At the dentist

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

My little stallion got to visit the dentist today. He was such a good boy, barely flinched. She said he has an odd mouth so ends up getting a wave on the inside of the teeth rather than the back. At least i think thats what she said! Hopefully now he will stop dunking hay in his water bucket cause its really annoying having to put several buckets in cause he fills them with hay!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I've had some with a "wave in the arcade"--I wonder if that is the same thing??

Here is one of mine a couple of years ago. I keep forgetting to take pictures of recent visits.

 

[chandab]

I know some find it helpful and necessary, but the speculum just looks barbaric and if vet/dentist gets carried away opening up for a looksee, you can injure the TMJ. I love my equine dentist, she due out in a couple weeks; no speculum except for really bad cases and all hand tools.

She removed this ramp and fractured tooth with hand tools and no speculum from my tiny 31" stallion:

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

Each to their own.

 

[AngC]

Each to their own.

All righty then... you people just confused me. I thought it was a "good" thing to have their teeth floated. ???

I didn't do it this year for ours (primarily because, the two girls had such a reaction to the sedatives.) I didn't even think to take photos when it was done last year. I don't know what TMJ is, as mentioned by chandab.

The whole process was rather gruesome; bearing in mind that I'm squeamish... They were fitted with some metal thing similar to what is displayed in the photos. ...and had the supporting straps up on our barn rafters. I know I have to have this done next year, at a minimum, I guess???? But I swear it broke my hear to see Nicky with his tongue protruding like that. eeby-jeeby!

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

All righty then... you people just confused me. I thought it was a "good" thing to have their teeth floated. ???

I didn't do it this year for ours (primarily because, the two girls had such a reaction to the sedatives.) I didn't even think to take photos when it was done last year. I don't know what TMJ is, as mentioned by chandab.

The whole process was rather gruesome; bearing in mind that I'm squeamish... They were fitted with some metal thing similar to what is displayed in the photos. ...and had the supporting straps up on our barn rafters. I know I have to have this done next year, at a minimum, I guess???? But I swear it broke my hear to see Nicky with his tongue protruding like that. eeby-jeeby!

I believe it is a necessary evil and when done correctly enables the teeth to be done more efficiently. I have had one done without a speculum before and had to get an EDT (equine dentist) out again a month later because he was still having issues. Not all horses will hold their mouth open, so what do we do with those? Castration is not pretty but it is also a necessary evil. I know my horses teeth have been done properly and i was there the whole time keeping an eye on him, and i have noticed already the vast difference in his chewing/eating so i know its been worth the "torture"

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

It is safer for everyone to have the proper restraint and sedative. I couldn't imagine having a tooth ripped out of my own skull without some happy juice, why should I expect my horse?

I have a hard time understanding how a dentist could properly float teeth without it without ripping up the guns?

 

[chandab]

Floating is something that all horses need during their lifetime, some more than others. Just make sure you fine a well qualified equine dentist or vet to do it. [Not all vets are well qualified to do dental work, unless they took the time for extra training in that area.] Not all horses or proceedures require a speculum to get the job done right. Not all horses require sedation for basic floats, of course for extractions you'll likely need sedation. Since only the surface is floated, the gums should not be affected by a proper floating job, unless the horse has some serious issues going on. I've not experience electric floats, but I would guess that if they are used, the horse will likely need sedation and the speculum to use them safely.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

No sedation required, and its actually less harm to the horse because there is less movement required and no chance of the mouth and gums being hit by the momentum of the handler. There is always the danger of over doing it, but that is a danger with all rasping. As said, a good qualified dentist will know what to do (this is the countries only QUALIFIED dental practice, they are also all vets.)

 

[Marsha Cassada]

The dentist I use does administer a slight sedation. The appliance only holds the mouth open enough for her to get her hand in. She uses a small, electric Dremel-type tool. I have had my horses done by vets with floats and power tools. This dentist is the absolute best. No nicking of gums, no head trauma. While the horse is sedated, the assistant who is a certified tech, can clean sheaths and do other maintenance things if the owner requests.

I do not see how the very back teeth can be dealt with without the speculum. No way can anyone poke his whole arm in a horse's mouth and operate a tool without the horse trying to close his mouth. From my experience, I doubt a vet who does not use the speculum can treat the teeth at the very back.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

I agree.

 

[MajorClementine]

What a good boy you have! Handsome too. It's good to see people keeping up on their minis teeth. Horses in general get overlooked in the dental area a lot. Speculum or no, sedation or no, equine dentist or qualified vet, it's all up to you. But my theory is, as long as you are being pro-active in caring for you're hoses teeth you are doing the right thing

Oh, and I hope it stops him dunking his hay. I have a cronic dunker. Teeth are fine. He just likes soggy hay. I need to build him a hay steamer for the winter...

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

He hasn't done it since

 

[Jean_B]

Have been using a certified equine dentist for my horses for over 20 years and have NEVER had a horse sedated. All of the certified dentists I know of use a speculum and know how to use it.

 

[AngC]

I'm a bad human being; I didn't have the teeth of our three floated this past spring, when due. ...mostly because I just didn't have it in me.

I have some comments....
-- I don't think equine dentists grow on trees; I found one that sometimes visits our area; she only does group clinic type things, and at the time I checked it out it was hugely expensive, even were she to deign to visit our property without the requisite number of horses for her to treat. So I have used the vets from the vet hospital.
-- I have no issues regarding the speculum use; I recognize it as a necessary evil that I don't like to look at. I agree that one should immobilize the horse as best as possible before the grinding equipment is put to use.

I love these topics though, because they prod my senile old brain. At the time I felt like we had a so-so outcome from the teeth float. Nicky had no noticeable reaction to the sedatives; Coco (my rock) spent a day or so not eating (not her style) and hanging her head down at the ground; and Baby who had never ever stopped eating, went into massive "scare the tick out of me" super-duper laminitis mode. I had her in the extra stall and was begging her to eat little grass bits that I picked for her. My husband was out of town (with the only truck with a hitch) and I was really scared.

Anyway, I poked around in all those receipts I've been shoving in the file folder; it made me remember some things.

Baby had a mild case of laminitis in mid-January last year. Then I had the fecal samples done on all three; somewhere in there I smacked Nicky with 5-day panacur; the two girls only required one dose. This was before tooth filing.

When their teeth were floated in mid-March, the same day, all received the shots required for horses that aren't around other horses, plus tetanus, plus rabies (which I asked for; not routinely administered in this area.) Baby wouldn't go down; the vet gave her dormosedan (same as Nicky and Coco) but they gave Baby more--about 3X more (Nicky and Coco weighed more); then they gave Baby torbugesic. Finally she was sedated; more or less.

I can't see not giving the horse the sedative. Our horses aren't that large, but they're strong; I'm too small to "sit" on them and smash them into submission. My husband fares better because he's stronger. But still if you're going to have the speculum arrangement and start grinding with a drill, I can't see any other option besides a sedative. I'm going to have it done next year; but I'm not going to try to have everything done at once (vaccines, sedative, toothie grinding stress, etc.) And I am also going to ask more questions about the sedatives.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

I have had many horses done with a speculum, various sizes ages and temperament (one was themost terrified horse i knew in my life, literally jumped out of her skin at her own shadow once) and none needed sedation at all. I think you just need to take the time with them. I think sedation makes them worse in some cases because they feel "woosy" so panic more because they don't like the feeling of not feeling right in the head. My boy walked back a few times and did stop when he touched the wall but that was the only reaction he had to it. My old thoroughbred would see it coming, and go to sleep lol I don't think you should sedate as per rule, its always better to try without chemicals first.

 

[Max's Mom]

Interesting topic!

I have never heard of someone not using a speculum. I have a hard time imagining how one could do a thorough job without one.

I can see why some people are concerned about sedation. There is always an element of risk (albeit small, I think) of a bad reaction. It might be because I get very anxious having dental work done on myself, but I cannot help but think that it must be extremely stressful for almost all horses, even ones who stand compliantly. I remember reading something in Equus about a study that measured the stress reaction to clipping (I think it was done through measuring hormone levels in the blood?) It showed that clipping is every stressful even if the horse shows no outward reaction. My thinking has been that sedation helps to reduce the stress on the horse during a scary procedure. I wonder if this is true or not... maybe I'll do some research.

At any rate, my horse would be next to impossible to do safely and thoroughly without some chemical help. It is the only thing he's ever been sedated for- he's fine for other vet and farrier work. But teeth- no. I guess he takes after me! And unlike me, he cannot understand why the work has to be done! I bet he is still stressed, but it is a lot better than having multiple people holding him down by force. That must be a horse's worst nightmare.

 

[paintponylvr]

Rocklone - I was going to ask if it did stop the hay-dunking but you answered that.

You don't necessarily have to have them done EVERY year. But it sure doesn't hurt to have them checked out. Then again, your vet may check your horse and say - there may be an issue - we need to re-check/possibly do ANOTHER float in 3-6 months.

And some vets have different opinions as to how often they need to be done and whether or not a horse needs to be sedated. A good vet will base both on the horse AND the horses' owner and how they both re-act and interact w/ one another. YES, hopefully there is a vet tech with the vet to help do the job, but I've still seen owners off to the side so upset that it upsets their pet - a lot.

A sedative can reduce that interaction as well as making "an ugly procedure" more pleasant. Some mini's take a lot more sedative to be effective than full size horses do. A horse receiving "outside" stimulus such as an overwrought owner OR construction work next door, will also take more sedative because they "fight" it... And some horses/vets/owners simply don't need/want the sedative.

************

Several of my experiences -

When I had a hoof abcess treated on our first Shetland stallion, the vet gave him two doses of sedative - no affect. I can't read the receipt anymore to tell you how much of two different products he gave him - it was in 1995. BEFORE he'd do another, he had me sign a pretty extensive waiver as he couldn't guarantee that he'd EVER WAKE back up from it. He exclaimed that "AJ" took more than one of the Bison down the road (several times AJ's size). Surprise - he went down suddenly and was out just long enough for the procedure and then was AWAKE - none of that "out of it" period that most go thru when waking up from a sedative. Surprisingly, each consecutive year after that, he required less sedative each time to make him "sleepy" for any procedure - to include stitches in his pastern, exam to check his broken hip, teeth floats...

In 2000, our Hackney pony mare just seemed off. Not chewing sideways, not acting painful - but just "off". She had lost weight and we hadn't entered summer yet. The vet looked her over, listened to what I had to say and checked her out. Did TPR, checked gut sounds, checked legs for lameness. Wasn't finding anything. Asked when we'd last floated her and it hadn't yet been a year... But she got out the speculum and the mare had a broken, partial molar in her rear right lower jaw. The vet is feeling around and suddenly, in surprise, says - "OMG - the other 1/2 is embedded in her cheek and scar tissue has OVERGROWN it!!" We didn't have to do a "float" per say - but both halves of that broken tooth were removed - and it did require sedative (I wouldn't have allowed it w/o it) and some work as well as healing time after the procedure.

I've had 4 shetland ponies (plus had the teeth done on boarder's mini) teeth done w/o sedatives this year and 6 done with. 2 of them, imo, needed to have it. Both mares were older, both had had their teeth done in the past but this was a new practice/vet for us, neither behaved badly or moved about BUT he also didn't use a speculum. Personally, I don't like seeing all the blood that followed the/his procedure & I'm not squeamish in any way, shape or form (a later exam showed that he'd missed the teeth several times and their rear gums were "hamburger"). It would have been easier on these two older mares (23 & 24 yrs old) if they'd had at least a speculum to hold their mouths open for easier access and I plan on having them sedated next time as well (by a different vet - tho in same practice). Both girls went off feed for over a month - while I treated their mouths to epsom salt rinses daily - before they healed and ate right. Neither was eating badly before floating.

My old vet, the one whom I worked with for 7 years, now uses power tools to do floats. She's done in minutes! It's AWESOME. She has done extra courses for dental work over the years. The ponies have always done well for her and I've been happy (with dental work). We had several that off and on were done every 6 months due to issues that changed w/ seasons, hay & feed... ON the other hand, we've checked some and I've gladly skipped them that year! Currently, work w/ 3 different vet practices to get our pony's teeth taken care of.

I've never met an equine dentist... And here in NC, they have to be licensed as a vet before they can perform any kind of dental procedures that require/need sedation.

 

[paintponylvr]

Over the years, I've found that my ponies don't do well when we combine a lot of sedatives w/ vaccines. I try not to do teeth floats at the same time as one is getting a Rabies vaccine. Every year for the past 6 years, I've had more and more reactions to Rabies Vaccines, which I don't have given at the same time as any other vaccine.

I no longer do the "Combo" shots and actually very rarely give the Rhino/flu shots (the show ponies going out to shows or to events, get them but not the whole herd).

Last year, none of our ponies/horses older than 15 yrs of age got Rabies vaccine. Of the 18 younger ponies that got RV (three different farm visits, several different vaccine lots) - 15 of them developed severe reactions - of those, 9 were put on pain killers and had to have abscesses hot packed and 5 were on antibiotics for abscesses that DID NOT reduce w/i a week. One had to have a neck abscess drained (now that is ICKY!!).

Guess what? Rabies is not required for equine at this time. And none will be getting them in 2015!

 

[paintponylvr]

SORRY - the neck abscess was not in 2014, but in 2013!