Breeding previous foundered mares, would you?

[chandab]

I'm just curious, would you breed a previously foundered mare? Would it depend on the reason for foundering or other factors?

I've read in several books: "at least you can still breed a foundered mare; unlike a gelding, so they still have a use."

:

:

I have a mini mare that foundered, pretty sure I know the reason, now (severe founder with rotation). The vet recommended not ever breeding her; the additional weight of pregnancy wouldn't be good for her, and could send her into another laminitic attack (basically his opinion of any mare that foundered). [Additionally, she doesn't have conformation that we really want to perpetuate, although, I would love reproduce her personality, she's something else.

: ] This mare is now sound enough to go into light training for driving and she'll look so cute doing it. [she has a forever home, as I don't want to ever see her bred, and hopefully, through careful diet and care, we can prevent it from ever happening again.]

So, would you or wouldn't you? And, why?

Please try to keep this civil, I know it's a controversial subject, but I would really like to know what others think. [i've been thinking about this for awhile.]

 

[Jill]

I have a mare who foundered or near foundered last winter, and my vet thought in her case, it will be fine to breed her. I plan to breed her to DunIT in the spring.

 

[sfmini]

I have a mare who has had two foals since foundering with no problems. We don't know the cause of her founder but it wasn't related to foaling. She is happy, sound, and healthy and loves her babies.

 

[Marty]

It's been said that once a horse founders, they are prone to founder again and again. I don't know of any studies to support that claim however as I haven't had that experience personally with a re-founder.

If your mare has foundered so severely like that and rotated I would most definately agree with your vet 100% on not to risk a pregnancy. I would go further to say that a severly foundered mare would not be my candiate for driving also at all. I know you want her to look as cute as she can behind a cart (and heaven knows I'm all about "cute horses" )and also pass on her wonderful little disposition, which I feel is very important in my breeding program. However, if she were mine, I would be dreadfully afraid of causing her to go backwards in her soundness as that founder stuff is nasty and risky business. I'd retire her as the cutest yard ornament with the best personality around and not push her to do anything.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Personally i would not breed a foundered mare or one who had foundered.

I have honestly no medical research to back up my stance the only thing I can say is that there is enough mares out there and I dont need a foal badly enough to risk the mare foundering again or being painful due to the extra weight

JMO not saying everyone should agree with it.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Me neither. Had enough bad experiences watching people insist on breeding them, resulting in them foundering again and several being put down. Not something I'd like to ever see again. So my input is no, don't breed a foundered (rotated) mare.

 

[Jean_B]

I have had 2 mares that foundered....one because she got into some moldy hay (a few years ago in winter--was feeding in the dark before I went to work and didn't know it was moldy until I got home). She was in pretty rough shape for a little while but managed to carry the foal she was pregnant with....and has had another since then. And is perfectly healthy. She never sluffed her hoof wall. I kept her out in the snow 24/7 to keep her feet cool, fed her only grass hay, and no grain.

Had another one that got into too much lush grass in early spring. I caught it almost immediately. She has recovered completely.

The key is catching it early and then maintenance. Neither one is allowed out on spring grass for more than 10 minutes a day. They don't get full turn-out on grass until it is later in the season when the grass is pretty much dead (autumn).

Both are productive broodmares and now have perfectly healthy hooves and their foals have healthy hooves. Neither have re-foundered. In neither case was this due to anything genetic. In the first case it was due to stupidity on my part for not checking each flake of hay before tossing it in the feeder (I added extra lights in the barn after that fiasco) and for allowing the other mare to be out on new spring grass for too long.

 

[Lauralee]

KNOCK ON WOOD I have never had a foundered horse in 25 plus years of equine ownership. However if I did have a foundered mare, I *might* consider breeding her only with a vet's supervision of her diet. It would be tough not breeding her, as she would only be a lawn ornament otherwise. So I'd probably give it a shot and make special arrangements for her needs.

 

[backwoodsnanny]

I am often confused by this forum as it seems you use the term founder and laminitis interchangably when my mare had laminitis that is what it was called by our vet she had NO rotation and therefore she did NOT founder my vets terms not mine. In her case the laminitis was brought on by a too close trim and a non existant thyroid level. We doctored her for over a year and she is doing fine now hoof wall did not deteriorate and her feet are back to normal. She is at this time I hope bred for next year. That said if she had foundered ie: had rotation no matter how slight no I would not take a chance of the added weight of pregnancy.

 

[Jean_B]

OK -- I stand corrected -- I had 2 mares that laminitis-ed. But my farrier and vet still referred to it as founder, though neither had any rotation. We all knew what we meant, though.

 

[Buckskin gal]

If the mare had severe founder with rotation, I doubt very much if I would breed her but if a mild case of laminitis, I might consider it. Sorry I didn't answer the question as I should have to start with.

: Mary

I'm just curious, would you breed a previously foundered mare? Would it depend on the reason for foundering or other factors?

I've read in several books: "at least you can still breed a foundered mare; unlike a gelding, so they still have a use."

:

:

I have a mini mare that foundered, pretty sure I know the reason, now (severe founder with rotation). The vet recommended not ever breeding her; the additional weight of pregnancy wouldn't be good for her, and could send her into another laminitic attack (basically his opinion of any mare that foundered). [Additionally, she doesn't have conformation that we really want to perpetuate, although, I would love reproduce her personality, she's something else.

: ] This mare is now sound enough to go into light training for driving and she'll look so cute doing it. [she has a forever home, as I don't want to ever see her bred, and hopefully, through careful diet and care, we can prevent it from ever happening again.]

So, would you or wouldn't you? And, why?

Please try to keep this civil, I know it's a controversial subject, but I would really like to know what others think. [i've been thinking about this for awhile.]

 

[wildoak]

I think it depends on the mare and the severity of her condition. I have an older mare who has grass foundered a couple of times. She's been bred twice since then with absolutely no problems. She has done so much better since we moved and she gets more exercise, farrier commented last week on how good her feet look now. I do watch her closely when the grass comes in, but we are able to close off the hay field to the mares - and do when necessary. I've only had one other mare founder - or develop laminitis. I was out of town the first time, and she went a day or so without anyone catching it (gee, this mare's just been standing around...

: ). She was pretty painful but made a nice recovery after a week in support boots and a few days of bute. She has had a couple of spells since, and because of her weight and other issues I would probably not breed her. She has happily been sold as a pet, with cautions about putting her on grass.

Jan

 

[Marty]

Oh my God Jean you have cracked me up again

OK -- I stand corrected -- I had 2 mares that laminitis-ed.

I love that term and I'm going to have to start using it!

Since in your case have dealt with severe rotation, there is a big difference in what Jean is saying and what you and your vet are saying so since your vet knows this mare, I'd be listening to him.

:

 

[chandab]

I am often confused by this forum as it seems you use the term founder and laminitis interchangably when my mare had laminitis that is what it was called by our vet she had NO rotation and therefore she did NOT founder my vets terms not mine. In her case the laminitis was brought on by a too close trim and a non existant thyroid level. We doctored her for over a year and she is doing fine now hoof wall did not deteriorate and her feet are back to normal. She is at this time I hope bred for next year. That said if she had foundered ie: had rotation no matter how slight no I would not take a chance of the added weight of pregnancy.

Laminitis and founder are basically the same thing; one being the medical term, the other layman's term. Although, it is generally accepted that founder includes rotation, and laminitis is acute inflammation of the hoof laminae. I'm always confusing the terms acute and chronic, but I want to say that my vet called my mare's case chronic laminitis because she did have rotation (with proper diet, hoof care and convalessing; you can reduce the degree of rotation - I don't have x-rays to prove it, but I'm pretty sure that we've reduced my mare's rotation with proper hoof care and diet, although her hooves do still have aways to go to look normal, she gets around just fine and even kicks up her heels with the fillies).

 

[dannigirl]

I'm just curious, would you breed a previously foundered mare? Would it depend on the reason for foundering or other factors?

I've read in several books: "at least you can still breed a foundered mare; unlike a gelding, so they still have a use."

:

:

I have a mini mare that foundered, pretty sure I know the reason, now (severe founder with rotation). The vet recommended not ever breeding her; the additional weight of pregnancy wouldn't be good for her, and could send her into another laminitic attack (basically his opinion of any mare that foundered). [Additionally, she doesn't have conformation that we really want to perpetuate, although, I would love reproduce her personality, she's something else.

: ] This mare is now sound enough to go into light training for driving and she'll look so cute doing it. [she has a forever home, as I don't want to ever see her bred, and hopefully, through careful diet and care, we can prevent it from ever happening again.]

So, would you or wouldn't you? And, why?

Please try to keep this civil, I know it's a controversial subject, but I would really like to know what others think. [i've been thinking about this for awhile.]

I think you answered your own question. You stated that the vet told you it was not a good idea and then you stated that she had no physical qualities you wanted to perpetuate encept her personallity. Since some of the personallity will come from the stallion and there are no gaurantees the foal will have her personality, I would not breed her for that reason alone. As for driving her, I would do that, but would probably never let anyone else drive her without me watching. That way I would always see if she was 'off' in any way and stop immediately. If she enjoys driving, she may get strong enough to do so and have a happy time.

 

[Jill]

OK -- I stand corrected -- I had 2 mares that laminitis-ed. But my farrier and vet still referred to it as founder, though neither had any rotation. We all knew what we meant, though.

This is actually the case for my girl as well. Thankfully!

 

[Becky]

One of my best (favorite!) mares had a laminitis attack from eating bermuda grass round bales last winter. With some diet changes (no bermuda grass!) she does well most of the time. She foaled in August with no complications. She has had a bout of laminitis again within the past few weeks, but I've made some more radical changes in her diet and she is doing better. In fact, she was running and bucking yesterday. Will I breed her again? Absolutely!

 

[chandab]

Several of you need to go back and re-read the original post. I never asked if I should breed my mare, I already stated that she will never be bred (and has a permanent home to ensure she is never bred).

I asked if you would breed a mare that had laminitis/founder. So, would you breed a mare that had previously foundered (or had a laminitic attack)? What conditions would determine whether you would or wouldn't?

 

[Boinky]

does anyone know if any studies have been done on laminitis and if it's a inherited trait? I've often wondered. I mean be it actual laminitis or some sort of deficiency in the metabolism that causes it.... Ever noticed many many horses can go their whole life in "high risk" situations and never have a problem..yet others are exposed to lower portions of those risks and founder and many times repeatedly? i'm wondering if other studies have been done to find out if the laminitis is a metabolic issue ect.

A friend and I were having a discussion the other night about just this topic and how there are a certain line of Welsh ponies that are VERY prone to laminitis/founder. To me that suggests that that line of welsh ponies have some sort of inherited problem that causes them to be more prone to it.

anyone read anything on this?

 

[chandab]

does anyone know if any studies have been done on laminitis and if it's a inherited trait? I've often wondered. I mean be it actual laminitis or some sort of deficiency in the metabolism that causes it.... Ever noticed many many horses can go their whole life in "high risk" situations and never have a problem..yet others are exposed to lower portions of those risks and founder and many times repeatedly? i'm wondering if other studies have been done to find out if the laminitis is a metabolic issue ect.

A friend and I were having a discussion the other night about just this topic and how there are a certain line of Welsh ponies that are VERY prone to laminitis/founder. To me that suggests that that line of welsh ponies have some sort of inherited problem that causes them to be more prone to it.

anyone read anything on this?

I don't know if it's inherited, but...

I'm sure there are other reasons; but metabolic issues can increase a horse's risk of founder/laminitis. Two such metabolic issues are IR (insulin resistance, similar to Type II diabetes in humans) and Cushings disease.