Blazing Star Ranch: Trixie's filly, more problems

[weerunner]

I have always used the 6 times dilution rate and had perfect results from that. pH of 6.8 or lower and foaling is real close. 7.2 means you're getting closer but most mares get lower than that before they foal. Of course there will always be sneaky ones that foal without the total pH change.

 

[Eagle]

Crayonbox has a great website:

http://www.crayonboxminiatures.com/Foalingsigns.html

This is my mare an hour before foaling

 

[blazingstarranch]

I have some extremely sad news to report. Vickie went into labor this morning around 4 am. She wasn't making progress and it appeared she had a malpresentation so we called out the vet. The foal was already dead, and completely transverse, with his back to the vaginal opening. To make matters worse, he was gigantic. The vet had to very carefully perform a dissection to save Vickie. She is not out of the woods yet but has improved some so we're hopeful. This colt was 32 lbs, and would have stood at least 22 1/2 inches tall.

We are racking are brains, trying to figure out what's going on. Is it because she was a maiden? Could it be the stallion, even though he's only 32 inches and she is 33 inches? What are we doing wrong? What can we do to prevent any more tragedies this year? These mini's are all part of a program we're working on to serve the community with therapy and lessons. They are very important to us, and we don't want any more tragedies.

So very sad right now, questioning everything. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[chandab]

So sorry for your loss.

You likely didn't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, this is the ugly side of raising minis.

 

[Danielleee]

So sorry for your loss

I hope your mare continues to do well.

 

[Eagle]

I am so very sorry for your sad loss. I am sending prayers that Vicki recovers soon.

When breeding any animal there is always a risk but with minis it seems even higher, I too learnt that the hard way

hugs

 

[crisco41]

I am so sorry. I hope your beautiful girl has a full recovery. As a newbie..with several mares in foal it is stuff like this that fills the pit of my stomach with fear. best wishes on your others, lori

 

[lexischase]

So very very sorry for your loss. I will be praying for both you and Vickie. <3

 

[countrymini]

So sorry to hear about Vickie and her little boy. Hope she continues to heal and recover quickly

 

[MountainWoman]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[AnnaC]

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your foal - sometimes these things happen inspite of any/all precautions you may take, it doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong. Do you know much about Vickie's breeding - or that of the stallion? Sometimes there is a 'larger' mini in the background which MIGHT mean that a foal being born several generations later could throw back to the larger size.

For others who may be worrying about foaling a maiden mare, please relax, it is quite unusual for a maiden to foal with a really big baby - yes, they will probably require assistance as things can be quite a tight fit for a first foaling mare, but to actually have a foal that is too big really doesn't happen that often. Poor Vickie's baby had already died, plus it was mal-presented. Had everything been normal for her, she may well have been able to produce her little one with the help of those caring for her.

I'm sure your other girls will foal just fine - hope little Vickie feels better very soon, bless her.

 

[blazingstarranch]

Thank you so much for all your words of kindness. I know this situation is not typical, I just wanted that reassurance that it has happened to other breeders before. That we did every thing we could do. I'm sorry if I've caused worry in those of you waiting for your first foals. I can see how unusual Vickie's situation truly is.

We would like to breed her again some day as long as she's sound. Would it be wise to find a 30" or less stud to breed her to instead of taking the risk of breeding her back to our stallion? I agree, maybe there is something way back in the pedigree. I don't know if it's the same, but when I was breeding Quarter horses, we had a few mares that could be bred repeatedly to the same stallion with similar sized foals. But then we would try a different stallion and have a huge foal.

Vickie is a daughter of First Knight's Billy Idol, and we hope that maybe some day we will have a chance with her to have a healthy foal. Our next foal isn't due for a few weeks so we have a break. And only one more of these mares is a maiden, the rest are experienced broodmares that have had healthy foals.

I will keep you posted on how Vickie is doing, keep her in your prayers, and thank you so very much for all your support.

 

[eagles ring farm]

I am keeping Vickie in my prayers ...as Chanda said this is the ugly part of breeding miniatures. You just thank God your mare is ok unfortunately losses of foals is a part of it. We have 1 live healthy foal so far this season and 1 mare lost a foal we are waiting on maybe 3 more. The excitement is usually combined with worry as they get closer . Hoping the rest of your season is filed with healthy foals and mares. I am so sorry

 

[crisco41]

Please don't be sorry... it is scarey but I understand that it can be a part of having babies. How silly would I be to go into this blindly thinking nothing about difficult births, mal presentations, red bags? I would rather be aware then skipping blindly through with no idea of possible dangers. I am just sorry that in order for me to be aware..some folks have had to go thru the experience.I am learning an awful lot through this forum. I really had no idea of the complications that are possible.

 

[K Sera]

I'm sorry about your losses this year with your mini foals. I had two losses last year and it sure does make you question why and not want to put yourself or the mares through the pain and heartbreak again .... but I too have one due any day now and I am hopeful things will go well this time and that is what makes it all worth it!

 

[targetsmom]

Oh, gosh I just read this and I am so sorry! It reminds me of our initial start with breeding, and I wouldn't wish our luck on anyone. We had a mare with an experience like you just had - huge foal, needed a fetotomy for the mare to survive - but our mare recovered fine and went on to have two live foals for us. We had bought her because of her fantastic foaling history and for us she has had 3 dead foals. But last year, our luck changed, as yours certainly will at some point, and we had three live magnificent foals from three bred mares, including that one.. Hope your mare recovers like ours did.

Edited to add: Our mare was bred back to the same stallion - our 30.5" SRF Buckshot - and her two live foals in 2010 and 2012 have been TINY! Neither one will ever see 30". So you really never know. Actually, we didn't breed her for this year because we aren't breeding for the really tiny ones - we want driving horses! We are training her and her 2010 gelding to drive.

 

[Eagle]

Sometimes you just need to try different combinations. My stallion was tiny and stood at an impressive 27' but put with one of my smallest mares Britt who was 29.5' always threw big foals that I never managed to get out alive. In 2011 I put her to another stallion who is 29' and she had a gorgeous tiny colt that came very easily. My stallion with my other mares always threw small foals it was just with Britt that the foals came out big. On her side all relatives are small so it must be from his side.

As the others have said it is part of breeding and we have all been in your shoes so we totally understand.

Hugs and prayers coming your way

 

[little lady]

(HUGS) so sorry for your loss. Wishing your mare a full recovery. This is a sad truth when raising animals and it seems the miniature horses have more birthing problems then their full size counter parts. The size of the stallion and mare plus genetics decides the size of the foal so one cannot count on a small foal based only on the size of the stallion. I have been in your shoes and it hurts tremendously.

 

[blazingstarranch]

Hello friends, just wanted to give you an update on Vickie. She is looking so much better today, and though she's not out of the woods we are very encouraged by her progress. She stands 33 inches tall but is very petite through her hips, and very fine boned. The stallion is 32 inches. We have been thinking about breeding her this summer if she does recover fully but she will get a full vet work up first.

This one affected me so much more than all the lost quarter horse and paint foals I have seen over the years. I have seen it all too. But something about these mini's gets you right in the heart. They're so small and childlike, then they have babies who are even smaller and more innocent and helpless. Plus the fetotomy has been burned into my memory like none other.

That's very interesting that some times a certain combination of mare and stallion can possibly produce a large foal while another combo will not. So glad to have you all to help us through all of this!

 

[AnnaC]

Sending ((((HUGS)))) for you and continuing prayers and healing thoughts for little Vickie.