big horse people...I have a question

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The ground is quite frozen at this time and she was picky about where her feet went. She has shoes on her front feet and they are not new. Her feet are soft normally.

Kya doesn't use a bit and is only wearing a rope halter. Kya also has a tendency to buck when cantering so the rider was putting her feet forward just in case. She doesn't normally canter. She also doesn't like being kicked, which is what had to happen to get her to move a little quicker. I was filming to show potential buyers what she does.

Kya does not like riding without another horse nearby and was having a slight attitude.

The run-bys were for the camera alone and were quick and short.

p.s. remember that the rider will be reading this thread as well.

p.s.s. I should add that no one has been inappropriate so far. Just thinking of the future, just in case. Thanks!
 
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Well... fixing a few things equitation-wise would help both parties... 
Your daughter needs to bring her legs back under her seat more - and not have them that far out in front... that makes her sit back on her pockets like an old cowboy and puts her weight further back on the mare's back and not over the center of balance. Kya is not a stocky type of QH... so shifting the weight forward will help her. The tail wringing when she is asked to push off one hind leg into the canter gives a hint that she is not relaxed or balanced - as does how heavy she gets on her forehand when on the right lead for a couple of strides. The faster trot going left to lead into the left lead looks a bit stiff and resistant - she may be hollowing out her back very slightly..

Anyway - bringing the rider's legs back - and the weight off the cantle of the saddle and the mare's loins - will make everything smoother - and feel better for Kya.

After she is ridden - check her back... run your fingers down each side of her spine with pressure... just to make sure she does not cringe a bit or flinch. If she finds finger pressure uncomfortable - that will tell you that riding weight is not working as is...

Just trying to help Kya... I help teach at a Therapeutic Riding Center... where weight on our older horses is always a concern - and we work to help both horse & rider find their balance together.

Heidi... there is no true "collection" there. It is not being asked for - so that is fine... Collection is round, gathered, pushing through from the hindquarters through the back, over the neck and into the bit. Not what Kya is doing... she is simply doing a soft little jog as opposed to being asked to lengthen stride and do a more forward trot... and is being ridden off her halter as far as I can see. She seems to be a very well-mannered litttle mare.

You daughter does not bounce all over the saddle and seems to have quiet, giving hands - that is nice to see!
exactly what I was thinking.
 
The ground is quite frozen at this time and she was picky about where her feet went.  She has shoes on her front feet and they are not new.  Her feet are soft normally.
Ah - well she does seem a bit ouchy in front at that faster trot... the harder ground could explain it...

As well as resistance to being asked to move out...

Kya doesn't use a bit and is only wearing a rope halter.  Kya also has a tendency to buck when cantering so the rider was putting her feet forward just in case.  She doesn't normally canter.
Keeping your feet forward will not save you as much as being centered with your leg on - bucking is best alleviated by keeping her head up, keeping her "together" and moving forward... bucking at a canter could also indicate some soreness or pinching - maybe through her back ... when a saddle and rider are aboard. Checking her back after a ride might be a good idea - as well as saddle fit, as I said.

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bucking at a canter could also indicate some soreness or pinching - maybe through her back ... when a saddle and rider are aboard
I thought this too.

The videos are very nice and she looks balanced. Can I ask how your daughter feels on her? I am 6' tall and had a 15hh Arabian and I never felt "right" on her then after seeing pictures I knew why - we just didn't look like a team
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I sold her and got a 14'3" Appy Gleding who was a barrel and I felt and looked much better on him.
 
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wow well i will say again I think it is fine... I mean come on now.. all those cowboys that this day go out with a saddle and pack and ride there horses all day arent all 150 lbs people and they ride not these big ol draft horses I think it becomes a bit silly to think a horse cant carry weight this isnt a 14 hand pony here

A horse could attempt to buck at the canter cause they simply feel good,

this was a person trotting by in a very quick video..the rest of the videos were short and IMO dont give a person the ability to really see if this horse is uncomfortable or feeling good or anything really..

I dont know I realize this will sound a bit snotty and more snotty then I mean it but..

I find it a bit silly we have all these people bragging that somehow leaving there minis out in the weather means they are letting them truly be horses (as if stalled horses are elephants or something) they are letting them be natural and do what is intended and then on the next hand we act like large horses are these fragile beings that cant do anything or carry any weight and every person over 175 needs to ride a draft just makes no sense ot me like I said anyone wiht working ranches in there area will see plenty a big man riding a cow horse or even reining competitions on what I consider a small horse 15-15.2 ish

sometimes carrying rider, saddle and pack I guess I just dont get it now I am not saying a 280 lbs person go get a 14 hand refined pony but sheesh

I also find it interesting like I said before that many dont think twice about putting 400+ lbs in a cart and saying to a 34 in mini go pull us and trot for miles on end on the pavement mind you and then.. sit in your pasture for a month till we decide to do it again.

I still think IMO in the long run a well balanced heavier rider is WAY better on a horse then a mini trotting on pavement for a few miles

again all this is MY OPINION and many may not agree

and now I have to add I dont think this is what I would consider a heavy rider
 
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Not snotty at all Lisa, just the voice of reason while maintaining respect for the poster.
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I just think she does not look balanced and the mare does not look happy. We were asked for our opinions. I gave mine. I stand by it. I think, in this case, she does need a bigger horse.
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Nothing to do with whether she is too heavy or where and how the horse is kept etc, (not at all sure how that is relevant) she just does not look balanced to me, end of story.
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Lisa... I never said a THING about whether there was too much weight for the horse - I only addressed issues I noticed that could help them be a better team...

As I said - as others said... Balanced weight is an entirely different matter than someone who can't ride and pounds up and down in the saddle or leans on a horse's mouth.

NOWHERE did I say this was a heavy rider...

We were asked for input... so I tried to help - and did not say anything nasty at all - just offering suggestions.

When investigating horse behaviour - such as bucking at the canter with a broke horse - ALWAYS eliminate the possibilty of pain before considering anything else...

just plain ol' horse sense there...
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... and we are all here for the horses...
 
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tag... i never meant to say you said anything nasty at all or that anyone did in fact. I am sorry if you felt that way . Just that large horses arent as fragile as sometimes made out to be here

As for horse sense and assuming pain first.. well I just think differently unless I KNOW THE HORSE and it is trained to what i consider trained and I know how much it is worked vs being in a pasture and trotted around a couple times a week and the age of the horse and its ground manners and if it acts painful upon being saddled if it has a fearful rider it can intimidate, if it is one of those loved horses many of us had with that rent horse mentality
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that looks for ways to get one over on its rider and so many other million scenarios really I dont assume pain is the immeadite first reason in fact my first thought is it is a training, rider issue and then work from there but .. none of us do things the same way which is what keeps it interesting
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OK finally could look at the video's...the only thing I see wrong at all is the rider needs to sit up pull her legs back and drop her heel's.......you will be amazed at how much more balanced she will look........and nope not too big for that horse at all....I watch many cowboys riding their horses of similar size and these are often guys who are easily 6 foot.......

cute horse maybe find an instructor or coach to work with a few times until her body memorizes proper position.........
 
Hi Sarah!!!!!!

I went to bed thinking about this thread! How sad is that!

I think the horse looks a little small for you! If she is the horse of your dreams and you feel right keep her! If not, I would sell her and buy a slightly bigger boned mare.

I like a bigger horse, I am 5'10 and anywhere from 145 and 154 depending on whether I have been allowed full access to pasture or not
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I would like to be able to let my weight fluctuate some and still feel completely comfortable on my horse, but that is just me!! I like the feel of a real solid horse under me. That mare is pretty but she looks too light for what I like, so obviously that is JMHO!!

Now I want to gallop off into the sunset instead I have to go muck out stalls
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Well if you all think she is too big for that horse....this ought to twist your undies into and extreme knot
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The shetland grand national in england where 40 inch ponies run a true steeplechase...yes including brush jumps

pic on top

check out the pages of these ponies actually being ridden
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kellas stud
 
runamuk said:
The shetland grand national in england where 40 inch ponies run a true steeplechase...yes including brush jumps

pic on top

check out the pages of these ponies actually being ridden
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kellas stud

519998[/snapback]

Now that is what I call a Shetland!! I love them just like that!!

Loved the Steeplechasing!!

OK.. here is me riding Dyfra. Now this is way back when I started riding again after the car accident. I did not have any balance and my muscles did not work well. Like I said before, Dyfra has no problem carrying my weight. But I am also very, very careful about saddle fit.

http://hometown.aol.com/autumnhaus/images/...kingawayj04.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/autumnhaus/images/...%2026june04.jpg

And check out these web sites.
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Tall people on small horses.

http://www.icelandichorse.is/

http://www.eidfaxi.is/eindex.php
 
Shari said:
runamuk said:
The shetland grand national in england where 40 inch ponies run a true steeplechase...yes including brush jumps

pic on top

check out the pages of these ponies actually being ridden
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kellas stud

519998[/snapback]

Now that is what I call a Shetland!! I love them just like that!!

Loved the Steeplechasing!!

OK.. here is me riding Dyfra. Now this is way back when I started riding again after the car accident. I did not have any balance and my muscles did not work well. Like I said before, Dyfra has no problem carrying my weight. But I am also very, very careful about saddle fit.

http://hometown.aol.com/autumnhaus/images/...kingawayj04.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/autumnhaus/images/...%2026june04.jpg

And check out these web sites.
wink.gif
Tall people on small horses.

http://www.icelandichorse.is/

http://www.eidfaxi.is/eindex.php

520012[/snapback]

Hee hee yep I remember the first time I saw a group riding icelandics...they blew by at about 150mph
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then up close I realized several of the men could darn near put their feet on the ground from the saddle..........small but mighty for sure.......and man can those animals move fast ...........
 
The Shettie Grand National is held at Olympia. It is NOT a real race, it would be much too dangerous, the kids all get a chance at being first each night. The children riding are around 11-14 yrs old and go by weight, not so much size. The Ponies are around 38-42" (42 being the upper height limit for Shetties) and are not usually owned by the kids but lent by people that Pat Renwick sweeps up in her enthusiasm!!!
 
runamuk said:
Hee hee yep I remember the first time I saw a group riding icelandics...they blew by at about 150mph 
biggrin.gif
  then up close I realized several of the men could darn near put their feet on the ground from the saddle..........small but mighty for sure.......and man can those animals move fast ...........

520033[/snapback]


Tell me about it.
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I think the young lady is just fine on that horse. With nice gaits as that horse appears to have, I think it'd be a mistake to sell her. Kids always want to change horses eventually anyway as their skills and interests refine so no doubt if your daughter keeps her interest in horses she will want a different one in time. If that's a good sensible horse and if it were me and she was my daughter I would quit worrying and wait until she focuses on a particular aspect of horsemanship and then start looking for another horse.
 
Hi all...
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Well I watched the video...Where's her helmut first off?
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.... and I don't feel that the rider is too heavy, though I think she may be/feel too tall.

A rule of thumb for me is if I can draw a line from the childs head and it goes Over the horses head, then it's time to swap Up. The rider looks comfy and balanced, and the ovbious leg fault was already brought up and I agree with the other comments about the over all riding, and thoughts on a instructor. I am one that thinks that horses were never designed for us to sit on them (Natural horsemandship! Pahhha! What a marketing scam!) and therefore the bigger riders on smaller horses freak me out. I will go for the occasional walking trail on my school ponies, but never ask them to Really work with Me up there... It's not fair IMO.

I also agree that throwing your legs foward will do you Nothing in a bucking horse (or anthing on a horse for that matter
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). Keeping their head up and addressing other issues will....

I would like to see the rider on a bigger boned horse though. She rides nicely, but will quickly outgrow what this mare can give her if she is looking into preformance of any kind, including cosistant trail riding at anything faster then a walk.

However, I really have a problem with the mares movement. In the first video you can see it the best..., her stifel is Out, big time. Go look at it, watch how her back leg toward the camera kinda slips toward the camera,versus comming though. Nothing about her movement suggest "coming though, frame, or correct " in my head, though the mare is trying her heart out, as well as the rider.

Many people never see this (and it drives me nuts), but it's there. Hence her creeping trot, hallow back, and bucking at the canter. I really agree with Rabbit on what she said, but wanted to add...I bet she bucks espically at corners, or turns, then stops it suddenly. The stifel "sticks" and thats the only thing she can do to get it unstuck. The saddle fit should be questioned as well. She may be reacting to the bad ground, but IMO, she's off. Nothing about the video suggests the mare is comfy to me, though it speaks volumes for how willing and sweet she is!
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Her ears go back and her tail starts wringing when she hits the canter, and she looks "mincy" to me in the trot, like she is trying to balance keeping her back frozen (which is bad) to keep from using her stifel, (even worse) to please the rider, (What a good girl!) I bet her trot is Way bigger in the paddock, her shoulder suggests it, but she can't use them with the way she feels...

I would check for heat in her stifels after you ride her, just give that area a light squeeze, but be careful, if she Really hurts, she may kick out. I would only trot her for a while, on packed but not hard ground, and do lots of hills, and do No cantering for a while.

Also posting may be a good thing to learn for your daughter, and yes I and many others post just fine in a western saddle. It will give your mare a chance to use her back better, as she will not have to worry about keeping your daughter safe, as she ovbiously does, and balencing herself.

I realize that this will not be a popular opinion, but it's what I do for a living, and nine times out of ten, the vets back me up. A good part of my income is riding and fixing problem horses, who often have this very easy to correct problem driving them nuts. It amazes me how many people miss it... I would call your vet out and have his opinion on the mare's soundness, just me though.

Kudos to you and your daughter to looking out for the well being of your mare! She's a very nice mare, one I would value in any program with kids, and your daughter has all the promise of becoming a very good rider!
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Edited to add a pic of one of my students who is way too tall on the pony she is sitting on, but due to the pony's long back and the childs slight build, there is no probelm in riding, and the pony can pack her around a jump course easily as long as she is balenced. However, this would not be an appropiate combo for any type of showing.
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