Appy questions

[sundaymom]

I must say I have really enjoyed reading this topic.

Years ago I raised pintos, just for enjoyment, with only one or two foals a year. Then I decided to stop and got rid of just about all my mares except for a couple. Just when my husband was smiling a little to much, I got the wild hair to go appaloosa.

I knew nothing about them except as a young girl had one for riding and always loved them. Can't really explain why rationally (ha!), at this late stage in my life, that I decided to do it.

I can really relate to Kim, for after searching high and low for over a year and a couple of deals gone south, three years ago, I located the stallion I thought would help me the most. I could not afford the appy mares I liked and didn't want the ones I could afford. After sinking a lot into this stallion I too was told he was a gray and should get rid of him. I was blown away but at that point couldn't afford to do much else but keep him. Also, I fell in love with him and didn't want to get rid of him. I decided to breed him as I had these mares and no other stallion. Felt I had a 50/50 chance of color and later could geld him. The three fillies that came were beautiful in conformation and color. Two were outstanding in color. The prettiest black got googles at birth and I cried for I just knew she would gray out. I contacted Jennifer at Hairicane (for I always loved her horses) and though she didn't know me talked me off the ledge. I learned some appy foals have these (if for sure no gray gene) and that these usually fade and then go on to be near or full leopards. Sure enough by 3 months, no googles and she clipped out to be a near leopard.

Anyway not one gray foal. Then the gray test came out and I had GB tested and guess what....NO GRAY GENE.

Being a small breeder, after finding homes this year for the last of my pinto mares, I still wanted both the color and conformation so have brought in a solid mare to breed next year with Siera Dawn and Super Charger blood hoping for just this. I feel like if I can, even if it means bringing in a solid to breed, in order to get better conformation, that then these foals can go into a pure appy breeding program and help it.

I didn't breed last year for I was so worried about the ecconomy and didn't want to be desperate to find homes for my babies. All year I have be emailed and called about do I have any for sale...lol! So taking a leap of faith I bred for next year.

I to am an admirer of DRK and Hairicane horses.

 

[HGFarm]

Sundaymom you are not the only one I have heard that was told they had a 'gray horse' that was NOT gray!!!!! I am SURE GLAD they have a test now, so people are not selling or gelding their dream horses after being given misinformation.

One thing folks might want to remember in their 'color' programs- whether it's Appy or Pinto, you have to have a gray to get a gray, and if the parents were not grays, neither is your horse. UC Davis mentions that some horses take 6 to 8 years to completely gray out- and I have seen this- some gray within months, some take a few years, but I have NEVER heard of one taking a lifetime or longer, to gray.

The Appy roaning gene is completely different and doesnt look the same as a horse graying out.

Ohmt, my toes are still in tact, LOL

Becky do you have pics of the stallion you just got?? Would love to see him and yes, conformation is always great above color. But the color sure puts icing on the cake!

 

[drk]

Here is my most treasured mare "BLUE CHIPS FORMALATTIRE MASTERPIECE" She is 31" and SUPER REFINED with a beautiful head, Tiny Tippy Ears and she has a pedigree to die for. I wish I would have shown her in Halter before I started breeding her. Maybe after her 2011 foal I may still give it a try. I think she would do well. She is bred to Alliance Piano Man for 2011. Her sire "BLUE CHIPS ATTRACTIONS MASTERPIECE" has one of the most beautiful heads I've seen on an appy. I'm looking forward to crossing her with my Piamo Man colt from this year when he is ready and "HOPING" for some color since she is a snowcap to top off their outstanding conformation. (notice I said HOPING)...LOL

This will be a test for a solid to throw color with a snowcap... Sometimes yes, sometimes no.. As I say.. It's like opening a present so you just never know.

This is "BLUE CHIPS FORMALATTIRE MASTERPIECE"

This is her sire "BLUE CHIPS ATTRACTIONS MASTERPIECE" owned by BLUE CHIP MINIS in NC

 

[drk]

Sundaymom you are not the only one I have heard that was told they had a 'gray horse' that was NOT gray!!!!! I am SURE GLAD they have a test now, so people are not selling or gelding their dream horses after being given misinformation.

One thing folks might want to remember in their 'color' programs- whether it's Appy or Pinto, you have to have a gray to get a gray, and if the parents were not grays, neither is your horse. UC Davis mentions that some horses take 6 to 8 years to completely gray out- and I have seen this- some gray within months, some take a few years, but I have NEVER heard of one taking a lifetime or longer, to gray.

The Appy roaning gene is completely different and doesnt look the same as a horse graying out.

Ohmt, my toes are still in tact, LOL

Becky do you have pics of the stallion you just got?? Would love to see him and yes, conformation is always great above color. But the color sure puts icing on the cake!

Agreed Laurie, I am so glad we have tests to check for grey. It's very tricky to tell visually in these appy's.

 

[drk]

YES, Becky... Lets see some pictures... Can't wait to see what you have now

 

[drk]

Thanks for all the info.

I really appreciate it.

What is known about the snowflake pattern? I do know that those are generally born dark and spot more with age. But, are there any known facts about it? Are other patterns involved?

Here is a picture of the hips of my new stallion. He is developing a few more spots on his sides and back now. I'm assuming he is snowflake only?

Hey Becky, Your stallion may be working on a blanket. I don't think he is a snowflake at all. Those markings don't look like snowflake markings to me. He reminds me of a filly I had here in 2009. She had just a couple weird white markings like his on her rump when born. Today she is still marked very different and I love her. Just wanted to post her pics from birth till now for you to see how she has changed. She is out of a black leopard stallion and a near leopard mare. How old is your stallion? He may color out much more...

If you notice in this next pic you can see dark spots coming in..

 

[palsminihorses]

If you notice in this next pic you can see dark spots coming in..

Diane, that mare is just stunning!! What unusual markings she has! I love it!!

Pam

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Just thought I'd add my appy transformations:

On The Rise Farm Sky Eyes Eagle

Black near leopard/varnish/splash overoloosa

Foal:

Weanling:

Last year as a 8 year old:

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

And this is one of the colts we had born here.. He's the result of a near leopard/splash crossed on a tobiano/splash mare.

He was born solid black:

Couple months:

Weanling:

Most recent as a 2 year old, clipped he has a real roany blanket up to his withers and tiny ink spots:

 

[Becky]

So Becky, what's the next question?? Seems like we're peetering out!

Sorry guys, would have been on here earlier, but I had to take a weanling filly to the vet to have her eyelid sewn back on. Grrrrr..... Happy Halloween!!!!

Here are a couple of pictures of Indian Dreams Spectacular Royalty taken the other day. Mind you, he's hairy with a winter coat, but I think he's pretty impressive.

Diane, drk, I'm thinking he is a blanket now too, and I think he is the pattern that your black filly is, that you posted pics of. I was admiring her on your website recently and thinking Royalty has the same kind of spots she does. Instead of spots, more like streaks. So, my question is, what is that? As opposed to circular spots??

 

[drk]

Diane,

Isn't Masterpiece the mare that Ginny leased and got that gorgeous fewspot out of Piano Man?

She's gorgeous in all areas, and I can't wait to see what the repeat breeding produces! I know I'll be watching!

~~Diane at Castle Rock

Yes Diane, That is the mare Ginny got her gorgeous fewspot out of. She is now rebred to him for a 2011 foal for ME !!!! I cannot wait. Plus I miss her alot.

 

[drk]

Sorry guys, would have been on here earlier, but I had to take a weanling filly to the vet to have her eyelid sewn back on. Grrrrr..... Happy Halloween!!!!

Here are a couple of pictures of Indian Dreams Spectacular Royalty taken the other day. Mind you, he's hairy with a winter coat, but I think he's pretty impressive.

Diane, drk, I'm thinking he is a blanket now too, and I think he is the pattern that your black filly is, that you posted pics of. I was admiring her on your website recently and thinking Royalty has the same kind of spots she does. Instead of spots, more like streaks. So, my question is, what is that? As opposed to circular spots??

Becky, Trixie keeps getting more and more white coming in and it seems to be filling in around spots that are showing up. So I'm not sure where she will end up in color. And this is the first I've seen this...LOL But your boy has similar markings... And he is VERY NICE !!!!

 

[hairicane]

He is lovely Becky! I think he and Dianes black filly are the same. Just my theory here but I think the white u are seeing is what there is of a blanket right now and I bet he will end up with lots of red spots like Dianes has except her filly's spots are black. I bet one day he will have so many spots that there is not much white blanket showing and it will be spots almost all overlapping on top of each other. I wonder if they both carry lots of suppression factors since it seems like they are trying to be super loud spotted horses?

 

[ohmt]

He is lovely Becky! Like I mentioned before, his white spots are exactly like the blanketed fillies I keep getting from my few spot out of non-appy mares. They are born solid with those white spots on their rumps and then slowly it turns into a blanket or I have two that have varnished out and have huge black spots on their rumps instead of the white spots.

Your mare is stunning and I just love her piano man colt this year. Can't wait to see what she gives you next!

 

[zoey829]

I must say I have enjoyed reading this thread. I have learned so much from those who have posted here. Thanks for all the info and the beautiful pics!!

 

[HGFarm]

I agree with drk Becky... and from the angle of your pics with that stallion- it almost looks like he has a couple of darker chestnut spots hiding under that winter hair. I too think he is trying to form some type of blanket or something under there. It will be very exciting to see what he will look like in the spring shed out. Oh goodie!

Another box of chocolates!!

I also will be watching drk's mare to see what she has- that Piano Man colt is awesome. I think it would be great to cross your PM colt back to her when he is old enough and see what you get!

Lucky C, those are great examples to show the drastic changes that some horses can do with their color!

 

[Becky]

BECKY, WE NEED A NEW QUESTION!!

LOL, Diane! I'm running out of questions, but I sure am enjoying this thread and I'd like to see it keep going.

Here's a question, my new stallion that I've pictured - has the blanket and the spotting you see with a bit more coming in. He has white sclera, but no mottling and no striped feet. How does that affect (if any) his ability to pass on appy coloring? Is that unusual?

And wow, love the pictures of your snowflake mare! What a transformation!!

 

[HGFarm]

Again I dont know why, but I dont find the mottling and striped feet so obvious in some of the Minis. Some have a tiny bit of mottling that is really barely noticable, some have a LOT. Also, same thing with the striped feet and sometimes it only shows up if they are cleaned and ready for the show ring.

I would be curious if anyone else has noticed with the Minis, but do your chestnuts seem to show less mottling? Mine have! (Not with the big ones or POAs but I have noticed this with the Minis) I have not seen a lot of the chestnut Appies, but a few so dont have a LOT to compare to.

I have not really given it much of a thought though... most of them have some mottling on the genitals, maybe not so much on the face- also look inside the lips..... it may be somewhat suppressed.

 

[Sheri Hill]

I sure enjoyed all the pics, as I sure love spots too. Had and still have appy big ones and love my spotted lil ones too!

Here are some pics of mine and some of their changes.

Illusion as a foal, clipped after I got him.

Illusion now

Bred to Frosty (here is Frosty)

They had Halle (here is Halle)

as a foal

Halle now

 

[Sheri Hill]

Illusion bred to Dotty (here is Dotty)

The first was a solid black colt

then the same pairing had this filly Sky (here is Sky, she looks allot like Illusion, even has 2 blue eyes. Halle above had gotten 1 partial blue eye)

Sky as a foal

Sky now

Sky and Illusion