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Buckskin or Grulla??

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Candice

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Because his body is white he lacks a dorsal stripe and any leg barring, however his head just doesn't appear buckskin to me. In the first photo his coat is growing back. I was shocked the first time I clipped him as he was such a dark chocolate color. This time around (second picture) I was amazed at how much flecking (or roaning) there is.

What do you think? http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l350/Fo...er/100_5422.jpg

This is clipped a couple of days ago:http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l350/Forthofer/100_5563.jpg
 

Jill

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Here are your pictures:





Is either parent dun? He couldn't be grullo without a dun parent.

To my eyes, the coloring on his head looks like sabino roaning.

With how his pinto color falls, I don't think you can tell if he's got dun factor with your eyes...

We have a mare here who is perlino pinto. Even without the pinto, it would be hard to "see" dun factor on a perlino, but her color is only on her head and off center on her hip, so the white covers all that would show dun. BUT she gave me a buckskin filly with dun factor, sired by a stallion who is not dun. So, I got a big hint that way
 

Candice

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Hi Jill,

His Dam is a buckskin pinto. Huffman's Lite My Fire out of Little Kings Santana Supreme. His sire is a red and white paint Stiehls Sensational Aladdin. I find his color intriguing.
 

maestoso

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Jill is right, he can't be grullo without a dub parent. The pictures a hard to tell, but is there a faint dorsal stripe there? That would indicate dun factor, and buckskins, true buckskins, don't have dorsal stripes.
 

Jill

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Matt --

Actually, a horse can be both buckskin and have dun factor. Bay + Cream + Dun factor


Some people may not want to call that buckskin but it's still a genetic buckskin who also carries dun factor


I do have a mare who is a silver buckskin with dun factor, and my 2008 filly out of a double dilute who is buckskin with dun factor


Because the dun will visibly lighten the color on a bay dun, many mistakenly think a bay dun is buckskin, but buckskin horses can have dun factor, and still be buckskin...

Jill
 
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maestoso

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Those are called dunskins.

So perhaps she has a..... grullskin? Some of these color names get ridiculous
 
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rabbitsfizz

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Looks like a Buckskin + Sooty + Pangaré to me.

Pretty foal!!


And Jill is correct, "dunskin" is certainly a term we use but not a recognised one, so it would be a Buckskin -Dun.
 

maestoso

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I guess I don't get your point.....? Smokey Black is also not a recognized color, along with several others, but we still use them....
 

Jill

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Smokey black is genetically a color. It's a mess trying to sort out "real" colors and match them up to what the registries will use. Add in all the misidentified colors and phew
 

Field-of-Dreams

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He isn't grullo- grullo is a black based horse with dun factor, that lil guy is definitely got brown shading on his muzzle.

Here's our grullo filly as a yearling:

Here she is as a three year old:

Your guy does looks buckskin to me- no matter what he is ADORABLE!!

Lucy

edited to add: she's got striping, barring and a wide line back down her spine. Sire is bloodtested dun....
 
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HGFarm

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I am going to lean more towards a smutty buckskin type color too - the roaning just makes it more interesting. It is an interesting color and dang, with all that white, you can't see any other characteristics that may or may not be there on a 'colored' one.

I agree with Matt, a TRUE buckskin does not have a dorsal stripe and the 'old guys' here would think you were nuts if you called a dun a buckskin, etc... Dunskin is a made up term by someone in recent years.. I never heard it used in the big horse industry at all- not until recent years with the minis.

I am sure a buckskin can carry dun genes, but color wise- it is one or the other. If it is 'yellowish' and has a stripe and leg markings- we called it a yellow dun.
 

mayflowerfarm

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I would say smutty buckskin. Grullos are usually a very rich grey with black points. Your horse has too much brown in his face.

Seperate question - why have all these "names" for colors been developed? LOL Talk about making it more difficult than it needs to be in some instances! LOL I use to show on the IBHA circuit (stopped 10 years ago, so not that long ago) and you had buckskins, you had duns, you had grullas, you had buckskins with dun factor (yes it is separate and distinct) but no dunskins and dunalinos and the rest of these strange names. Someone has way too much time on their hands! LOL
 

Candice

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We will have him tested but the brown that you are all seeing (not sure if it makes a difference) are the "missed spots" when we clipped him. His muzzle is black. He's just a bit of a fussbudget about having his head clipped, but each time we work on him we make progress but we did miss quite a bit around the eyes and ears.

I just found his coloring very unique and thought I'd see what you guys thought.

Jane, I do have a question. I am not familiar with the term "pangare'" what is that?

Jill, I forget earlier, Thankyou for putting my photos up for me. I'm still not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Jessi and Luci, You have BEAUTIFUL horses. Thankyou for sharing.
 

ohmt

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He looks like a smutty buckskin pinto with sabino roaning to me. I've had numerous foals from my golden buckskin stallion that were born very creamy colored like your boy and then when I clipped them they were almost black. One that I sold is very very dark but gets the buckskin colored hairs throughout his body and then it's heavy around his muzzle, eyes, and flanks. He's not a smokey black-he's a smutty buckskin...we had him tested and he has 2 black genes, 1 agouti, and 1 cream.

I am sure a buckskin can carry dun genes, but color wise- it is one or the other.
Why does it have to be one or the other colorwise? If I had a buckskin with the dun gene and someone asked me what color my horse was I'd say it was a dunskin or buckskin with the dun gene. Calling it just buckskin or dun is misleading and just confusing for newcomers. I think new terms are made up (like dunskin) because more people are understanding genetics better. AND because it's more fun to say than buckskin with the dun gene


If it is 'yellowish' and has a stripe and leg markings- we called it a yellow dun.
I have a 'yellowish' mare that is a light red dun with the silver gene. I wouldn't call her a yellow dun. That's also misleading. I always say she's a silver red dun that way people know. Especially since I've been trying to sell her.
 

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