Are they ponies?? or miniatures??

[Miniv]

Actually you have to say it like this: PONEEE....PONEEE....PONEEE !!!

I tend to call our under 34's 'miniature horses" and our ASPC/AMHR ones "miniature ponies" just to help explain the different breeding programs we have here.

Oh, and guess what? Even Falabellas have Shetland blood in them. Senor Falabella's daughter admitted not too long ago that her father did import some Shetlands to cross with the native mountain PONIES while he was creating the breed. It was the native mountain ponies that must have brought in so much appy coloring to the Falabellas.

I also agree with Kay. I don't care what people call them as long as they don't call them stupid, ugly, or boring!

MA

 

[Buckskin gal]

I think for people who know the "ponies" of today there is not a problem of their minis being called ponies. Time and time again I have experienced the comments from people who don't know the ponies of today to ask if the miniature horses are like Shetlands in disposition. When I ask them what they mean they say they have known Shetlands to be like spoiled brats, ornery or some other negative term. For those of us that have been around awhile I think we understand what they are saying because many shetlands of years back [don't know what they are like today because I haven't been around enough of them to know] were noted to have poor dispositions. Now whether this was because of their lack of training or their nature they were noted to be that way and I do believe they came to have a bad reputation. Of course those who have seen the Shetalnd as having had poor dispositions, they don't want their minis to be in that catagory of dispositions so they want them to be known only as miniatures. And I will say, for myself, that the miniatures we have of today are nothing like the shetland ponies our kids had when they were young. All the hackney blood that is in Shetlands today give them more of a spirited disposition. I am sure there are differnt opinions, this just happens to be mine. Mary

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Without reading others responses...

bottom line is MINIATURES are NOT a blood breed it is a HEIGHT only breed and any horse now can be hardshipped in to AMHA and TO AMHR(untill 6 months ago) no matter what breed as long as it fit the height requirments therefore.. i dont understand why people get all up in arms about them being any different then any other horse or pony out there other then the height.

Bottom line is a miniature is a horse of ANY breed that can fit into the 38 and under height catagory no different then the term PONY is ANY horse of ANY breed that fits into the 14.2 or under height catagory. Which makes ANY AND ALL miniatures PONIES since they are all UNDER 14.2

It is something i just sort of chuckle at when i see people getting all upset over and stating minis are a breed. When both registries are closed perhaps then it is a start to making it a breed but as of now nope nothing but height makes a mini and a pony and you cant be one without the other

as far as the disposition well i think there are plenty of minis out there today with horrible manners and kinda beastly ask any vet or farrier out here and they will tell you they deal with them all the time in fact i am told over and over again by vets, farriers ect locally that they rarely see minis that are well mannered and handled enough to be so.

I think the that just goes with them being tossed in a pasture or yard and not worked with no matter what the size

 

[shminifancier]

. Which makes ANY AND ALL miniatures PONIES since they are all UNDER 14.2

I agree 110% And Knowing this,, I still don't understand why calling minis,, ponies is such a sore spot with Just a Few people~! Darn

 

[Buckskin gal]

Lisa, I am sure sorry to hear there are so many minis that are beastly, in your area. It was the mild mannerism of the minis in our area and areas we visited that endeared us to them. I wonder if there aren't some breeders in your area that need to improve on dispositions if they are getting a bad reputation by those who deal with them. Not knowing for sure why your area would have the problem of beastly minis I couldn't say what the cause is but we sure haven't seen that here. Our experience has been if they have the early exposure to being imprinted by the breeers they are very sweet natured. Guess we have been very lucky in getting good dispositions in our minis and I have never heard a vet or farrier here describe a mini as beastly...they always comment on how good natured they are. Sure hope better dispositions are strived for by all.

Without reading others responses...bottom line is MINIATURES are NOT a  blood breed it is a HEIGHT only breed and any  horse now can be hardshipped in to AMHA and TO AMHR(untill 6 months ago) no matter what breed as long as it fit the height requirments therefore.. i dont understand why people get all up in arms about them being any different then any other horse or pony out there other then the height.

Bottom line is a miniature is a horse of ANY breed that can fit into the 38 and under height catagory no different then the term PONY is ANY horse of ANY breed that fits into the 14.2 or under height catagory. Which makes ANY AND ALL miniatures PONIES since they are all UNDER 14.2

It is something i just sort of chuckle at when i see people getting all upset over and stating minis are a breed. When both registries are closed perhaps then it is a start to making it a breed but as of now nope nothing but height makes a mini and a pony and you cant be one without the other

as far as the disposition well i think there are plenty of minis out there today with  horrible manners and kinda beastly ask any vet or farrier out here and they will tell you they deal with them all the time in fact i am told over and over again by vets, farriers ect locally that they rarely see minis that are well mannered and handled enough to be so.

I think the that just goes with them being tossed in a pasture or yard and not worked with no matter what the size

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[rabbitsfizz]

I have bred Shetlands, proper , Thelwell, Shetlands, (against my better judgement I might add

) As soon as I got the chance I moved to Miniature Horses There is much more selection of Ponies over here, obviously, our Show Ponies are beautiful elegant little creatures ranging form 10.2hh- 15.00hh, all quality riding animals, I wish I could breed one of these creature at 32"!!! Their pedigree goes back over fifty years now so they are almost a breed. I have NO desire to breed Ponies, been there done that, my horses do not look a lot like Ponies - I have spent the last 25 years making sure of that. Perhaps, with no real Pony heritage, it does not matter to you, but, I assure you, over here it MATTERS, to the extent that one of the Judges instructions is to penalise "pony" characteristics.

Falabellas are descended, straightforwardly, from Shetland Island Shetlands, there is no need to rely on the Falabella family, I have seen the original export documents. Small ponies were not bred anywhere except Shetland, (and of course Scotland and then all the mainland England) all European tiny ponies are bred from or represented as Shetland Ponies (The Spotted (Appy) ponies were bred down from Shetland Ponies and bigger Spots.)

 

[hobbyhorse23]

All our boys are "ponies," from 15.2h on down. As several of you have said it's an endearment to imply that they are cute and cuddly and harmless when two of them have spent years pretending to be fire-breathing Ay-Rabs.

And to me, that's what a pony is. It's cute! It's cuddly! It's the thing you trust to take care of your kids! I really wonder sometimes where all these "obstinant, ornery, mean little ponies" you all ran into must be hiding; the only ones I knew were complete little gems who would sooner hurt themselves then a child. "Pony" is a compliment, coming from that background.

I'm kinda funny that way- I used to love Shetlands because they were so adorable and sweet and sensible, and now I see the so-called IMPROVED Shetlands heading for the ring at the AMHR shows and I find myself shuddering. No leg density whatsoever, rolling eyes, look like hyper little deer with no room for brains in their heads. No thank you! ::shudders:: And yes, that is my own stereotype and I know that. I have seen some of the more modern Shetlands that I still would love to find in my own barn, but they're well-built for a horse of any size and were lovely little creatures. Generally speaking I want either a big horse with big horse proportions or a true mini that can manage to be both elegant and cuddly and is smarter than your average engineer.

Those in-between ones just don't get me. If I want something that is bigger than about 36" or so, I'll go buy a lovely Welsh or full-sized Shetland. If I want a mini, I want something 34" or under and will accept the resultant loss of ground-covering ability. Anyway, that's a whole 'nother subject there. I like the B's, don't get me wrong! And even though I prefer under 34", I show AMHR just about exclusively. So I'm not an "A snob," I swear.

Pony or mini, it makes no real difference to me. If people ask if my mini is a pony, I smile and say "Actually, he's an American Miniature Horse. That means he's as big as he's going to get at 33.25" and we love him that way." It seems to make the listener feel like they just saw something rare and fancy instead of "just a pony."

There are some SPECTACULAR ponies out there (of a lot more breeds than Shetland) and I would NEVER be ashamed to be compared to them. As Susanne said- a good horse is a good horse is a good horse!

Leia

 

[jlh]

I sincerely and respectfully disagree that registered American Miniatures with pedigrees going back dozens of generations are not different from any grade animal under a meter tall.

I've spent a decade and a half working on toward improving and proving a breed of horse, just the same as the more foresighted breeders of Quarter horses, Thoroghbreds, Missouri Foxtrotters and Paints have done over the years - and that does include outcrossing to set desired characteristics in the breed - and I know many people who have worked at this far longer.

Yes, its a "man-made" breed, but all breeds of horses are, up to and including the Caspians and Arabians.

I feel that hardshipping to allow for these two things, 1. desirable out-crosses and 2. paperwork issues, does not disqualify our chosen breed of horse from being recognized as less of a breed that either the aforementioned breeds, or any of the other dozens (if not hundreds) of breeds of horse listed in any reference on horse breeds.

I strongly feel that to continue to call this breed, which annually registers among the top ten breeds in the country, nothing but a "height-breed" is making little of both the serious longterm breeder and all those who have given so much time and effort into promoting the breed in shows and sport, and can only lead to devaluing all our efforts.

As far as choosing to define a breed as exhibiting a given set of characteristics, we are more and more being recognized as "different" from a grade pony by even the most casual observer, and the range of phenotype within the registries, meeting the breed standard varies not much more than is seen in the genetic drift of more common breeds mentioned above. They too have trends and types come in and out of fashion as one horse type proves to excel at a show, etc.

I'm not here to flame anyone else's opinion, I just want some to understand that this is my opinion on the subject, and it is does differ from what I so often hear.

 

[_minihorses4ever_]

Which makes ANY AND ALL miniatures PONIES since they are all UNDER 14.2

EXACTLY. They are ponies. They come from shetland lines, and I am proud of it. There are TONS of BEAUTIFUL shetlands out there, that come from those SAME orignal lines as the mini.

They are a height registry. And I am almost glad AMHR closed thier hardshipping, so only minis with actual lines come in. So maybe, just maybe one day , they will be more of a "conformation" breed than a height. BUt I want AMHA to keep its hardshipping, so those smaller miniatures, can be registered. So that way you are almost making an actual breed, not a height.

Now, if I catch someone saying "Oh, look at the pony!" I am not going to pounce on them. But, if they ask me "What breed is this?"Or soemthing along the lines of that, I will tell it is a miniature horse.

So overall, I have no problem with them being called ponies. But, if they ask to broaden their knowledge, I will say it is a miniature horse.

 

[shminifancier]

Not until there is ONE or 2 Registries (Preferably One and One only),will the Miniatures ever become a recognized Breed~! There are Well over 20 Registries for this HEIGHT oriented group of small equines... Until this the miniature horse and or ponies will be a Height and only a height recognized animal and not under any circumstances will become a breed...IMO As all the animals Must maintain a certain Height. and Nothing else pertains to the different animals there will be NO Miniature Horse Breed as compared with Other breeds of horses..Like.Arabians,,and others etc....

 

[Relic]

Many people raising ponies would also mind if their ponies were refered to as miniatures l've asked and gotten blasted for it more then once seems they don't want to be in the same useless boat as the miniatures. ln fact the R mini people get on their high horse

around here when their stock is refered to as a oversize miniature or oh my gosh maybe a pony and go to great lenghts to explain both the registeries to get away from the word pony. But l have no problem with calling a 28" guy a pony at home cause he thinks he's one of the big boys. We do have one who's registered named is ...Tony The Pony.

 

[capall beag]

Ha Ha, many of you are well ahead of the game that people know the difference between a pony and a horse yet alone a mini!

Most people who visit my house are not horse people and they ask me "What are they?" I don't mind what someone calls my horses except when they say they are 'useless little things' but most of the time people ask me if they are "baby horses".

The terms, horse, pony, miniature are general terms and refer to a height rather than a look to me and a non horsey person would not know this and so they may call a mini a pony etc, I would never take offense to that but when asked I tell them what makes them a mini rather than a pony!

However,

I have a Q for KayKay. I thought a mini horse was supposed to be more horse like than the pony and more refined than the "pony" but your "ponies" are extremely refined and elegant. How would you describe the difference between a mini horse and one of your ponies? Would it just be a height distinction because IMO your ponies, and others like them, look like elegant, refined horses in miniature!!!! They are beautiful!!!!!!

 

[Tara]

While we are on the subject of size can someone help me with the difference with an "A" mini or a "B" mini. What are the height spans of each. Also what classifies a drawf mini?

 

[jlh]

While we are on the subject of size can someone help me with the difference with an "A" mini or a "B" mini.  What are the height spans of each.  Also what classifies a drawf mini?

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Under the AMHR rules, there are two height divisions.

"under" or "a" is any horse not exceeding 34" at the base of the last hair of the mane.

"over" or "b" is any horse from over 34" up to but not exceeding 38" at the base of the last hair of the mane.

their permanent papers have the T at the end of their registration numbers replaced with either an "A" or a "B"

as in

AMHR - 219637B WYNN'S FOLLY LORD OBERON, a 35" gelding

or

AMHR - 213961A WYNN'S FOLLY SMOKE & MIRRORS, a 34" stallion

or

AMHR - 219635A WYNNS FOLLY BELLADUNNA, a 31.25" mare

you will often hear the term "an "A" mini to refer to a horse registered with AMHA, which "should" mean that the horse is 34" or under, to remain registered.

In the same style, an "R" horse would be registered with AMHR, and "A/R" would be one registered with both.

such as

AMHR - 53023A LITTLE ENGLAND'S LORD MALVOLIO

LITTLE ENGLAND'S LORD MALVOLIO AMHA TR I 00772, a 30" stallion with the same same but different numbers under each registry

a dwarf is any horse showing the genetic defects associated with dwarfism, whatever their pedigree. Dwarfism occurs way too often in miniatures, but also occurs in othe breeds of horses, as well (as far as I can tell) in all mammals.

 

[Tara]

Thanks for the info on size. I was a little confused but you cleared it up!

 

[Minimor]

Back on page 1 of this thread Songcatcher posted:

I think it all depends on the context of the statement. When I was a kid (a very long time ago  ), ponies were short, fat, squatty little things (of course, I know not all of them were, but that was my preception  ). I would not want my minis considered in that catagory. Miniature breeders strive for true "horse" conformation.

I see this as some of the reason that some people don't want their Minis called 'ponies'. There's also the pony's bad reputation in terms of bad manners, bad disposition...a reputation which is undeserved in my opinion. When I was a kid I had a pony (a refined little mare, 36" tall, that--had we been interested in it at the time--could have been registered as a Miniature & been an asset to the breed) that was a beautifully behaved riding & driving pony. I also rode another pony that the owner (a child my own age) couldn't do a thing with. That girl would have called her pony every bad name in the book. For me, he was a lovely ride. As I see it, he was simply smarter than his owner, & he knew it!!
Anyway, back to Songcatcher's quote--what strikes me as funny is how rabid some peole are about this "they're NOT ponies, they're Miniature horses". We have this family friend that had a couple Minis for awhile. These were not quality horses--they were stumpy little ponies, just like the pit ponies they used in the mines. They had no refinement; they weren't dwarves, but they had stumpy legs, short little necks, rotund little bodies & their movement was pure 'pony'--(not talking American Shetland here!) They were sweet little equines, but there was nothing "small horse" about them. This friend would just be frothing if someone dared call them ponies, and she'd turn red in the face as she tried to explain why they were horses & not ponies. She never had much luck convincing anyone.

We've got some real refined "small horse" type Miniatures, and we've got a "pit pony" gelding or two, and we've got a couple "Thelwell pony" geldings--all registered Miniatures, but I affectionately call them all ponies. Ice Man is off of Joe Jandt's bred down Arabian line, but there's Shetland (Rowdy) in his pedigree too. One of our mares has some Welsh pony in her (at least I believe there is--I see Welsh pony in her. Another of our mares goes back to some European breeding--I have no doubt there are some European ponies back in that pedigree.

I will visit people & refer to their Minis as ponies; so far no one has gotten mad at me for it. If someday someone throws me off their farm because I said "pony" well (shrugs) so be it. I'll know who's the grouch of the day then!!

BTW, I have a couple friends who call their Morgans "ponies"--as others here have said, it's simply a term of affection for many people.

 

[user 488]

To me if you are confident in your breeding/showing/or whatever program, what people call your horses, either pony or mini (as both are really proper) then it won't doesn't matter if they call them..........to me it wouldn't hurt me if people called my horses pigs, I would just think of them as uneducated people who don't have a clue, but I would let it pass as my horses are still the same old horses I have no matter what others call them.

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EXACTLY!

 

[Kira98]

Okay I have my one mini and if someone wants to call him a pony thats fine with me if they want to call him a miniature thats okay to cause that is what he is.

Now I have my 16+ hh paint stallion

that I call a PONY! It just depends on the mood Im in at the time

I have my 14hh purebred arabian gelding that in all rights should be considered a pony but hes a horse because hes an Arabian. but thats my "PONY"

I agree that sometimes people do get a bit bent outta shape when they call a mini a pony but most of the time they dont mean it to be rude or downgrading the Mini so to speak

Do you think that my Paint cares that I call him a PONY -NOPE just as long as I keep the grain and hay comin he could care less what I call him !

I dont want to get to into this subject as I know its a touchy one. but thats my two cents

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

I used to insist that people not call them ponies but nowadays I don't mind. They are actually ponies since they are under 14.2 hands. They also are Horses- Miniature Horses.

I've been a Falabella historian for over 13 yrs and have original documentation from Est. Falabella noting that the origin of the original breeding pool us UNKNOWN. The original group was found among wild free roaming wild horses. The family added shetlands as well as criollo and small Thoroughbreds along the way to improve breeding. They stopped outcrossing in the 1960's (having been breeding them for about 100 years up to that point) and you cannot register a horse in the Falabella Registry unless thier pedigree is all proven Falabella- height is not a consideration. Many of the 'spotted' minis in Europe today are traceable to Falabellas including one of the most well known- Melenek. Many of today's appaloosa spotted minis are traceable to a pure Falabella- Chianti. The filly in my avitar with my daughter is out of a pure Falabella mare and by an American stallion. I've had some wonderful foals by the Falabella/American crosses.

I also imported a mare from Sweden that is 33" and a loud big spotted black near leopard appy that is traceable to riding horses and Shetland ponies as well as a leopard grandsire who is in the Knabstrupper registry. I registered her (hardship) AMHR last year and plan to register her AMHA (hardship) next year at age 5. I think this mare will be an asset to our American gene pool and she would not be able to if the registries had closed and ended the hardship options. \

Tammie

 

[Tommy]

In simple terms.

A does not equal B nor B equal A but A is contained with B.

We get caught up on semantics but regardless the term is what you want to define it to be.

Besides they are all wonderful creatures tiny, small, big, and extremely large.

Tommy