Bad Trim, Short Feet

[jleonard]

I had the farrier out today to trim my very overdue herd (bad me). This was only the fourth time we've used this farrier. The first time everything was fine, all of the horses looked good. Second time everyone was fine except for Locita, who has had hoof issues in the past. She was a little tender footed, and I noticed that her sole was touching the ground around the edge.

I had the farrier out again a few weeks later to reset a shoe on a biggie and had him take a look at Locita as she was still tender. He filed off a bit of her sole and told us to put her in the side field (with a muzzle) where there was a little more grass to give her a softer surface to walk on as the ground around here is concrete at the moment. That seemed to help a bit, but she was never 100%.

I also wrapped her feet to give a bit more padding. Fast forward to today, she was very long, her hooves have been growing at twice the rate of everyone else. The farrier took a ton off, she is short, but not terribly so. What really concerns me is that her sole on all four hooves, rather than being concave, is convex. I don't know if anyone is familiar with the Reebok "butt" shoes with the balance balls on the bottom, but that is what her hooves now look like. One has a huge groove carved out of it. I can put my whole finger under the edge of that hoof when it is on the ground and it doesn't even touch.

He did not clean out her hooves at all (I barely had time to get them up, so hadn't picked them yet), he did not even look at her frog. She is now extremely sore. Her feet tend to turn out when they get long, but our previous farrier (who retired) could trim her so that she tracked straight and was comfortable. After this trim they are turned out more than ever and she cannot walk normally. I've been out to check her twice and to show my parents, the second time she was laying down, didn't want to get up, and had to rock back on her haunches to turn around. I feel terrible that she is in so much pain. The others had similar issues, but not to this extent and thus far they are not sore. Needless to say this farrier will not be back.

I am going to call my vet, as I need to have him out anyway and I want a professional to look at her and tell us where to go from here. Is there anything I can do in the mean time to make her more comfortable? What long term side effects do I need to worry about?

Thanks for your help, sorry for the long read.

 

[barnbum]

Oh gosh, how frustrating!!! I'm sorry you're dealing with this!!

The only piece of information I can offer is my farrier said hooves that are inflammed grow much faster. I had my first case of lamainitis this spring, and Rosie's right hoof grew so much more than her others. I rasped it between his visits and he came more often than usual.

If you have Banamine, I'd give her some--just once a day and with Gastrogard with you can. Banamine always helped Rosie when she was struggling.

 

[kaykay]

So sorry for you and your horse. I would do like Karla said and give a small amount of banamine until you can get the vet out. Definitely time for a new farrier.

I cant tell you how many horses I see where the "farrier" doesnt trim the hoof wall, sole or even pick them out. Just cuts the toe off and calls it a trim ughhh

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Oh, poor Locita!!!

My poor sweet girl. People keep asking me why I'm still using a farrier when I've now graduated to using nippers on my kids but there is no way I'd pretend to have the depth of knowledge and skill a GOOD farrier needs. I can take off some length (and do) to draw out the time between appointments but I know nothing about diagnosing hoof problems like this or how to correct something that's getting so out of hand. Poor Locita!!

Comfort-wise though, yes. I'd call the vet out first since I'd be afraid that the bulging sole might be related to some rotation of the coffin bone or something (I don't know enough to say it's not!) and then I'd give her some Banamine and wrap those feet in diapers and duct tape. Can you try putting some iodine on the soles? You know Kody's always been tenderfooted after trims and when Turbo started doing it too my farrier and I changed some things and started putting iodine down there immediately after trimming and the boys aren't sore anymore. I don't know for sure that's what did it, but it couldn't hurt and might help.

If the ground is really dry can you make a mud wallow in her paddock and let her stand in it? Good soft squishy cool mud might feel nice and give her some relief. Put DEEP bedding in her stall at night and do the diaper thing. See what the vet says but if there's no problem with her bones in the sole of that foot and the biggest problem is that he cut the wall too short then I'd build her up again with some Vettech Super Fast and use that to turn the foot forward again as well. That will buy her time to regrow and then you can work on slowly correcting her issues with the help of your vet or a good farrier.

I know how you feel- it makes you just sick when the farrier puts that foot down and you can see how wrong it is but it's too late to fix it. Kody has gotten to the point where he hates the farrier and you can tell it's because he's smart enough to know he'll be in pain when she's done. That's not the case anymore but it's going to take a long time to prove that to him!

Leia

 

[ssshowhorses]

I had almost the same problem as you! We bought a mare that was clubbed on her front feet (due to poor farrier work before we bought her) and we had a farrier that was coming out and doing them and kept cutting them as they were growing which was keeping them clubbed. The mare had always been just a bit off and never seemed comfortable on her front feet but that was how she had always been so we didn't think much of it. We then decided to start doing feet ourselves and I started cutting her feet properly to drop her back on her heels and cutting out her soles properly and within a few trims she is back to having perfectly normal feet. If you are not comfortable doing them yourself you should maybe look around for a new farrier, it is had to find one that will actually take the proper time and care with a miniature. And of course if you feel that she is bad enough, call the vet but I would be willing to bet they cant do anything for her until she can get her feet done properly. Hope you find a solution!

 

[MindyLee]

I see this a lot when trimming feet. And the proper way is to get that out of there to balance to hoof out so the horse is balanced and confertable. Nipping toe off only is NOT trimming the hoof right. I figure 5-15 min per hoof (pending the hoof) is reasonable to make sure all is good then that foot is done.

And for clubed feet heal heal heal!!! no toe trimmings untill really needing it!

Time to find a new experianced mini horse farrier for you!!! Good luck!

 

[Marty]

Going on what Leia has said, I also would make a large cushion bandage for right now out of stay-free maxi pad, cut in half, wrap with vet wrap and keep her in a deeply bedded stall. You can get her some "hoof freeze" and venice turpentine on there also and some doses of banemine for sure. When you have a problem such as this, just the stress of pain can set off a full blown founder so pain management is key. Try not to feel awful because I have had the absolute worst so called farriers in the world here in Tennessee.

This is going alarm you but I would have that foot X rayed. A dropped sole is a sign of founder. Just to rule out the worst case scenerio, as a preventitive measure, it could be that if she was foundered, it may be her coffin bone trying to erupt through the bottom of her sole.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

 

[jleonard]

The only piece of information I can offer is my farrier said hooves that are inflammed grow much faster. I had my first case of lamainitis this spring, and Rosie's right hoof grew so much more than her others. I rasped it between his visits and he came more often than usual.

If you have Banamine, I'd give her some--just once a day and with Gastrogard with you can. Banamine always helped Rosie when she was struggling.

That is interesting, she has always grown fast, but I was shocked by the amount of hoof growth she had this time. There was probably a good half inch of new growth.

I'll definitely be giving her some Banamine.

So sorry for you and your horse. I would do like Karla said and give a small amount of banamine until you can get the vet out. Definitely time for a new farrier.

I cant tell you how many horses I see where the "farrier" doesnt trim the hoof wall, sole or even pick them out. Just cuts the toe off and calls it a trim ughhh

That is what this guy did. It's especially frustrating as he came highly recommended.

Comfort-wise though, yes. I'd call the vet out first since I'd be afraid that the bulging sole might be related to some rotation of the coffin bone or something (I don't know enough to say it's not!) and then I'd give her some Banamine and wrap those feet in diapers and duct tape. Can you try putting some iodine on the soles?

If the ground is really dry can you make a mud wallow in her paddock and let her stand in it? Good soft squishy cool mud might feel nice and give her some relief. Put DEEP bedding in her stall at night and do the diaper thing. See what the vet says but if there's no problem with her bones in the sole of that foot and the biggest problem is that he cut the wall too short then I'd build her up again with some Vettech Super Fast and use that to turn the foot forward again as well. That will buy her time to regrow and then you can work on slowly correcting her issues with the help of your vet or a good farrier.

Going on what Leia has said, I also would make a large cushion bandage for right now. You can get her some "hoof freeze" and venice turpentine on there also and some doses of banemine for sure. When you have a problem such as this, just the stress of pain can set off a full blown founder so pain management is key.

This is going alarm you but I would have that foot X rayed. A dropped sole is a sign of founder. Just to rule out the worst case scenerio, as a preventitive measure, it could be that if she was foundered, it may be her coffin bone trying to erupt through the bottom of her sole.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Lots of good ideas Leia and Marty, thanks. When she was tender before I bought some premie diapers (perfect for mini feet) and was putting some hoof freeze on there which did seem to help. I'll get out there and get her wrapped up and some fresh shavings in her stall.

I was afraid that the dropped sole could be a sign of rotation (before it just looked like he trimmed her too short, but this time I don't know). I thought she would have been more severe before this if there was something that serious going on, but I do not have any personal experience with founder, so I really don't know. I did check frequently for heat and never felt any... I am going to call the vet tomorrow and see what he says, but I do think I'd like x-rays so we know for sure what is going on. It's funny, this year with the drought I have not worried as much about founder as our fields are basically dry lots. I have not muzzled except in the spring as there wasn't anything to eat and everyone was maintaining a good weight. I suppose if she was already prone to it the constant concussion from the hard ground could have brought it on? I hope it is not anything so serious

I had almost the same problem as you! We bought a mare that was clubbed on her front feet (due to poor farrier work before we bought her) and we had a farrier that was coming out and doing them and kept cutting them as they were growing which was keeping them clubbed. The mare had always been just a bit off and never seemed comfortable on her front feet but that was how she had always been so we didn't think much of it. We then decided to start doing feet ourselves and I started cutting her feet properly to drop her back on her heels and cutting out her soles properly and within a few trims she is back to having perfectly normal feet. If you are not comfortable doing them yourself you should maybe look around for a new farrier, it is had to find one that will actually take the proper time and care with a miniature. And of course if you feel that she is bad enough, call the vet but I would be willing to bet they cant do anything for her until she can get her feet done properly. Hope you find a solution!

This sounds just like her. She is clubby, especially in the one front hoof, and she has a ton of heel. I am not comfortable trimming them myself, especially when she needs corrective trimming, but I am on the hunt for a great farrier. I'm done with these mediocre (putting it mildly) farriers that I have been trying lately.

I see this a lot when trimming feet. And the proper way is to get that out of there to balance to hoof out so the horse is balanced and confertable. Nipping toe off only is NOT trimming the hoof right. I figure 5-15 min per hoof (pending the hoof) is reasonable to make sure all is good then that foot is done.

And for clubed feet heal heal heal!!! no toe trimmings untill really needing it!

Time to find a new experianced mini horse farrier for you!!! Good luck!

5-15 minutes per hoof? This guy spent 5 minutes on her total! If that! To trim 7 horses (four 12-13h ponies, one horse, and two minis) he took less than 40 minutes and not one of them looks good. Thank you for reinforcing the heel trimming idea, now I will know better what to tell the next one (although hopefully they will know it themselves!)

Ironically, I nearly missed this appointment as I was on a lab field trip to the KY Farrier School and was learning about trimming horses today. Wish I could have brought one of those guys back with me, they knew what they were talking about! I may just contact them and see about some recommendations.

Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I will update with what the vet says. Fingers crossed that it will be as simple as letting her grow out then trimming properly from here on out

 

[kaykay]

Thats a huge red flag if a farrier is trimming 4 hooves in 5 mins. I dont care how experienced they are that cant be done correctly. A few months ago we helped a new person in minis. Kyle and I went and trimmed 2 and omg it was horrible. This person couldnt believe how long we spent (we had to because of the issues by the previous farrier) She said her ex farrier spent about 5 mins per horse. WRONG. These poor minis hadnt had their hoof wall, frog or anything trimmed except their toes.

 

[wildoak]

Not much I can add to what's been said, except that with founder and foot issues in general, I've had better response with bute. I know lots of people won't use it on minis and that's an individual call, but just my experience.

Sounds like your best bet asap is to have her xrayed and find out how serious her problem is.

Jan

 

[HGFarm]

I would talk to your vet and get a new farrier. I have seen MANY over the years that did ok on a regular shoeing job, but with something special, just couldnt do it. I have also seen some of the bad habits that a farrier will get into and the messes made because of it. If you are noticing problems and a change after the farrier is there- then there IS a problem and he should be doing the WHOLE FOOT, not just trimming the walls- that means the frog, sole and the whole nine yards. It is not worth having a lame horse, pumping medicine into one and vet bills because of a bad farrier.... I would surely find another!!

 

[Marty]

Jessica here is a list of natural barefoot trimmers in Kentucky. Notice there is one close by you right in Paris. Be sure when doing a phone interview you ask if they are Pete Ramey trained or Gene Oberneck. If they are using the Strasser method, no no no, run away!

Kentucky

Trena Morris CP (Certified Practioner) Hodgenville, Kentucky Training & Certification: AANHCP - email: theincrediblebarehoof @ gmail.com - Ph# 270-268-1998

Areas covered: Kentucky, North Tennessee, Southern Indiana. I've been trimming for 2 years through AANHCP, 5 years total. I do consultations and am passionate about the total care i.e. diet, boarding, handling... of the horse. I service horses with all laminitic issues. I am patient and work with horses of all ages. Will trim stallions that can be handled gently-this means picking up feet w/out him kicking! and has respect for humans! (03/08)

Maureen Tierney, Paris, Kentucky. Phone 859-340-0396 - email: maureen @ forthehorse.net

Natural hoof care practitioner with 9 years trimming experience. Available for trims, consultations, and instruction. Easycare and Renegade hoof boot dealer. www.barefoottrimming.com (08/09)

Steve Johnson, Kentucky - 270.999.1389 cell - 270.526.7497 home - Tawnimarah @ hotmail.com - www.DragonflyFarmsHoofcare.com

AANHCP - Certified Practioner, Field Instructor and Clinician. Step 5 and Step 9 and NTW Clinician. Foundered Horse Rehabilitation Center, taking in horses now. Serving all of Kentucky, South Eastern Illinois, Southern Indiana, Western Tennessee and Northern Mississippi. (09/08)

Beth Lanman, Covington, Kentucky - 513.304.3534 (cell) or 859.491.4420 (residence). Email: giddyup2 @ gmail.com

AANHCP, Natural Hoof Care Practioner serving Kentucky, Ohio and Indiana. References upon request. (08/07)

 

[jleonard]

Thats a huge red flag if a farrier is trimming 4 hooves in 5 mins. I dont care how experienced they are that cant be done correctly. A few months ago we helped a new person in minis. Kyle and I went and trimmed 2 and omg it was horrible. This person couldnt believe how long we spent (we had to because of the issues by the previous farrier) She said her ex farrier spent about 5 mins per horse. WRONG. These poor minis hadnt had their hoof wall, frog or anything trimmed except their toes.

I knew it was totally wrong. I've had fast farriers in the past, but they did at least consider what they were doing, this guy just hacked off some length without considering the consequences. He did take off about the same amount all the way around. Just nipped it all off, rasped the edges a bit and that was it.

Not much I can add to what's been said, except that with founder and foot issues in general, I've had better response with bute. I know lots of people won't use it on minis and that's an individual call, but just my experience.

Sounds like your best bet asap is to have her xrayed and find out how serious her problem is.

Jan

I will ask the vet what he suggests as far as Bute vs. Banamine, I've used both in the past, but of course prefer Banamine when possible.

The vet is coming around 2-3 this afternoon, until then she has all 4 feet wrapped, and is standing in her deeply bedded stall with a little Banamine in her. She was at least standing and bright eyed when I went out this morning.

Here are a few pics.

As you can see, her hoof wall does not touch the ground, she is walking on her sole. All of her feet are like this.

This is what really bothers me, there is no excuse for this chunk to be missing.

I don't know how well you can see, but my finger is actually underneath her hoof wall in that missing chunk. Her hoof does not touch my finger at all.

This is the worst frog. As you can see, it has not been touched, nor have the dead parts of the sole. You cannot see just how crooked that frog has grown, or the fact that it is longer than anything else.

This just shows how her sole is convex.

Again, all of your help is very much appreciated. I'll update when the vet leaves.

 

[jleonard]

HGFarm, that's a bit like this guy. He did a good job on my Thoroughbred with shoes, but now she is gone and they are all trims and they all have issues.

Thanks you Marty for that list, I will look into them and see if my vet has heard of any of them. Rood and Riddle (who we use) also has a good podiatry department, which may be an option to get her back on track.

 

[MindyLee]

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That looks like crap! I would be imbarrest if I trimmed a foot like that. If I did that, that would be the day I put down my farrier tools! I dont even think a amature would do that bad of a job. Sorry you have to deal with that and good luck having it fixed.

Poor baby girl...

It sadens me to see what a so-called pro can do. Common sense to your farrier would say that is a really bad trim... Guess he has none.

Dont worry, it will grow back and hopefully someone else can fix this mistake and get her feet back on the right track.

 

[wildoak]

Wow, terrible trim! Yes, I'd say it's time for you to find a new farrier lol...that one needs to go back to school.

Jan

 

[wingnut]

{{{ hugs to both you and your girl }}}

I thought my farrier was fast but it takes him 45-60 minutes to do my 4 girls. He always trims the soles and frogs. Honestly, I wouldn't have known it was the way its supposed to be done. I appreciate your posting about this because it's another good piece of information for those of us still learning!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I can't see the pictures from my work computer but from the sound of this I bet I'm going to be sick when I can. Poor Locita.

5-15 minutes per hoof? This guy spent 5 minutes on her total! If that! To trim 7 horses (four 12-13h ponies, one horse, and two minis) he took less than 40 minutes and not one of them looks good.

Jay-sus!!!

I think I would have kicked the bloody b@stard out of my barn after the first horse! Seriously, my farrier takes almost an hour to do both minis to my satisfaction and watches them walk and trot until we're both happy with all eight hooves.

Ironically, I nearly missed this appointment as I was on a lab field trip to the KY Farrier School and was learning about trimming horses today. Wish I could have brought one of those guys back with me, they knew what they were talking about! I may just contact them and see about some recommendations.

I would! Good lord, with that many good vets around I can't believe the farriers have been so crappy. I mean, KY is high-dollar horse country!

Rood and Riddle (who we use) also has a good podiatry department, which may be an option to get her back on track.

Don't hesitate- call them.

The farriers I've used in Washington have never pared the sole or frog but the hooves have always stayed nicely concave and resonant all on their own so I don't think it was needed. They both picked out each hoof and examined it before making that determination and proceeded to carefully trim the entire hoof and balance everything. The hoof is put down and examined on the ground before final adjustments are made and then the matching hoof is done and both are examined as a pair. When all four are done we both look them over and make sure we agree they're correct.

The more experience the farrier has the less time they have to spend to make sure it's right, but they should still check!

Leia

 

[Miniv]

I knew it was totally wrong. I've had fast farriers in the past, but they did at least consider what they were doing, this guy just hacked off some length without considering the consequences. He did take off about the same amount all the way around. Just nipped it all off, rasped the edges a bit and that was it.

I will ask the vet what he suggests as far as Bute vs. Banamine, I've used both in the past, but of course prefer Banamine when possible.

The vet is coming around 2-3 this afternoon, until then she has all 4 feet wrapped, and is standing in her deeply bedded stall with a little Banamine in her. She was at least standing and bright eyed when I went out this morning.

Here are a few pics.

As you can see, her hoof wall does not touch the ground, she is walking on her sole. All of her feet are like this.

This is what really bothers me, there is no excuse for this chunk to be missing.

I don't know how well you can see, but my finger is actually underneath her hoof wall in that missing chunk. Her hoof does not touch my finger at all.

This is the worst frog. As you can see, it has not been touched, nor have the dead parts of the sole. You cannot see just how crooked that frog has grown, or the fact that it is longer than anything else.

This just shows how her sole is convex.

Again, all of your help is very much appreciated. I'll update when the vet leaves.

I don't do our own horses' feet, but Larry often does and we work on ANGLE to the hoof. Locita's hoof angle is BAD. Carving out the interior is also a must. YOU NEED A NEW FARRIER.

If she doesn't get some heel taken off AND the frog carved out she could go lame! Personally, I'd be BOILING MAD for a trim job like that.

 

[jleonard]

Well the farrier just left and Locita and I are feeling much better.

She walked out of the stall better than she did this morning, so the Banamine definitely did the job. When he first looked at her he said she looked like she had some rotation, but after examining her decided that it wasn't bad. He got out his tools and was able to file/ cut her sole down so that it is now level and in line with the hoof wall. It is still on the ground, but it is no longer convex and the weight is better distributed. He also rounded out and beveled her toe so that she is breaking over better. Her feet are now pointing in the correct direction (forward!) rather than out to the sides. She was walking much better by the time he was done, and her feet look 100% better. Because she was showing improvement after the Banamine and again after he worked on her, he did not feel that she warranted x-rays at this time. He did not think that the sole looking the way it did was caused by rotation.

He recommended leaving her in for the next few days and was happy with the depth of her stall. He also said to keep up the Banamine for 5 days and let him know how she's doing on Monday.

He was shocked when I told him who trimmed her. He said that this guy usually does very good work and works on some high calibre horses. He also said that with a horse who has a history of being sore, what the farrier did was completely out of line. I don't know if the farrier was just in a hurry, having a bad day, or just can't be bothered with minis, but regardless he will not be back.

I also noticed when turning my Welsh 2 yr old filly out that she is landing on the outside of one hind hoof then having to rotate down onto the inside. I'm furious about that as well as she is too nice of a filly to be ruined by something like this. The vet showed me how to rasp them down, so I think I'll go out and try to get her level on that foot too.