ASPC/AMHR Member/Non-Member/Transfer Fee's

[Karen S]

Kay,

I didn't see anywhere in our By-laws that says the "Journal" is part of the membership dues. I'm going to type below the old work order form so you can compare it to the current one from the club's website:

1996-2007, What I have copies of:

Membership-(Current Membership required for Registry Work)

Annual membership Dues (First class Mailing of Journal Available @Additional Charge)......$45.00

Membership and Judge's Fee (After 3/1 of Current Year a $100 late fee applied).......$65.00

Membership and Steward's Fee (After 3/1 of Current Year a $100 late fee applied)....$65.00

Membership, Judges and Steward combination (After 3/1 of Current Year a $100 late fee applied)...$75.00

Second Member in Household (No Publication or Rule Book)........$15.00

Youth Membership (Under 18) (Membership Only) Birthday_____/_____/______.......$10.00

Amateur Card (Current Membership Required)........$5.00

Registration Fees (Shetland Pony or Miniature Horse) *All animals 1 yr old on Jan 1

Mares:

Weanlings.........$20.00

Yearlings.......$30.00

Two-Year Old.....$45.00

Three-Year Old (No age limit on Miniatures) (Shetlands must be registered by 12/31 of 3rd year)....$60.00

Hardship (3 years and older) (Miniature Horse Only)........$500.00

Stallions:

Weanlings.....$20.00

Yearlings......$30.00

Two-Year Old.....$45.00

Three-Year Old (No age limit on Miniatures) (Shetland must be registered by 12/31 of 3rd year).....$60.00

Hardship (3 years and older) (Miniature Horse Only)....$1000.00

Geldings-(All Ages) (Shetlands must be registered by 12/31 of 3rd yr).....$20.00

Hardship (3 years and older) (Miniature Horse Only)......$100.00

American Show Pony (Any Age or Sex).....$25.00

Foundation Classic Pony Pedigree Certification (Per Animal)....$10.00

Horses Registered from AMHA (Additional Per Horse).....$50.00

Transfer of Ownership-ALL BREEDS up to 6 months......$15.00.....After 6 months......$25.00

Most of the rest of the work order form is pretty close to the same with the exception of buying your prefix/suffix

Note: Journal Subscription Only..(First Class mailing available at additional charge)....$30.00...Note still same price on current work order form.

Just to help you see where the current prices are against what were the prices.

Karen

 

[kaykay]

HI Karen

first I want to thank you for doing all this research

Heres what I found in the bylaws which is vague but I would think it means journal as that is our current "publication"

Unless otherwise specified in these Bylaws or the Articles

of Incorporation, all notices to be given by the Corporation may

be given in any magazine or regularly issued publication.

Then I read this on youth so Im confused

Youth membership is offered at no charge as

established by the Board of Directors. Yearly renewal

will be required and a Youth must have a one time

sponsor at the time of his/her original application.

Such a member shall not be entitled to vote or hold

office and the word “Youth” shall appear on any

membership card evidencing Youth Membership. This

will be effective December 1, 2007 for the 2008

membership year.

I have to get off here and get to work LOL but I will check in later

Kay

 

[~Lisa~]

While discussion is great until this conversation can really make sense one needs to know how much would truly be saved by not sending the journal and by seperating the two things.

Will prices have to go up in other parts of the registry to make up the difference? IF that is the case is that truly what we want to be done?

Would it change the advertising ratio in the Journal and how much revenue would be lost to the magazine and again is that truly worth 15 dollars?

Lastly one has to really ask (I agree times are tough) but truly would that 15 dollars really be the difference to someone who is breeding, owning, selling to make the decision on if they continue to be a member or not?

We can all say we want to pay less well DUH who doesnt but there has to be some research done on the long term price we would all have to pay out to save that 15 dollars and I personally feel it would end up costing us more in the long run.

 

[ahrobertspony]

I absolutely appreciate it when information that no one really knows for sure or understands is presented as fact.

FIRST ... back when the magazine was made a part of the membership in 1993, there were two basic reasons. 1) Generating revenue and 2) requirements about some types of notifications on some registry business. Yes, today, some things could be on the website. HOWEVER, it is still mandated that some things be mailed out for notification. It is probably CHEAPER to include that in the magazine. Here's why ... any letter or newsletter that goes out would have 1) production or duplication costs and 2) MORE IMPORTANTLY ... mailing costs. Newsletters and letters of that nature WILL mail at first class cost. However, Journal postage is less. Journal postage is complicated because of the 60:40 ratio that I've explained before and no one still gets so I won't go into it. Plus, it streamlines management of the database.

SECOND ... rates have increased? REALLY? Rates changes in the last year have been incredibly minor ... to business cards, to spot color add-on and to some prep related items ... maybe about 2% of all rates ... if that

THIRD ... yes, the magazine is expensive to print & produce. However, it wasn't THE JOURNAL that precipitated the rates increase. Let me give you a little history. The combination was passed at the 1993 convention. The combination ... 1st membership in household & magazine ... was set at $45. It remained at that level from fall of 1993 'til fall of 2007. At that initial passage, $25 of every $45 first membership was to go toward The Journal. However, as a subsidiary of a not-for-profit, that's NOT actually the way it worked. The Journal only gets enough from the membership fees to cover the balance of what the advertising doesn't cover. The last I knew, AT NO TIME SINCE THE COMBO PASSED HAS THE JOURNAL RECEIVED THE FULL $25 per MEMBERSHIP. The extra money of the new membership fees covers general costs. There are two items specifically that have been extremely expensive for us in the last few years but that's not my position to say what.

FOURTH .. better/more editorial ... me too ... I'd love to have it. You have NO idea what we have to cut out on a regular basis. Because of the 60:40 ratio and mailing considerations PLUS both cost efficiencies and general production management, that a ratio we have to stick to regardless of the other funding. Bottom line ... everyone who wants more & better editorial should advertise.

 

[Lmequine]

Thanks for the verification Amy!

 

[Minimor]

If you will go pull you a copy of the current work order form, you will see that I didn't disturb anything regarding the Canadian fee's or the current transfer fee's. The only fee's I incorporated were the Non-Member fee's.

I know, but my point was, the transfer fees haven't been touched....YET. But what happens if the reduced membership fees result in a large loss of revenue, then will the registry raise other fees (transfer fees, registration fees) to make up the shortfall? I'm saying that I do not want to see membership fees reduced if it will mean that in the long run other fees must take a jump. I simply would like to see a non-member fee introduced as an extra choice for people.
Actually the lack of mention of the Canadian fee is also a problem. If US member fees are reduced then the Canadians will need to be offered the same reduction. If there are US members who wish to be members and not receive the Journal, surely there will be Canadian members who would like to pay a lower fee and not receive the Journal. I don't believe that you could offer different fees to one and not to the other.

Go back and take a look at the other associations very closely and look at their Non-Member fee's.

I'm well aware of what some other organizations charge for non-member fees. As others have noted on other threads, ASPC/AMHR are not the "other" registries and do not necessarily match with what those other registries are doing, or in this case....charging.

If a person was to purchase a Miniature or Shetland and DIDN'T want to bother with joining the Registry, but wanted to put that horse in their name, then they have an avenue to do so for a very small price.

I'm not sure if a $50 transfer fee for non-members counts as 'very small' though of course it is somewhat less than the $65 + $15 it currently costs. I suspect that even at $50 most of these buyers would not bother to transfer the papers on their new pets. I would not count on these non-member transfers to make up the losses created by the offering of a reduced membership fee.

 

[Karen S]

Hi Minimor,

The fee's where MY recommendations, not something that will be set in stone. It's was to be a guideline as to what COULD you live with? If eveyone wanted lower fee's for transfer for a non-member than what I gave as a guideline, then the Board will be the only one that can set those fee's. I can't say what will or will not take place on anything with the Canadian fee's aw well.

Karen

 

[Lewella]

I absolutely appreciate it when information that no one really knows for sure or understands is presented as fact.
FIRST ... back when the magazine was made a part of the membership in 1993, there were two basic reasons. 1) Generating revenue and 2) requirements about some types of notifications on some registry business. Yes, today, some things could be on the website. HOWEVER, it is still mandated that some things be mailed out for notification. It is probably CHEAPER to include that in the magazine. Here's why ... any letter or newsletter that goes out would have 1) production or duplication costs and 2) MORE IMPORTANTLY ... mailing costs. Newsletters and letters of that nature WILL mail at first class cost. However, Journal postage is less. Journal postage is complicated because of the 60:40 ratio that I've explained before and no one still gets so I won't go into it. Plus, it streamlines management of the database.

I'm going to expand a little bit on this portion of Amy's' post - Where she uses mandated she does not mean mandated by our bylaws but by the laws of the State of Illinios which govern how a not-for-profit communicates with its membership.

As I've said before, I do not personally believe from my experience in the printing industry and office management that doing a separate mailing of this mandated information would result in cost savings to our membership. To the contrary I believe it would result in an increased cost to our membership.

 

[Lmequine]

Good point. We all forget that the ASPC/AMHR is a not-for-profit organization and has to answer to rules and laws above our own association "rules".

 

[kaykay]

HI Amy

Not sure if your post is directed at me but I have been running our 2 page ad for 2 years now. The rate for this year is higher then it was last year and I was told it was a rate increase for 2009. I dont have the exact figure - but Im thinking it went up 20.00 or 10.00 per page which is not at all a huge increase but is still more then 2008. If this info is wrong I dont know what to say except this is what I was told by the office staff

But for sure like I said its still very doable especially if people get together with other farms.

Kay

 

[~Lisa~]

I'm going to expand a little bit on this portion of Amy's' post - Where she uses mandated she does not mean mandated by our bylaws but by the laws of the State of Illinios which govern how a not-for-profit communicates with its membership.

Wow Lewella thanks.. I have heard Amy explain that several times at Convention and chalk it up to being tired or well who knows but somehow I have always missed that VERY KEY INFORMATION- I can not believe I never even thought of that before or that after having it explained at length by Amy I still didnt hear that very important part.

I always assumed she meant mandated by our registry and it really never made sense to me as to why we can not just change it to be able to put in more articles and stuff well a huge DUH for me

Now a lightbulb went off and I finally get it so thank you so much!