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JMS Miniatures

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Agree if anything the BOD doesn't like to talk about anything outside their door lol.

It is probably the people who got the shaft and then started blaming AMHR, at least some. This is in no way AMHR/ASPC, the BOD, fault. Again I feel real bad about this situation. I would be devastated. I would be hurting inside. I would be pleading too. BUT, the BOD needs to follow the rules along with the people that sent the entries in late and say no show. If we do this penalty thing it has to be real severe enough and set an example and make sure this does not happen again. It's not like we can say double the class fees, because they can always enter most of their classes once they get there, unless they make them sign up for all of their classes right then and there and cannot post-enter in any classes at Tulsa?

The ruling on this will be real important at what happens in future cases like this. With that said the best way to go would be sorry no show. Otherwise I will guarantee next year it will happen again. It sucks for everyone involved including the registry. I heard that it's over 150 horses that will be affected and if that's the case that's a whole lot of money the show will be loosing.
 

LaVern

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I hadn't heard about this before yesterday. I sure wouldn't want to be a board member and decide this one. It is so heartbreaking. And that many horses could make the difference on whether or not we break even.

But I guess if I were a board member I would have to say "no show ". It isn't so much about the people that didn't get their stuff in time as the ones that did. What are they going to tell the exhibitors like me, that went buy the rules, and get beat by some of these 125 horses that didn't go by the rules. If they want to change it for next year great.

Remember just a few short years ago, the horses that didn't qualify. What, a mess that was. Same thing here.

I am famous for putting things off to the last minute. I always have to drive the 50 miles to watch the postmaster put the stamp. She goes bam, it's done and then I look.
 

Jill

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Remember just a few short years ago, the horses that didn't qualify. What, a mess that was.
You bet I remember... I will not ever forget it!
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allaboutminis

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Yes the post master can stamp it right there. So it not getting stamp is a bunch of bull. If it was a BOD too well to bad for them. They for one should know the rules.
 

ruffian

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This rule states that the Show Management has the ability to set the closing date. It would also infer that they have the ability to 'extend or change that date' as they deemed necessary. It does not say that the date cannot be extended at their discretion.

I also believe a rule is a rule and firm believer of enforcement, but feel that this "Corporation" has the fudicial duty to make decisions in the best interest of the Organization. The financial loss alone would be in the double digit thousands. I do NOT believe in special exceptions for anyone, so an extension of the closing date would allow additional entries from anyone who would like to still enter.

I believe the decision is the Show Managements according to the stated Rule but the BOD also has governing authority. I don't believe there needs to be a 'change' to the existing rule.... other than clariying that an extension of the closing date is available by decision of the show management.
I don't see where the rule "infers" the ability to change or extend the date. It states they set the date. That's it. The date was set. It's very sad that these folks won't be able to show.

If this rule gets "bent", what's to stop someone from asking to be excused from qualifying under 4 judges? This year a show was cancelled at the last minute and many folks either couldn't qualify or had to travel long distances to get qualified. Should they get special attention?

I think this could be brought up at convention and discussed with the membership, but the rule should not be ignored for these folks.

I just read it's supposed to be involving 125 horses. Six envelopes?? 125?? That's 20 horses per envelope?? that seems a little high . . .
 
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gvpalominominis

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I don't see where the rule "infers" the ability to change or extend the date. It states they set the date. That's it. The date was set. It's very sad that these folks won't be able to show.

If this rule gets "bent", what's to stop someone from asking to be excused from qualifying under 4 judges? This year a show was cancelled at the last minute and many folks either couldn't qualify or had to travel long distances to get qualified. Should they get special attention?

I think this could be brought up at convention and discussed with the membership, but the rule should not be ignored for these folks.

I just read it's supposed to be involving 125 horses. Six envelopes?? 125?? That's 20 horses per envelope?? that seems a little high . . .
Ruffian, I respect your opinion.

Yes, they set the date.... and the rule doesn't say it can't be re-set or that it is set in stone, or that it has to be so far in advance of the show... etc. It's a selected date. = ) in·fer[ in fúr ] - to conclude something from reasoning: to come to a conclusion or form an opinion about something on the basis of evidence or reasoning. To "infer" is non tangible so of course it doesn't state that in the rule. Rules and laws are followed based on interpretation. So what was the scope of the rule?? One reason may be is that it gives the office sufficient time to sort out entries and the person doing the show program time... because it's also in the rule that the entries need to be in the show program. I'm suggesting that an addendum insert can be provided to uphold that part of the rule as well, AND I have offered to help with that project if they needed it. Does it hurt the organization if the date is changed? Who does it hurt? If that can be explained logically... then the solution is easy.

It really doesn't matter who's envelopes they are but it has been said that several trainers are involved and people who were being stalled together... it could easily be 100 horses plus. On the financial side, I only have 4 young halter horses entered and my check was almost $1,000. That makes it pretty easy to do the math of how much the lost revenue could be.

I'm sure whatever the BOD decides they will consider all aspects of the situation and I for one will respect their decision whether I agree with it or not. I would just like to believe that this organization is about people, because it's people that make it what it is. It's also about Miniature Horses and a grand finale show that many people spend a lot of time, money, effort gearing towards, breed for along with plenty of hopes and dreams. Are rules important, absolutely, but, if humanity and common sense cannot prevail in the best interest overall...
 
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wildoak

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Can't get my copy/paste to work... but Dr Taylor has made some good points. No tolerance rules are not always a good thing - life is, as he said, full of grey areas and exceptions and to pretend otherwise is to deny what's real.

I have always wondered why there was not a late entry option with penalties applied. Seems like going forward, it would be a smart thing to implement. As to this year, I don't have all the facts and can't pass judgement... but IF it's as I understand it, what the post office does is completely out of our control. If my post office stamped an incorrect date odds are I wouldn't know about it until I received my entries back. And if one individual is responsible for many entries being late, my thought would be to let them absorb the consequences. Yes we have rules to follow but there are times we need to fall back on common sense. Just my 2 cents...

Jan
 

JMS Miniatures

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Last I heard it was 165 horses. Seems a lot but if one accepts a whole bunch of entries so they can be stalled together that could be the reason why. Thats why they have groups limited to only 65 stalls.

The only issue it would be to have post-entry fees means that you would have to sign up for all your classes when you send in your entries so you can avoid paying the post-entry fees vs now you can sign up for one class and enter and sign up for your other classes at the show. Myself personally I rather not have to pay for everything at once and would hate to pay more to enter another class when I get to the show.

I don't think the BOD can change a rule just like that, it has to go thru the proper channels and if they want to change it due to this situation then they can always bring it up at the AMHR meeting at Convention this year.
 

kaykay

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This story just gets bigger and bigger.

I did talk briefly to a director that said there is nothing the board can do as this is a rule in the rulebook and the board cannot go against that.

I do not ever want to see the board be able to vote against a rule in the rule book. That is really dangerous ground.

To change it going forward someone would have to propose a rule change and go thru proper channels.

I hate to be suspicious but I know when I mail something important I make the postal clerk stamp it right there while I watch. I do this all the time in the course of everyday business and always did it when I mailed show entries.

I am just taken aback that this many entries did not make it in on time especially from people that know better.

My heart does go out to the ones that don't get to show but ultimately it is not the organizations fault.
 

disneyhorse

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I received an email stating that this specific issue has not been brought to the Board Of Directors. The decision was made by the Executive Board.

Just some info for those of you speculating about the BOD. Not everyone on the BOD posts on the forums but they do want to ensure facts are straight even if they are unable to post themselves.

Andrea
 
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minimomNC

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So I wonder if anyone can find out if this has happened before and how it was handled. Surely this isn't the very first time in AMHR history there has been late entires. So what happened before, was it just let go because of who it was? Is it worse now because of who it is?, just trying to figure out why after all these years, this is the very first time late entries have been broadcast everywhere. I just find it hard to believe its never happened before. So how was it resolved then?
 

ohmt

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There have been family deaths in the past around the deadline time and the people were told no when they asked if they could still send in their entries. I'm sure there are plenty of others, the rule's been effect since the 90's. One of the reasons I believe this time should not be an exception (except those effected by the post office's error).
 

minimomNC

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So now some people have lowered themselves to threatening the people that had late entries that if their horses show, they will make sure they don't win? Yes I heard it from a very reliable source but the issue is...REALLY PEOPLE ! ! its a horse show for goodness sakes, not life or death. This has caused one person serious illness because of the stress, thats uncalled for. While I do believe that the rules should be followed, there is no need to get so darn nasty about it.
 

JMS Miniatures

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That's redicilous to have threats. I think this is simple decision, hard one, but simple and just no show. We just can't pay favoritism, and after thinking about it last night and discussing a penalty will not solve it. It sounds like it has been decided anyways. Sorry to all those involved.
 

Jill

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Of course threats are ridiculous. Did you hear it from a judge? Because wouldn't that be the only source capable of backing it up or making it so? I find it hard to believe.
 

minimomNC

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Well Jill, since you never go to shows of course you find it hard to believe. But those that do actually go to shows and show their own horses are well aware of the "ways" you can keep a horse from winning. Its not just the judges, oh and no I didn't talk to any judges, that wouldn't be right since I do have horses showing.
 

allaboutminis

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So now some people have lowered themselves to threatening the people that had late entries that if their horses show, they will make sure they don't win? Yes I heard it from a very reliable source but the issue is...REALLY PEOPLE ! ! its a horse show for goodness sakes, not life or death. This has caused one person serious illness because of the stress, thats uncalled for. While I do believe that the rules should be followed, there is no need to get so darn nasty about it.
Okay if one person has got sick so sorry they should of gotten their stuff in. But they took it upon theirself to send it to someone else and to have them to send it in. Don't feel sorry for them. Excuses after excuses is all you are hearing. I am sorry for the ones that did depend on others but that is a chance that you take! Lesson learned the hard way!
 

Jill

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Well Jill, since you never go to shows of course you find it hard to believe. But those that do actually go to shows and show their own horses are well aware of the "ways" you can keep a horse from winning. Its not just the judges, oh and no I didn't talk to any judges, that wouldn't be right since I do have horses showing.
Oh, Karen... seriously. You don't need to try an tear me down just because you don't like my sincere opinion
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