Breeding a mare to an unproven stud?

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Lil Eowyn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
791
Reaction score
78
Location
Minnesota
Hello,

I'm breeding my mini mare for the first time (Her first and my first experience). The stud I have picked out is a brown and white paint (just like my mare). The thing is; he's never bred a mare before and the lady is charging $150 for the fee. The stud is registered but I still need to know more info on him so I will update these details later....For now, how much would you pay to breed your mare to an unproven stallion?

Thank you!
 
Regardless of being proven or not, much is based on conformation, body type, pedigree.....if he is all you are looking for, $150 is more than fair. There were many on here when I was breeding who, for lack of better words, would say it wasn't even worth their unzipping their (the studs) fly for under $350.

Think of what you would want to value a foal at if you should sell it. It would be very hard to market a foal for $750-$1000 if you are only paying $75-100 for the stud fee. Just make sure you have an agreement that either honors a live foal or that he is gauranteed to settle your mare, if he does not settle her (confirmed by vet check or blood test) then you are refunded the money. I am sure you know this, but has at least one horse been tested negative for LWO since they are both pintos?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Have you checked for the lethal white gene?

If the stallion is a good match for your mare, that doesn't seem an unreasonable fee. Do you have a written guarantee for a rebreeding if she does not take?
 
Marsha, you were thinking the same as me, I was editing my post as you typed, LOL
 
I agree with the above advice. As long as you are guaranteed your money back if he turns out to be a dud stud the price seems fair. He has to breed somebody to prove himself and who knows, maybe he'll produce nice foals.
 
Okay thanks! Yes I heard of refunding or re-breeding. Is there certain papers or something I can print off or does the studs owner need those?
 
My question is.... why? Why do you want to breed your mare?

So much can go wrong. Complications could arise, you could petentially have a huge vet bill, a dead mare, a dead foal, and any number of other complications. In this day and age, with horse prices the way they are, it is much cheaper to just go out and buy what you want instead of taking the chance on breeding.

IMHO, breeding should be left to the professionals. It should be left wor the champion horses who represent the breed. Those are the horses that should be breeding. Not unproven, mediocre horses. I see so many abused, starved, unwanted horses..... especially Mini's. I just don't understand why people want to keep breeding for the fun of it, b/c I love Nilly and want a baby out of her, b/c the stud fee is cheap, etc, etc, etc.

I'm sorry, but I feel very strongly about this whole breeding nonsense. I have a bred mare. She was bred when I got her. And to tell you the truth, I wish she wasn't b/c I know what can potentially happen. I bred/raised ONE baby (big horse) and I will never do it again. I ended up $3,000 in debt just to keep the foal alive. Never again. I didn't even LLIKE the resulting foal much. It would have been MUCH cheaper to just go buy what I wanted... but... hindsight...
 
Hello,

I'm breeding my mini mare for the first time (Her first and my first experience). The stud I have picked out is a brown and white paint (just like my mare). The thing is; he's never bred a mare before and the lady is charging $150 for the fee. The stud is registered but I still need to know more info on him so I will update these details later....For now, how much would you pay to breed your mare to an unproven stallion?

Thank you!
While I havent bred to an outside stallion yet I would still expect to pay quite a bit more than that for a breeding to a quality stallion proven or not. I would also not expect to get any kind of guarantee at that price. Most stallions I have looked at for breeding generally start at $500 or higher. Most unproven stallions wont come with a guarantee until they have at least settled a few mares to prove they can breed. This is all just my opinion of course
 
Agree with Maple Hollow. If I were to offer a breeding to an unproven stallion, for $150 you would take your chances. Your mare gets covered, if she doesn't catch you can have a return breeding. No LFG. No refund. In actual fact I probably wouldn't offer the breeding for such a low amount--I simply wouldn't bother because it isn't worth it to me to deal with someone else's horse for such a small amount.

If I were breeding my mare to someone else's stallion, at that price I would not expect any guarantee or refund.

If it is a stallion you really like, if he has good breeding and excellent conformation, then this could be a very good deal--assuming you were planning to breed your mare anyway. If you were not thinking of breeding until you got offered this deal--then you may want to think it over carefully before going for it.
 
Not sure if you have asked the right questions. He's brown and white, just like your mare. Not a very good reason to be breeding to him, in my estimation. NEVER breed to any stallion unless he is of the conformation and disposition you want in a resulting foal. Never breed unless you are prepared for all of the financial (which can be VERY VERY substantial) responsibilities, especially if there are problems. Are you prepared for the responsibilities of foaling out your mare safely? The emotional roller coaster if something goes wrong? Just because a mare has a uterus does not mean she MUST carry a foal. You might be money (and heartaches) ahead to buy a foal that has been safely delivered and is healthy and well started.

That being said, most stallion owners do not stand their studs to outside mares, unproven or not. My philosophy: Why let someone have a foal by my stallion for only 1/3 or half of what it would cost to buy a baby from me?

If you are determined to breed your mare, make sure the stallion's conformation is something you desire with the POSSIBILITY of producing a foal that will be valued - because you never know where your path will take you in a few years, especially at your age, and you want to make sure the foal has a good chance in life. Make sure your paperwork is in order. Make sure a stud report is filed with the registry (without it you CANNOT register the foal). Make sure you have a stallion service certificate. And if your mare does have a foal, make sure you register it as unregistered foals have a much higher risk of going to unsuitable homes. PM me if you want more info on these documents.
 
The stud fee in this case is likely to be the LEAST of your expenses in breeding, so if you are picking a stallion based on the stud fee, you might want to re-think. It is a bit like getting any horse - it costs just as much (sometimes more if there are health issues) to keep a cheap horse as it does an expensive one. I once bred to an unproven stallion with a fantastic show record, bloodlines I adored, etc (for a LOT more than $150) and the mare never settled. She was also there all summer so there were mare care expenses. That was 7-8 years ago and I think the stud may have sired ONE or maybe 2 foals by now. (But he has won an AMHA World Champion or Reserve each year). And don't get me started on all the things that can go wrong and how much you could end up spending on that pregnancy. I figure our foals have cost at least $5,000 each to get on the ground when you factor in all the ones that never made it, the vet fees, hospital fees, ultrasounds, cameras, foaling supplies, sleepless nights, and worry about losing the mare. If you want a foal I would strongly suggest you buy a live, healthy weanling in the size, color, gender, temperament, bloodlines, etc. that is just what you want. MUCH easier and cheaper.
 
I second the suggestion to buy.

I was looking into breeding one of my mares and how much was the stud fee? 1000+ with mare care and a LFG. However, I was going with a conformationally correct stallion with a really nice show history.

I ended up buying a 2013 gelding that was exactly what I wanted for a fraction of the price.

However, if you do breed PLEASE find a stallion that compliments your made and that is registered. Also, get your mere either ultrasounded, or get blood work done to see if she is in fact pregnant. I cannot stand seeing threads on here asking if a mare is pregnant. It does NOT cost that much to get a vet out and do blood work or ultrasound. I honestly suggest blood work to get a guarantee.

If you do breed, please do so responsibly. I cannot stand people who cut corners. Drives me up the wall and why I limit my forum use is spring.
 
Another thought, be sure the owner of the stallion files the stallion report and keeps up with all the paperwork, if you decide to go that route. So frustrating when paperwork is not done properly for foals!
 
One thing I didn't see mentioned is how you are going to be breeding your mare - pasture breeding, hand breeding, etc. How old is this stud? If he's immature and hasn't bred mares there's a chance your mare could get hurt if this lady doesn't know what she's doing. If it were me, I'd pass and find a proven stud with someone who actually has experience offering stud service (if this lady doesn't). You are running a risk to your mare to put her in with an unproven stud who might be very anxious to meet the ladies so to speak. And if she hand breeds, hopefully she knows what she's doing and can keep her boy under control.

Also who else is this boy breeding? Does she make sure she cleans him thoroughly so to speak after each episode? Does she require your mare to be cultured?

There's so much to think about for the health of your mare and you want to make sure this person cares about the health and safety of both her stud and your mare.

Just some more to think about. Best of luck to you with your decision.
 
I'll give you a bit of perspective from the stallion owners side. First, to raise, train and campaign any show horse takes a lot of time and money. I have thousands of dollars invested into each of my stallions with show, photography, advertising, basic care, etc. My intent is to breed for foals that can compete at the highest level. If they end up in show homes, great. If they end up as well loved pets, that is great too. I have long given up on recouping my total investment. This is not a business for me -- more of a professional hobby. Some people feel that offering a stallion at stud is "easy" money. It is anything but. A stud fee reflects the value of the stallion. Don't bargain shop. Find the best stallion that compliments your mare and has something to offer the breed. Just because it has the correct body parts, doesn't mean it should reproduce.

Standing stallions is a huge time commitment and well as an exercise in frustration. I will no longer offer my stallions to outside mares. There are so many factors outside of the control of a stallion owner, yet the stallion receives all of the blame if the mare doesn't settle, or the resulting foal is not what the mare owner expected. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. That mare must hold up her end of the bargain as well. Unfortunately, many mare owners refuse to see the shortcomings in their own animal and expect the stallion to fix everything. Additionally, I have had mare owners put off when I told them their horse did not meet my standards for breeding. We are not talking about creating widgets, but live animals with a 25+ year lifespan. If I do not feel that the cross has the potential to improve on the parents, I won't do it -- plain and simple. Again, it is not about the money. It never should be.

Another consideration is risk. Handling outside horses for breeding is inherent in risk, both physically for the stallion and financially for the farm owner. If you are to send a mare to be bred, you must factor in who is liable in the case of illness or injury to your mare. Is the stallion owner insured? Who covers the vet bills for any accidental or negligence injury? You need a contract that spells everything out implicitly for both parties.

I strictly hand breed, as I want to know exactly when my foals are due. This method takes time and diligence, as well as skilled mare and stallion handling when there is nobody around to assist. I don't allow my mares to kick at the stallions, nor the stallions to be rough with the mares. Their safety, as well as mine, depends on it. I know the cycles of each of my mares very well and keep detailed records as that will help with future matings. My mares have settled on one cover, one cycle for the past 7 years. Before sending a mare out for breeding, know her pattern. It will save you a lot of time and money to know when she is receptive for breeding, instead of dropping her off at mare summer camp and hoping for the best.

I have had my fill of overly aggressive outside mares and equally over aggressive mare owners who don't understand that settling mares isn't automatic. The ONLY mare that has not been settled by one of my stallions was an outside mare. To this day, that owner continues to toss jabs at my stallion because of it. It just isn't worth the time, effort or aggravation to deal with people like that. I know I am not alone in this sentiment. Finding outside stallions to breed to is difficult because of it.

There are many factors to consider when breeding. Be sure you have thought all of them through first. If you just want a baby to raise, my advice is to go buy one. If you want a copy of your favorite mare, consider that you are putting her life at risk to do so. Be informed, educated and prepared for all potential outcomes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lil Eowyn, I can see why you want your own foals and if your heart is set on having your own foal and learning all you can about breeding and raising minis while you are still a youth member, I think that's great. I think most of us who do raise horses are just thinking that this might not be the right stud for your mare for many, many reasons but to me most important is the welfare of your mare with an unproven stud. I wouldn't want your first breeding experience to be a heartbreaking one.

I'm sure there must be some breeders in your area who have wonderful, proven stallions who would be more than happy to help one of our young members and maybe they will PM you.
 
Hi Lil Eowyn.. .I've read your post and the replies with interest because in a way, your dreams speak to our dreams even when some of us are much older than you. As an adult, I read the posts with appreciation because there is a world of knowledge and experience being shared with you, and by extension, with the rest of us. The emphasis on the importance of proper paperwork is an excellent reminder for anyone buying, selling, or breeding! The advice given based on real life experiences is what makes this forum such a marvelous tool!

As a long time devoted horse lover I have thought a time or two about breeding one of my favorite mares, but I do believe that the expense needed to breed and promote successfully is more than my income can handle. Plus, any animal or human can have complications during the birthing process and I would hate to lose either mare. As a grandmother (age hint here
default_rolleyes.gif
) ... would it be possible to make this Spring a 'breeding exploration time' and visit with those who are successful at breeding, promoting, and showing (not just minis, but other breeds as well)? I bet you would find many that would love to show you their horses and share their wisdom. Plus, personally, I can't imagine too many things more fun than the opportunity to ooh and aah over all of the beautiful animals that are out there. Not sure what your 'travel' options are, but if you are able to line up a few farms, the hands on and face to face experience would be priceless.

At the end of the day, everyone wishes you, your future, and your little horses only the best! As Roy Rogers used to say "Happy Trails to You!"
 
Sorry I haven't been on for a while. I have decided to go with this stud--I talked to the owner again and she said she'd clean my mare, braid/wrap her tail etc. and do in hand breeding. She has bred her own mares with this stud but not any outside mares. (Before I didn't know that, I thought this stud had never bred before at all).

I didn't want to start a conflict or anything about why I'm breeding her or I should buy a foal if I want one, etc. I grew up on a farm, my Dad grew up on a cattle farm and we have experience with calving and such. I am a youth member but please don't think I'm immature. I raise and train/buy/sell horses on my own but this will be my first foal and I do have my reasons and I know you all do too. Thank you for understanding and for answering my questions.

Have a good day!
 
Best of luck Amy and when foaling time comes, I hope you'll join us over in the "Nutty Nursery" on the MareStare board. We have a lot of fun on that board and the "aunties" are very experienced and offer lots of great advice.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top