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ohmt

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Now ladies, be nice. Where's Marty to sing her peace songs when we need her!

Allaboutminis-I am confused why you feel the need to keep coming back on here and put down those that are effected by this. Don't feel sorry for them? Well, now I'm feeling sorry for you. I wish you all the best and I hope you are never in a situation like those who put their trust into others to get the entries in on time. Those that have spent thousands and thousands to have their horse trained and shown to get to Nationals and be let down by another due to the mistake of trusting too much.

I regret that I even started this thread for the person who wrote the letter. Some people really lack compassion.
 
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minimomNC

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Hold on allaboutminis, I don't think I was making excuses about anything, my issue is the threats they are getting. I never said a thing about what should or shouldn't happen. As you copied from my post, "While I believe that the rules should be followed, there is no need to get so darn nasty about it" I don't think that is making excuses for anything. The person that has become ill is stressed because of the threats and how bad they feel that they let others down. Again no excuses, so rein it in, you have made your point. Show no mercy for anyone no matter what, we got it.
 

allaboutminis

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Last time I check I could speak! Well they would not be sick if they would of sent them in know would they. I For one have had to travel and spent my hard earn money for my horses to go to nationals. But yet I still got mine sent in. I do feel bad for the ones that sent theirs to others but for the one that the depended on heck no I don't ! And for thebBOD that did not get theirs sent in oh well
 

dreaminmini

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I have read the letter before on Facebook. I have though about the situation. I feel very badly for those people involved. I know the excitement of going to Nationals, of your hopes for your horses and having a good time there. There's nothing like it. To have them dashed like that must be heartbreaking regardless of whose fault it may be. I have my horse with a trainer and rely on her to make the entries on time and I am not the only one in North America that does. Could you imagine a trainer of 20 or so horses have all the owners send in their own entries and have his horses in all different barns???? Nightmare! Plus having the trainer do it, should ensure all entries are in on time, so an owner doesn't forget and waste the work that was done all year.

IF, truly the post office was at fault, and it can be proved, then I feel they should be allowed. Just the same if there was some natural disaster that prevent mail from getting through to the office on time. What are we going to say "you should have thought there might be a fire and mailed your entries the day before"?

As for the difference between Congress and Nationals and the differing rules that apply to entries. They should be the same for both. Also I would be all for on-line entries the would help ensure that this problem doesn't occur in future. But then it would be the computer was wrong, power failure, system crashes. Humans are humans and in life stuff happens.

I feel bad for those involved and would not want to be in their shoes. They are human and I don't blame them for trying to still get their horses in, being honest, most of us would, even knowing the rules. Threatening them is just plain nasty. Those people are the ones that should not come to Nationals. Is there nothing in the rules about unsportsmanlike behavior - that is what this is!!! Do I need to worry that if my horse beats theirs that they are going to come after my horse? That is what this smacks of. Or am I wasting my money even participating at Nationals because the ribbons are already decided upon now?? That someone has the power to make sure a person doesn't win?? Disgusts me and makes me wonder if I want to continue in this registry. This is a horse show!!! Not a life or death pursuit. Get a grip!!
 

Magic

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I feel really badly for all of the people whose entries did not get postmarked on time for Nationals, I can only imagine how devastated I would feel if that happened to me.
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Still, I do believe that rules are rules, and they should apply to all. If an organization has a rule then it must be followed, or chaos will ensue. No saying "oh, well this situation is much more dire, so we'll allow it this time".
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I like that idea of possibly getting a future rule change so that later entries could be accepted, with a hefty late fee, and an addition added to the show book, but that would have to be written up and submitted and studied and voted on.
 

Riverrose28

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although this whole situation is sad, there is no excuse for threats! NONE! I have been to shows where there have been threats made, and taken seriously! I've also been to a show where one exhibitor sat at the measuring area to observe all measuments, as she was upset over something. It's a shame that adults feel the need to act like three year olds! My young Grandson shows better sportsmanship then this. I only read a couple of forums so haven't seen this anywhere else, but I'm sure the manure has hit the fan.
 

allaboutminis

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Some was post marked Aug 1st come one. This is from one from the home office. One day late or 10 it is still late.
 

kaykay

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I received an email stating that this specific issue has not been brought to the Board Of Directors. The decision was made by the Executive Board.Just some info for those of you speculating about the BOD. Not everyone on the BOD posts on the forums but they do want to ensure facts are straight even if they are unable to post themselves.

Andrea
I was told the executive board did not vote on this. The National Show Committee voted to deny the entries.

It is just crazy how the story keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Remember it hasn't been that long that information or even misinformation could spread so fast and easy. This rule was passed in the 90's by the people on the miniature committee. This is what they wanted. I feel sure they had their reasons. And for whatever reason the Shetland committee did not want this so it was not passed for Congress. Probably because it is a smaller national show.

I feel horrible that someone was threatened but unfortunately it does happen. I have seen a lot of things over the years that I wish I hadn't.
 

minie812

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Such a shame that this has happened and caused so much division amongst it's members. Yes, rules are rules aren't they? No gray areas always black & white? I imagine the trainer feels like S---! That person let their clients down and OMGoodness so did our mail system...neither rain nor sleet or snow but it happened didn't it? I wonder what the newbies think of this? Will this kind of behavior toward one another make them want to join the AMHR or will they want no part of it. The BOD is in place to make the decision for NOW. Let them do their job. Then plan on asking for them to make some changes in their rules for nx year by writing to the AMHR. I know I will.
 

Minimor

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Threats are never acceptable, and it is entirely possible that the person making the threat  could end up in a lot of trouble if the target should choose to turn it over to law enforcement.  

Yes, it is true that there are a number of ways someone can ensure that a horse won’t win.  Remember the incident at Worlds a couple of years ago, where someone hacked off a horse’s mane during the night?  There are plenty of other ways too—ways that physically harm the horse. 
 

Ashley

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If they are a stickler like they use to be then they shouldnt be allowed to enter. I do think some of the rules are a bit extream and need to be looked at and updated.
 

ctinsley

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I HAVE NOTICED THAT MANY PEOPLE SAY THIS HAS BEEN IN THE RULE BOOK SINCE THE 1990'S. WELL I JUST DUG OUT MY 2005 RULE BOOK AND IT STATES " CLOSING ENTRY DATE FOR THE NATIONAL SHOW SHALL BE TWENTY-ONE DAYS BEFORE THE OPENING DAY OF THE NATIONAL SHOW". WHEN AND WHY WAS THE WORDING CHANGED, WE ARE NO WHERE NEAR 21 DAYS BEFORE NATIONALS AT THIS DATE. ALSO, MANY PEOPLE SAY THE YOUTH QUALIFYING FORMS ARE BEING BYPASSED FOR ENTRIES, IT STATES IN THE RULE BOOK THESE HAVE TO BE DONE IN ORDER FOR YOUTH TO SHOW. IF ONE RULE CAN BE EXCUSED WHY CAN'T THE OTHER. JUST SAYING.
 

JMS Miniatures

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Here is what the ruling says in the current rule book:

"The closing entry date for the AMHR National Show shall be determined by the show management. No entries for new horses will be accepted after closing date of AMHR National Show. No post entries will be accepted at the AMHR National Show. All horses must be in the show program. Classes may be added, but no new horse may be entered after the closing date. No horse substitutions without a veterinarian certificate of horse's inability to show."

"No post entering of youth classes. Neither horse nor youth can be changed after the closing date."

I have heard that the qualification forms are being laxed, which I don't agree with.
 

LaVern

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I just can't stop thinking about this. My mind says one thing, ( be tough, a rule is a rule) and my heart says another. And I guess when it comes to AMHR and our miniature horses my heart has always won. It is not like anything is being swept under the rug. I know that I have been forgiven for mistakes that I have made.
 

drmatthewtaylor

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This topic is on my mind as well. I was not aware of the financial implications of this rule. Since its implementation I wonder how much it has cost the Club? I wonder how often this rule created so much aggravation that the Club lost members altogether (whether they were the late ones or others who felt like someone got special treatment).

I do not sit on this BOD, but have sat on quite a few. It would aggravate me to hear folks say I shouldn't get special treatment. Really?!? After I've donated my time, effort, and good name to the Club, not to mention all the money it costs me to miss work and you don't think BOD members past and present deserve special consideration? Doesn't make me want to volunteer if I don't think the Club has my back.

Dr. Taylor
 

Lilbit1997

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My opinion on the matter is:

If the post office made an error and it is proven and a letter was sent to AMHR from the post office stating this then its a non issue and that group of entries should be allowed to show.

As far as the breaking the deadline date just give them a fine. They broke the rule there is a penalty. In school if you don't get an assignment in on time then you don't fail the class. But you do get a zero on the assignment. Which can significantly drop your grade. And the teacher still has to grade all of papers from all of her classes. AMHR still has to go through all the entries and make the show book.

If the whole world was run just on rules with no exceptions then it would be a huge mess. Yeah, it may be orderly but absoulutly no one would have fun. To me having my two geldings has been nothing but fun. This is my second time at nationals And I'm paying for myself and my two boys to go. Because I WANT to be there.

I'm sure those entries that got in late would pay extra to go. Because they WANT to be there.

We are all humans. Yes, we do need to respect rules... but we also need to compassionate.

Also, look at the big picture. If AMHR turns away these competitors they may lose them forever. The owners might get upset and switch to AMHA. Look at the impact that would have on AMHR. and how much revenue would be lost. Even if it all remains in the Mini world. Or they may even switch to big horses and minis may begin to die out in America.

So, I think the post office error should be excused, a fine should be instated on the others (at whatever amount people deem fit). But thats just my opinion. In the end its up to whatever board/comitee is voting on it (way too many have been mentioned). Their decision is final and everyone needs to respect that.
 

RayVik

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Many have mentioned issues regarding legalities and lawsuits and post the rules as a point of concern

I would say to those to read the rule carefully as it very specially says NO entries are to be accepted after the closing date ... NOTHING about post marks or other and if the entry form states post marks then who authorized that change and where is it posted plus a post mark is not a fed ex or ups time stamp

Also as written if the publisher or anyone else leaves a horses name out of the catalog or misprints it they are excluded because that is what it says not their fault but it's the rule

I reconise reason should prevail in this matter but when you want to apply rules and a subjective or objective interpatation can be made you can find issues beyond your intentions

Not arguing these points just pointing them out for consideration when and if someone wants to made a point about following the rule
 

RayVik

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1 other quick point

By our rules it wil take 3 years for a change in this rule

1. Closing date for submitting is July 1 so this year is out

2. Change summited and approved next year does not take affect until the next year after that

If its extraordinary then it can be changed now thus dealing with this problem now

Just clearing this point for reference
 

JMS Miniatures

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If they give these entries a chance to show then how come they wouldn't let past entries be able to show but instead turned away? This has gone public nation wide, if they let these group show then we will have future cases of this happening and they will always go back to this point "hey you let those 6 entries show why not me".

AMHR just cannot bend the rule on this. The only thing they can do is discuss this at Convention, if they do at all, or someone send in a proposal to get this ruling changed. I know those people affected will be truly hurt and upset but IMO AMHR just can't do anything. If they decide that AMHR is being unfair and they show elsewhere it's too bad. But AMHR has too look at the whole picture and how many more people this would affect if they decide to let them in.
 

drmatthewtaylor

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Many have mentioned issues regarding legalities and lawsuits and post the rules as a point of concern

I would say to those to read the rule carefully as it very specially says NO entries are to be accepted after the closing date ... NOTHING about post marks or other and if the entry form states post marks then who authorized that change and where is it posted plus a post mark is not a fed ex or ups time stamp

Also as written if the publisher or anyone else leaves a horses name out of the catalog or misprints it they are excluded because that is what it says not their fault but it's the rule

I reconise reason should prevail in this matter but when you want to apply rules and a subjective or objective interpatation can be made you can find issues beyond your intentions

Not arguing these points just pointing them out for consideration when and if someone wants to made a point about following the rule
The 'post mark' is a good point.

Can I use FedEx and UPS as they don't 'post mark', as they are not the Post Office?

What if someone hand delivered their entries? Again that's not 'post marked'.

What if I did deliver my entries to the Post Office a week in advance and I watched the the Postal Worker apply a post mark, but I didn't pay for certified or registered mail (not a requirement in the rules) and the Post Office loses my envelope? I neither have proof nor entries.

Dr. Taylor
 

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