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StarRidgeAcres

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Below is the info off two feed bags. I'll say later what the brands are. I'd like to know what others think of the difference between the two feeds and if they are significant differences.

Feed #1:

Crude protein (min) 14%

Crude fat (min) 2.5%

Crude fiber (max) 15%

Calcium (min-max) .9-1.3%

Phosphorus (min) .4%

Copper (min) 20ppm

Selenium (min) .6ppm

Zinc (min) 100 ppm

Vitamin A (min) 3000 IU/lb

Ingredients:

Processed grain by-products, roughage products, plant protein products, molasses products, calcium carbonate, salt, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin /a supplement, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, clacium iodate, magnesium oxide, cobalt carbonate, ferrous carbonate, vitamin D3 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite. Ruminant meat and bone meal free.

Feed #2:

Crude protein (min) 14%

Crude fat (min) 6%

Crude fiber (max) 12.5%

Calcium (min-max) 1-1.3%

Phosphorus (min) .6%

Copper (min) 80ppm

Selenium (min) .6ppm

Zinc (min) 280 ppm

Vitamin A (min) 3000 IU/lb

Ingredients:

Processed grain by-products, roughage products, forage products, molasses proucts, grain products, soybean oil, calcium carbonate, plant protein products, salt, L-lysine, DL-methionine, vitamin E supplement, iron oxide, choline chloride, copper sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, calcium iodate, magnesium oxide, cobalt carbonate, vitamin D-3 supplement, ferrous carbonate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite. Ruminant meat and bone meal free.

I highlighted the main differences, but as you can see there are other differences listed in the ingredients section as well. I'm curious to hear from others how important those differences are.

Thanks in advance for your time!
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And please excuse any mis-spellings or typos. It was a LOT of tiny reading/typing!
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Personally, I don't know if I'd feed either, as I try to stay away from feeds that just list roughage products, grain products and by-products as main ingredients, as it means the company can use just about anything in the mix as long as the guaranteed analysis works out as listed.

Which to choose, kind of depends on who you are feeding and what the recommended feed levels are of each.

What are the recommended feeding levels? It might make a difference in which to choose.
 
I'm guessing this to be some sort of textured, pelletized feed based on the generic ingredients as the "base" for the feed.

The fat content jumps out at me on the second product, as does the ingredients (methionine/lysine/zinc/vitamin E) because all of these ingredients point to a supplement or product that is specifically formulated for coat/hoof growth.

I'm not sure what you're looking for, but that's what jumps out at me first. Otherwise, they kind of look similar based on what's presented.

Andrea
 
I'm just going to through a guess out there that the first one is some kind of low cost generic sweet feed mix.

My wild guess on the second one is going to be Strategy or something very close to it.
 
Thanks for the responses. I appreciate them all.

Number 2 is what I currently feed and have fed for several years to all my horses unless they were lactating in which case I fed nutrena mare and foal or elderly then equine senior. Babies get mare and foal. Number 2 is strategy.

Number 1 is something new (locally) and looks, smells, etc like strategy and is sold next to it as something similar. I bought a bag out of interest. Strategy is $12.39 and this stuff is $8.99.

If I hold a handful of each in front of most of my horses, they show no preference, but unless one was covered in molasses that doesnt surprise me.

I was wondering about the significance of the mineral differences. I liked the lower fat part.
 
Forgot to mention, the recommend feed portions are identical.
 
I would pick the second feed based on the content if price is similar.

I choose a feed with the highest %age in the first two ingredients, based on a comment a vet made to us.
 
Yeah the fat content is a pretty big jump for me as well, which is why I would choose the 2nd one but I guess if you have a really easy keeper the first one would work just as good. The one thing I like about the 1st one is its higher in fiber.
 
Hi

I agree with Marty that the second feed sounds the best to me, it is more balanced in proportion to a better feed. Feed number 1 is too high in protein and too LOW in fat. Where does the protein come from would be my concern, and what happened to the fat that would create that protein. I also have learned that 2.5 - 3% fat is not enough fat for my mini's, unless I feed nearly double the feed.

There is also a % listed on the label (not fiber where you have listed it) that says what % of roughage is in the feed. Roughage while good in its intended quantities is not good if it is high, it is wasted feed, a filler. Some cheaper feeds in other words have 22% /- of roughage. A good quality feed will have about 10% roughage in it. All feeds unless a complete feed require hay/pasture in addition to the feed you provide for roughage.

Once you know what "processed grain by products, roughage products, forage products, plant proteins" are exactly, then you can determine the quality of your feed. You will never know for sure how a feed will work for you unless you use it for a long period of time. Usually your cheaper feeds do not have the vitamins and minerals in them that a better quality feed has, that your horse requires. There IS A difference why the feed is a lot cheaper and location of the production plant is not the only reason.

One year, I used a locally produced feed. Nearly similar to Strategy, or so I thought. My horses looked good on it, fat, shiney and so forth. TWO of my mares that year produced babies with "wavy hooves". I have never seen anything like that before, nor have I heard of it or could find nothing on the Internet about it. The waves were from the coronet band to bottom of hoof line on one foot of each of the foals, not around in a ring like. They did outgrow it.......but I attributed it to the feed, and have not switched off a good name brand feed since. I feed good quality hay, coastal and alfalfa along with my feed and did so in this case. It had to be the feed. Both mares have produced other foals for me, before and after this incident, I have never seen it again.

I have learned that it is best to find someone I respect in the business and follow their advise. If it works for them, it will most likely work for me. Trying to save money, does not always save you money in the long run.

My opinion.....
 
Thanks for the additional responses. Not knowing any better I assumed less fat was a good thing. I do think my horses have done well on strategy so don't know that I need to change it, but thought I'd try a bag of the other stuff to see what I thought. It's interesting to learn that less fat isn't always a good thing. For a horse like Puddin that I FIGHT to get any feed in, of course I know more fat is what she needs, but the majority of my current herd are the stereotypical air ferns. Wiz, Puddin, Butter and the weaners are the only ones that currently get special treatment - meaning more than strategy and grass hay.

Thanks again!
 
Forgot to mention, the recommend feed portions are identical.
If you have some air ferns, then with the feed portions the same, I might pick number 1 for those horses. Although, if you are already feeding the second feed and its working well for you, then as they say "why fix something that isn't broke".
 
I haven't read the other responses Parmela, but I can tell you I won't feed my horses any product which lists 'grain products' or 'forage products' instead of the actual grain or forage used. What a listing like this tells me is that this manufacturer is buying whatever grain or forage they can get at the cheapest price then tweaking their formula to keep the guaranteed analysis the same.

Some of those 'grain products' might not be nearly as good for a horse as others and the nutrients in them may not be useable to the horse much at all.

Charlotte
 
Here is a very helpful article on interpreting feed labels from the blog, BEHIND THE BIT.

http://www.behindthebitblog.com/

BEHIND THE BIT

Tuesday, March 25, 2008

Horse nutrition: Reading feed labels

Last Friday I attended a lecture on equine nutrition offered by a local veterinarian. Dr. Ron Feindt of Bucks County, PA spoke to a group of about 35 inquisitive people--there were lots of questions! He covered a wide range of topics --soup to nuts--but I was most interested in his advice on reading feed labels. I thought I'd share some of my notes...

Feed label regulation

Feed labels are subject to national and state regulation, and guidelines are provided by professional associations.

Types of feeds

* Textured concentrates. Sweet feed, or grains (whole or processed) mixed molasses for palatability, along with other nutrients to improve the balance of the total ration.

* Processed concentrates. Pelleted or extruded feed, usually processed for improved digestibility and to eliminate fines/sorting which affects ration balance.

* Complete feed. A mixture of concentrates and forage intended to replace the need for forage or any other feed -- it meets all nutrient requirements by itself.

* Supplements. Protein, mineral, and trace elements or vitamins.

Feed label practices: Buyer beware!

Some states require that feed companies use specific listings on their labels. This way you know exactly what you are getting. Other states permit the use of generic, or collective terms like "plant protein by-products" rather than individual ingredients. This allows them to use the same label even when the bag contents changes, and they can buy whatever is cheapest on the open market. Generic listings allow a much broader ability to substitute ingredients into and out of a particular product. For example, barley could be substituted for oats, or cottonseed meal could be substituted for soybean meal. This is a change in contents that you cannot predict from bag to bag, and your horse may react differently to each formulation. Generic ingredient categories include terms such as grain products, plant protein products, forage products, grain by-products and so forth. Specific listings must list the actual ingredient, such as oats, barley, soybean meal, or cottonseed meal. It has been found that soybean meal as a protein source is superior to cottonseed meal, which is the most common protein source for horse feed. Look for feed labels that lists ingredients individually. This assures you of a fixed formula and consistency from bag to bag.

Protein sources

Feeds can use a variety of protein sources, from corn, oats, cottonseed, barley, to soybeans. Currently the highest quality protein source for horses being added to feed is soybean meal, or a soybean product. Also remember that crude protein is not digestible protein. If the protein sources are inferior and have a low digestibility, the horse will not be able to use that as a protein source. This is especially important for growing horses.

Lysine and amino acids

Amino acid levels are a good indication of the digestibility and overall quality of protein. In fact, lysine levels are more important than protein levels for growing horses. Use feeds that guarantee lysine levels. A 12-percent protein feed with a guaranteed lysine level of 0.6 percent will give you better results than a 14 percent protein feed with a lysine level of 0.4 percent. It is the amino acid content of the feed, not the total protein level of the feed, that will determine how well a horse uses ingested protein. Soybean meal, milk protein, and alfalfa are high in lysine, while grains and grasses are generally low.

Cheap fillers in feed:

Here are examples of "cheap fillers" that you want to avoid:

* Wheat Middlings: A by-product of wheat processing; cheap filler,little nutritional value.

* Soybean or Oat Hulls: The outer covering of the grain or seed; cheap filler

* Artificial Flavorings: not overseen by the USDA

* Alfalfa Meal or Bermuda Straw: Filler made from poor quality and older hay; not much nutritive value

* By-Products: leftover from processing another material. Not federal laws or guidlines defining what is meant by a by-product.

Low starch diets

A low starch/sugar diet is healthier for the horse, and for horses with Cushings or who are prone to founder, it is especially important. A small amount of high quality whole oats is much better than lower quality, over-processed grainby-products and materials. Ingredients which contribute to starch and sugar in feeds include grains as well as molasses which can wreck havoc on the horse's glucose levels.

Some companies are marketing a low starch/sugar product that consists of inferior grain ingredients and by-products. While low in starch, these products are also low in nutritional value. Quality companies are using rice bran, flaxseed and/or beet pulp.

Check quantities!

Some concentrated feeds also contain ingredients that may sound great but the amounts aren't enough to make a difference to the animal. If labels show quantities of MSM, biotin and probiotics, check the amounts. MSM is only beneficial in amounts of 10 grams per day. With probiotics, companies often include only one or two strains of bacteria when a minimum of six or seven are needed.

Over-Processing and Storage

Highly processed concentrated feed products lack beneficial enzymes as well as some vitamins and minerals--the heat from processing depletes them. More nutrients are lost with age.

Fat and Fiber

Look for feeds that have a minimum of 3% fat and/or a maximum of 10% fiber.

The higher the fat guarantee and the lower the fiber guarantee, the higher the digestible energy content. Lower fiber-containing feeds tend to be more digestible. Fat contains more energy per pound than any other dietary component. Therefore, as fat increases and fiber decreases, digestible energy levels increase.

Minerals and vitamins

Say you are comparing two feeds that have equal guaranteed copper and zinc levels. One feed label lists copper carbonate and zinc oxide, while the other feed label lists copper sulfate and zinc sulfate. Which one would you rather have? The answer: select the feed with copper sulfate and zinc sulfate since mineral sulfates, because they tend to be more digestible than mineral carbonate or oxide forms.

Organic mineral sources are even better than mineral sulfate forms, but they tend to be more expensive. You will see them in the ingredient listing section of the label as "proteinates" or "chelates" (that is, copper proteinate or zinc proteinate). These chelated minerals are 25-55% more available than their “inorganic” counterparts (sulfates and oxides).

There are many Web sites covering this topic. Here are a few...

How to read a feed label from The Horse magazine (restricted access)

Basics of Feeding Horses: Reading the Feed Tag

Feed Tag Information for Commercial Feeds for Horses

Guaranteed Analysis Feed Label

Buying Prepared Horse Feed : sweet feed, pellets, extruded

Feed Tag Information for Commercial Feeds for Horses
(if you check the original article on Behind the Bit, these referenced articles are linked.)
 
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I don't feed anything that starts with "grain by products and processed grain by products" anymore.

There is too much fluctuation and the ability to use whatever is currently available.

So I use a feed with a "locked formula" so the company does not change ingredients on me.

It's just worked better for me for condition, health and coat condition.
 
I used to mix my own feed but when I got the rescue mare in, badly under weight and having chronic founder for 5+ years at the time... I went to bagged feed. I just couldn't take a chance with plan grain and she needed more than just hay. She was a very hard keeper.

Nutrena Safe Choice- And this has done wonders for her.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein Min 14.0 %

Lysine Min 0.8

Methlonine Min 0.35

L-Threonine Min 0.45

Crude Fat Min 7.0

Crude Fiber Max 15.0

Calcium Min 0.9 Max 1.2

Phosphorus Min 0.75

Copper Min 50 PPM

Selenium Min 0.6 PPM

Zinc Min 160 PPM

Vitamin A Min 3,990 IU/LB

Vitamin D Min 360 IU/LB

Vitamin E Min 100 IU/LB

Biotin Min 0.45MG/LB

Ingredients:

Active Dry Yeast, Hominy Feed, Wheat Middlings, Distillers Grains with Solubles, Wheat Red Dog, Soybean Hulis, Rice Hulls, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Cane Molasses, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine, Biotin, Folic Acis, L-Lysine, Methionine, Hydroxy Analogue,

Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Manganous Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Ferrous Carbonate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dlhydriodide, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate Sodium Selenite, Enteroccocus faeclum Fermentation Preduct dehydrated, Biflidobacterium thermophllum Fermentation Product dehydrated, Manganese Methlonine Complex, Lactobacillus casel Fermentation Product dehydrated copper lysine complex, Zinc Methlonine Complex, Calcium Propionate(a preservative), Sodium Acetate, Citric Acid, Natural and Artificial Flavors added, Calcium Magnesium Montmorrillonite, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Corn Oil, Mineral Oil, Soybean Oil.

And this is the Triple crown light Starch I was thinking of using.. now that she seems to be keeping her weight better, with care I have given her.

Crude Protein (min.) 13.00%

Lysine (min.) 0.70%

Methionine & Cystine (min.) 0.40%

Threonine (min.) 0.35%

Crude Fat (min.) 6.00%

Crude Fiber (max.) 18.00%

Calcium (min.) 0.75%

Calcium (max.) 1.25%

Phosphorus (min.) 0.60%

Magnesium (min.) 0.50%

Iron (min.) 170 ppm

Potassium (min.) 0.75%

Selenium (min.) 0.60 ppm

Zinc (min.) 170 ppm

Manganese (min.) 100 ppm

Copper (min.) 50 ppm

Vitamin A (min.) 6,000 IU/lb

Vitamin D (min.) 500 IU/lb

Vitamin E (min.) 200 IU/lb

Vitamin C (min.) 45 mg/lb

Biotin (min.) 0.3 mg/lb

Lactobacillus Acidophilus Bacteria (min.) 2.0 million CFU/gm

Saccharomyces Cerevisiae (min.) 4.0 million CFU/gm

Cellulase (min.) 110 CMC–ase Units/lb

Protease (min.) 0.40 Northrup Units/lb

Wheat Middlings, Soybean Hulls, Shredded Beet Pulp, Distillers Dried Grains, Soybean Oil, Ground Limestone, Salt, Rice Bran, Sodium Bicarbonate, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Kelp Meal,Yeast Culture, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Anethole, Fenugreek Seed, Lecithin, Magnesium Oxide, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Calcium Carbonate, Selenium Yeast, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed, Lignin Sulfonate, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Brewers Dried Yeast, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, DL-methionine, DL-methionine Hydroxy Analog.(Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000)

Now that I have that all typed out... need to do some comparing. Thank you for bringing this kind of thing up.
 
When I started to use strategy I questioned the label, which started with the processed grain by products. I was told by a nutritionist there at the store at the time that Purina lists their ingrediants like that so that they cant be copied. Thats why they list them that way, it doesnt mean its not a premium feed. One thing to look at is that a feed can list certain ingrediants, but are they there are different levels of quality of the grain. Also the grains used in a premium feed are cleaner as I was told and only highest quality ingrediants were used. Also another thing to look at is calories per pound too. Even though the feed may look similar there could be fewer calories so it may take more feed to keep good weight on the horse possibly. Another thing to think about is the feed quality can help reduce colic as well. I know ( knock on wood) that we have only had one very mild colic in three years on strategy with about 50 horses per year on it and that is very good percentages.
 
I have tried using the Purina strategy and my horses have problems with it.Even with switching over very slowly.

Started using Safechoice because at the the time was the best of that type of feed I could find local. And if I pay in cash, I get a discount.

Looking at both the Safechoice and the TripleCrown low starch... looks like the Triple Crown might be the better feed, as it has Sulfate in it, instead of the oxides forms of Minerals and per Susanne's excellent info.

Only problem with the Triple Crown, can be hard to get ahold of.
 
I feed Purina Strategy, and the weird thing is, it has specific ingredients like "Wheat Middlings" on it, not anything generic like is posted above.

However, I do pay $23 a bag for it. I wish I had hay and grain prices like you guys over there!

Andrea
 
Here is a link to the feed that I just started feeding. Nutrena Compete My local Atwoods carries it now. I liked the Nutrena products before and was glad to see it back in the stores. Just keeping my fingers crossed that they continue to carry it as everytime that I find a feed that I like and have been using a while, the other feed store would quit carrying it.

I would prefer the SafeChoice, but they are not carrying it for some reason.
 

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