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Frankie

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Before anyone gets defensive, this honestly has nothing to do with any person or any one thread.

I do not put up pictures of my horses and ask for opinions. I have put up pictures and asked if some may think a tail set is too low, or neck needs work, etc. The reason I do not ask for opinions on a horse is because it is one persons opinion. Whether a forum member or a judge, it does not make that opinion "right". It makes it right only for that one instance that particular person looks at the horse. The same as if you bought a horse that 50 buyers had already turned down, but when you looked at him, he was "right".

Granted, people do ask what we think. But often we just tear the horse apart, offering no suggestions to help. Maybe we can still say what we think, but too offer suggestions to help them, is that not what the forum is about? Too, I really doubt they truly ask for suggestions on a horse and expect someone to write a full page on just how bad the horse is. Honestly, would you want someone to do that to any horse of yours? Even if you asked?

I hope people who do ask for opinions know that your horse can still show. A lot of hard work does great things for a horse and the exhibitor. Showing can be so much fun and if you truly want to, I hope anything said by anyone here when asking for their opinion does not prevent you from doing so. No matter how much experience a person may have, their opinion may and many times will differ from a judge you may show under. The same as 2 judges opinion may differ.

Last year I was running out of space in my barn lot, I made the decision to put Sophie up for sale. Three different forum members looked at her seriously but decided she was not high enough caliber for the show horse they were looking for. It did not bother me at all. Their opinions and I respect that. Sophie has 6 over all grands this year. My point with that, if I had listened to some, I would have kept her home. But the right person and a TON of work is 100% the reason why she does so good. And I believe that can happen with many other horses, even those put here on the forum that many here may not believe to be the best of show horses.

My main reason for this post. I do not want to see anyone left out of anything because they accepted the opinion of some people when they just need to put forth the effort, work, get your horse in the ring, have fun and just see what happens.

I also would like to see more suggestions offered to help a person instead of making them feel about 2 inches tall for owning the horse they do. This has happened on many occasions and I know for a fact there are many members who will NOT ask for an opinion on a horse for that exact reason. You can offer help and give your opinion, but starting at one end of the horse and going to the other with nothing but critisism, is NOT helpful, only hurtful.

And again, yes they do ask, but when it gets to the hurtful stage, they no longer hear you.

We should be offering constructive advice, not painful to listen to advice, and yes, there is a difference. MANY care so much for their horses they feel the attack personally.

Sorry, but I'd hate to lose an forum member or a fellow show person, or just a friend, and yes it is happening,,,,,, over something that can be avoided if we would speak with a kinder heart.
 

angie21467

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Wonderful post


It would be great if people did what you are talking about. Instead of just pointing out faults, point out the good things, too. Also, if more experienced people could give pointers on how the accentuate those good points and diminish the faults it would really be helpful. Just teach the best way to show that particular horse to its full advantage.
 

Marty

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Thank you Carolyn! I am sure a lot of us feel as you do. I have noticed that the attitude has been more "gentle" on the critiques lately too.

I also have never, and will never put any of my horses up here for critique. I'm not barn blind; I just know I don't have any kind of high caliber halter horses sitting here and I don't feel the need to put them up to be torn to pieces by those that have no mercy whatsoever.

I do like to learn from the critiques however if it's done with some tact.

But some people just go overboard with the negativity.There is something in the world called "constructive critism."

Let's keep in mind that most horses are not halter horses in the first place~ but that every horse does have a gift, a special talent, be it jumping or obstacles or driving, or eating his own poop, that if brought out can be a potential winner even if his talent is to be none other than to sit in your lap for lovin or nip you in the rear! And a true horse lover knows this.

Now I am here to testify that I got a horse here with one heck of a talent that has fabulous aim and that she will poop in her bucket every single day one complete load and if you just point me to where that contest is being held, I'll enter her and by golly we'll win that one hands down.
 
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Buckskin gal

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Wonderful post Carolyn.
I would never ask for a critique of one of my horses on the forum either because I have doubts that anyone can tell everything there is to tell from just a picture or two. To be fair to my horses, if I need a critique, I will ask it be evaluated in the flesh by persons I think are knowledgeable. I think it is wonderful for all to share pics of their horses but to have someone simply tear the horse apart, instead of tactfully say where it may need some improvement, is really not being of help. I have learned more, through the years, from people who simply share their thoughts then from those who come off as know it alls. I think those who can breed minis, who have the quality to show well, can be proud of their work [and they are the ones I have loved to learn from] but I also see those who just go out and buy a horse to show and win and then think they know all there is to know about horses.

I too think only one opionion is just not enough to go on and we all can study that standard and work at getting an eye for a correct miniature horse. Mary

Frankie said:
Before anyone gets defensive, this honestly has nothing to do with any person or any one thread. I do not put up pictures of my horses and ask for opinions. I have put up pictures and asked if some may think a tail set is too low, or neck needs work, etc. The reason I do not ask for opinions on a horse is because it is one persons opinion. Whether a forum member or a judge, it does not make that opinion "right". It makes it right only for that one instance that particular person looks at the horse. The same as if you bought a horse that 50 buyers had already turned down, but when you looked at him, he was "right".

Granted, people do ask what we think. But often we just tear the horse apart, offering no suggestions to help. Maybe we can still say what we think, but too offer suggestions to help them, is that not what the forum is about? Too, I really doubt they truly ask for suggestions on a horse and expect someone to write a full page on just how bad the horse is. Honestly, would you want someone to do that to any horse of yours? Even if you asked?

I hope people who do ask for opinions know that your horse can still show. A lot of hard work does great things for a horse and the exhibitor. Showing can be so much fun and if you truly want to, I hope anything said by anyone here when asking for their opinion does not prevent you from doing so. No matter how much experience a person may have, their opinion may and many times will differ from a judge you may show under. The same as 2 judges opinion may differ.

Last year I was running out of space in my barn lot, I made the decision to put Sophie up for sale. Three different forum members looked at her seriously but decided she was not high enough caliber for the show horse they were looking for. It did not bother me at all. Their opinions and I respect that. Sophie has 6 over all grands this year. My point with that, if I had listened to some, I would have kept her home. But the right person and a TON of work is 100% the reason why she does so good. And I believe that can happen with many other horses, even those put here on the forum that many here may not believe to be the best of show horses.

My main reason for this post. I do not want to see anyone left out of anything because they accepted the opinion of some people when they just need to put forth the effort, work, get your horse in the ring, have fun and just see what happens.

I also would like to see more suggestions offered to help a person instead of making them feel about 2 inches tall for owning the horse they do. This has happened on many occasions and I know for a fact there are many members who will NOT ask for an opinion on a horse for that exact reason. You can offer help and give your opinion, but starting at one end of the horse and going to the other with nothing but critisism, is NOT helpful, only hurtful.

And again, yes they do ask, but when it gets to the hurtful stage, they no longer hear you.

We should be offering constructive advice, not painful to listen to advice, and yes, there is a difference. MANY care so much for their horses they feel the attack personally.

Sorry, but I'd hate to lose an forum member or a fellow show person, or just a friend, and yes it is happening,,,,,, over something that can be avoided if we would speak with a kinder heart.

420255[/snapback]

 

Michelle@wescofarms

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Great post Carolyn!

Everyone has there on tastes, likes/dislikes, other than obvious conformational problems.

It is way to hard to judge a horse from one or five photos. I'm living proof for making my horses ugly with a camera! We took 34 photos of one of our stallions the other day - 3 okay head shots were the results - not good - but not horrible. It is hard to take really good flattering photos for a critique.

Buyers that come out remark - almost everyone - how much better my horses look in person!

So, hopefully if someone offers a critique, they'll offer a kind word of advice too.
 

DebiM

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Good Job, Carolyn! I don't respond on those threads for that very reason!
 

Dee

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Carolyn,

Yes, I do agree with your post. I just have to add that I am new to minis and find that with ever question I ask I have 10 more new questions to add to that
.

I however have posted many of my horses on this forum to get opinions on their faults and strong points. I am learning and so many people have helped me so much.

Some will pick at a flaw that to me doesn't really matter. Other will pick one out and I will look at my horse and say, "Hey, Yeah, that isn't their strongest point, I never noticed it before." It’s a huge learning experience for me and I am so lucky to have the help. Everyone sees every horse different and that why I love other people's opinions. Personally I have a mare that is more draft horse type. I think she is just as cute as a button, others who prefer the arab looking type might not like her at all, but if you are going to ask you have to be prepared to get the true honest answer. No beatin’ around the bush.

Yes, people will pick a horse apart and tell you what is wrong, but hey you asked so be ready to hear the good and the bad.

This is a very intresting post and you put it all so well.


Dee
 

Ginny

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Great post Carolyn! I say if you truly love something then go for it no matter what other people say. If we had listened to some of the people that used to be close to us then we wouldn't have the herd we have today and we are very proud of what we have put together.

Our horses don't always win and they don't always lose, but we love them and we think they are beautiful and we have a blast loving them and showing them... win or lose.

Thanks again for the great post!

Ginny Long
 

ChrystalPaths

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Carolyn! How very articulate and wonderfully clear your thread is. I heartily agree and applaud you for saying it so well.
 

Frankie

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When someone is wanting or needing to learn, I more than realize that only telling them the good points is not the best way to learn. When I read this again I almost made it sound like we shouldn't be letting them know the bad points, (or what I am really saying here,) letting them know what may need to be improved or worked on.

My point is the WAY and the TONE of how we point out the bad points. I may ask for an opinion, and truly want that opinion, but when I have blood, sweat, tears, bruises and money in that horse, it might hurt just a little bit more than I think.

For example: if I put a horse up for all those to look at, there is a difference between:

"That horse is entirely way to fat, wront type body to show, keep him in your barn yard"

and

" If you really want to show that horse, have you considered a different conditioning program and what kind of feeding schedule is he on? I am sure your dedication could do a lot for this horse."

You don't have to feed them a bunch of bull, just rearrange words some so it's not a hurtful statement.

I know there are many forum members who have benefitted and learned from these type threads, but in my opinion it does not need to be done at the expense of losing even one member.

And Ginny, I love looking at your horses and I for one am VERY GLAD YOU LISTENED TO YOUR OWN HEART AND HEAD, if you hadn't, all of us would be missing out as well!
 

Lauralee

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I agree with everything already said.

I also wanted to add that:

We should encourage beginners and kids to show WHATEVER horse they own. It doesn't matter if the horse is obviously not a national caliber horse. What matters is that THEY PARTICIPATE and get involved!

So perhaps we should ask "What type of showing would you be doing? What level of winning is your goal?" ...or state so in the critique "would be a super entry in amateur halter...etc....Before we rip the horse apart against the standards for an open pro national caliber horse.
 

Jill

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I feel like when people ask for opinions abou their horse, they should get honest opinions. People should not hold their horse out for critique if they don't want honest opinions.

That said, I have not ever seen a horse where I could not identify several things I DO like about the horse. I think if you are going to point out the things you don't care for in someone else's horse, you should also point out the things you do like.
 

Cronewolf

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Many years ago now, when I was on the dog show circuit, no matter how bad a animal looks there is always something good to say.

Even if what pretty eyes or color, nice long ears, nice coat something no animal is ever compleatly ugly. So even if asked, remember these are someones "babies" pretend they are yours and be nice. I do remember one time this puppy was torn up by the "experts" not one thing did they say good. I would have never thought to show this pup, but the owner did anyway and finished it's championship in 3 shows a reaal flyer.
 
L

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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Dee said:
Carolyn,: .

I however have posted many of my horses on this forum to get opinions on their faults and strong points. I am learning and so many people have helped me so much.

Some will pick at a flaw that to me doesn't really matter. Other will pick one out and I will look at my horse and say, "Hey, Yeah, that isn't their strongest point, I never noticed it before." It’s a huge learning experience for me and I am so lucky to have the help. Everyone sees every horse different and that why I love other people's opinions. Personally I have a mare that is more draft horse type. I think she is just as cute as a button, others who prefer the arab looking type might not like her at all, but if you are going to ask you have to be prepared to get the true honest answer. No beatin’ around the bush.

420341[/snapback]

Now Dee i agree with you .. there is a nice way to say something but bottom line is if you ask you will get other opinions just like if you show you will get different opinions from judges.

Most of us don't always see the faults in our horses our love keeps them from being perhaps as glaring as they are to others however i think if you are going to breed .. you need to know and hear others opinions to really help make proper breeding decisions. I know it has helped me over the years and can say the quality in my herd and my foals has sure shown it.

Now i dont go around telling people about there horses but if asked yes even in person i will give "my" opinion for them to take or leave. I know i have gotten some opinions from conformation experts and not only were they nto something i agreed with but when i have seen there horses i realized that our ideas of conformation are TOTALLY Different.

again i have the people that I ask and respect and am willing to listen to- the last thing I need personally is someone who will yes me to death
 
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capall beag

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That is a thoughtful and smart post and very well thought out!

I like the critique's I must say I find them helpful BUT it is not my horse in the picture!!

However, so true what you say about "it is just one opinion"

I know what I like and I am blinded by that! I just went to a friends to see her "beautiful new mini", he is not really my cup of tea, just an opinion and one that I KEPT to myself and instead told my friend how happy I was for her!!

Encouragement is a wonderful thing! Well Done!
 

Magic

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Frankie said:
Last year I was running out of space in my barn lot, I made the decision to put Sophie up for sale. Three different forum members looked at her seriously but decided she was not high enough caliber for the show horse they were looking for.
420255[/snapback]


I would like to say that *I* was one of those people seriously looking at Sophie when she was for sale.
And no, the reason I didn't get her after all is NOT because I felt she wasn't high enough caliber for showing--- I've seen her siblings in person and they are drop dead GORGEOUS, and I knew that Sophie was too. My decision was based on the fact that I already had too many horses that I was unable to show them all, and adding another that really should be shown (IMO) was not a good idea. If Sophie had come here, she wouldn't have been in the show ring at all yet, and I have an awful lot of horses right now, so I made the right decision (but I wish it could have been otherwise). I'm very happy for Carolyn that she's been able to get Sophie shown tho.


And I agree with your post too, we all should think about what we are saying before we say it, and consider, would we say this to someone's face, or are we hiding behind the "anonymity" of the internet?
 

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