Not every vet is used to treating minis and you need to speak up if you are not comfortable with the treatment given. I have a wonderful working relationship with the vets I use and they are very good. I have a long history in medicine and we have exchanged information on treatment in human vs. veterinary and come up with some interesting ways to treat my horses. They are also comfortable with giving me meds for treatment at home. It helps that when I say I have an emergency they are right there as they know I know the difference.

Alcohol baths to lower temps is old school thinking and really isn't used anymore.

 

[shminifancier]

Bute can be used in small doses and be very accurate about how much the mini weighs and IMO that is where people go wrong is they est. the wt. instead of putting the mini on a scale for a TRUE weight~!. And then use Bute accorinly..I think people that say use those tapes and "guess" at the minis weight is where they run into trouble with using Bute on mini.. I used Bute a few times and my small Shetland pony when he was Down from pain in the front feet due to Founder~! And given Bute Paste just a few times and in small amounts a give Josh relieve from pain was a good thing and the way Bute should be used..In small amounts and at correct weight and for a Short period of time. Then IMO it can used safe when given to minis and small ponies..