AMHR National Driving Stakes

[JMS Miniatures]

Ok I am wondering are the stakes classes at Nationals this year with so low entries is because no body wanted to enter them or is it because people needed to go home? I think there was only 2 classes that had more then 10 entries and still were pretty small classes.

I seriously think that something has to change with out schedule. We cannot have it go on til Sunday IMO its costing the Stakes classes money and quality of horses in there winning. IMO and this is JMO, I am all for the obstacle, and the jumping classes, BUT, perhaps to save a day maybe they should beable to make it where its in a different arena while maybe like the halter classes are going on, atleast for the open, not necessarly talking about the ammy or youth. I think by doing it that way it could save a day and do Stakes classes on Saturday night. Or perhaps take out a few driving classes. At the end of the show it was rushed thru, or tried to be and thats not fair especially in the stakes.

I don't think we should take away classes for the youth and ammy and I loved that the ammy had obstacle this year. I plan on doing it next year.

 

[valshingle]

As someone who could have shown in Stakes with some competitive horses, I'll give my input. Our driving classes were always in the afternoon/evenings and frequently until midnight. They were also so bunched in the schedule that those afternoons and evenings were marathons for the trainers. Our horses will be showing at AMHA Worlds and we need to give them a rest between the shows. Also, we just get flat out tired and just want to get home at that point. Also, if we don't stand a chance of winning, what is the point? By the end of the show everyone knows who will win which classes - unless they crash, which isn't likely. The class costs $50 to enter and you need to be reasonable about your chances of getting the entry fee back.

Not sour grapes, just the reality.

 

[~Lisa~]

Moving the days is not going to change it Something has to be last - the reality is even those not there and watching could see the winners of the driving classes were usually the same few horses the judges obvioulsy liked them and used them so why would someone else who has been getting 6th and 7ths (not a small feat at Nationals in those huge classes) or even 8 and 9 pay extra to go in a class when the judges are more then likely going to use the horses they have been using for the first 3 placings all show long?

As an exhibitor sometimes you just have to make a decision and for most it is not to enter the stakes unless they feel strongly they are going to be in the top 3

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I understand that its always going to be last and I agree that can't change but what I was saying is instead of having the last day on a Sunday move it up to Saturday. That way it gives plenty of people to pack up and leave on Sunday if needed. Shoot not even the top driving trainers didn't even show any of the stake classes. I dont know just my opinion.

 

[kuelinkellyville]

I did not watch the stake classes, I was already home. But if people think that the same horses are going to be picked by the same judges, then a different judge or judges should be used for these stake classes, judges that have not seen them before.

 

[Connie Ballard]

Just my 2 cents...but I think people dont bother staying because the stakes arent important...unless you want to try to win some money...there just isnt any motivation to bother competiting in them if unless you want a few bucks. If you have a TOP performing winner...and you already won your Open Pleasure or Open Country Pleasure, etc....WHY..WHY...WHY...bother staying to win couple hundred dollars??? Do you ever see anyone use the fact they won a stake at nationals ($375 purse)...on their breeding farm website...or a full page color ad in the Journal? NO...they advertise their horse won National Champiion Open Pleasure 36"-38" and maybe say in a class of 48 horses! They never say...their horse won the $375 in the stake class.

I think AMHR needs to add up their halter horse entries.....add up their driving horse entries.....

if the driving horses are equal in numbers and fees they pay to support and compete at the AMHR Nationals...then AMHR needs to change...award a TRUE DRIVING CHAMPION....invite ONLY the 1st and 2nd place horses from all the Pleasure classes to compete for the ULTIMATE GOAL....NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION...wow talk about exciting your members...rewarding them with an ultimate driving goal...like the halter horses have...it is only fair.

Again...not sour grapes from me...I barely got a ribbon this year...10th in 10 in my little driving class...LOL....I'm just looking at the marketing/sales aspect of our organization. Driving horses are huge....it is something to do with these fine little horses. The driving horses at this show were nothing short of spectactular....give them due respect....set up the National Grand Championship for each division...Pleasure, Country, Wester, Roadster. I say "Build it and they will come".

I have over 20 years marketing and sales experience reporting the the VP of sales for a Fortune 500 company. Some may say so what...my point is... this organization AMHR, is a business, the breeders competiting at this level consider it their business...whether full or part time. The horse industry is a business. Lets kick it up a notch by providing 'employee incentives'. Obviously the $375 stakes are not motivating anyone. Leave them in for fun it you like....but in todays world...people are looking for the ultimate reward...a National Grand Champion.

(13 hr drive home got in at 3:00 a.m. and still thinking about how cool the show was...couldnt stop my thoughts about what was missing...and these posts really were on target)

 

[MountainMeadows]

Well said Connie - you know that I am with you 100%

Stacy

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Wow thats pretty depressing if you put it that way. They defintelly need to make a incentive to allow to have championship classes in driving. Something just doesn't seem to add up.

 

[Devon]

I also wondered why the stakes were so low.. but again it is on sunday and not as important in most eyes as connie stated ; but again a good chance for a horse finishing behind the big guys in open to get a championship so not completely pointless

Also as you brought up have a National Grand Championship Title for driving reminded me how I was thinking how exciting it would be if we had Champion Of Champions in halter at nationals; I always find the class AMHA have at worlds so exciting and just amazing! Imagine that win..

 

[~Lisa~]

Also as you brought up have a National Grand Championship Title for driving reminded me how I was thinking how exciting it would be if we had Champion Of Champions in halter at nationals; I always find the class AMHA have at worlds so exciting and just amazing! Imagine that win..

Some love that class and others feel it takes away from the horses show so that if he goes in that class and does not win he is not really remembered for the classes he won but the won he lost

 

[Devon]

Some love that class and others feel it takes away from the horses show so that if he goes in that class and does not win he is not really remembered for the classes he won but the won he lost

I guesse you could look at it that way lol ..

 

[tagalong]

Some love that class and others feel it takes away from the horses show so that if he goes in that class and does not win he is not really remembered for the classes he won but the won he lost

Well, dog people do not think that way. If you win the Terrier Group at Westminster and yet do not win Best in Show after that, it is not a demerit and no one thinks less of that dog. Equally, if the Grand Champion Junior Mare wins that Supreme/Champion of Champions class at AMHA Worlds, it does not lessen the wins of the Grand Champion Jr. & Sr. Geldings , Grand Champion Senior Mare or the Grand Champion Junior and Senior Stallions.

That just seems like contrary/defeatist thinking to me.

I also love the fun and suspense of that Champion of Champions class... it is like the cherry on the sundae....

 

[valshingle]

I agree if they offered Driving National Grands, then I would stay. Two of my driving horses were Champions, but we still didn't stay for the stakes classes. It just wasn't worth the added expense to gamble that the judges would put us first or second. For the $50 entry fee, third place pays $75, so that's not worth the extra night at the hotel. It would also be different if Worlds didn't start the very next weekend. We have to pace the horses to make sure they are as fresh as possible. I'd rather go on to win a World Championship than win the AMHR stakes class.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I would like to see Champion of Champions class too but yet again I think we need to look into fixing the championship driving classes and make it more pizazz like they do for the halter winners. This year they just competely rushed thru the stakes, I understand everybody wanted to go home but thats not fair either.

 

[Devon]

I would like to see Champion of Champions class too but yet again I think we need to look into fixing the championship driving classes and make it more pizazz like they do for the halter winners. This year they just competely rushed thru the stakes, I understand everybody wanted to go home but thats not fair either.

I agree I didnt mean it to make halter more important just reminded me how i always thought it was odd there wasnt that class

It would be nice if they all came back in a NO FEE class like halter to compete for best over/under horse in their catagory

And still have those incentive stake classes because yes any class at nationals is a joy to win and never easy so congrats to those who did win stakes!

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning,

What does the word “Stake” mean for a driving class? Well, it means a race to which a prize is paid out. Can anyone participate in a race? Yes, if they participate in a qualifying race or in this case a driving class before they can enter a “Stakes” class. In our association a qualifying driving class is a youth, amateur, open. You just have to drive in that class to move on to the “Stakes” class. You don’t have to win your class just participate in your class. Your stakes class is your over-all “champion” driving horse with money attached to it. In most of our shows that we attend there isn't any stakes payback for those stakes classes. Our club did payback stakes money this year at our Area V Show and we had everyone come back for those stakes classes that participated in their qualifying class.

I believe the confusion comes in with the word “Stakes” instead of “Champion”. What you have to keep in mind is that this class is judged as a separate class. A driving horse can perform very well in its qualifying class, even win its qualifying class and come back into the stakes class and bomb. That horse can break while driving, it can buck it can do all sorts of things to prevent it from winning. A horse that might have placed lower in their respective qualifying class can be your winner. Why you ask? They may have needed more warm-up time to be at their upmost, they may have had problems with equipment or the horse just wasn’t itself during the initial round. As someone who does drive I sometimes use my qualifying class as a warm-up to see just how hard I need to perform in order to have my horse do what I want it to do through my hands. I don’t care if I don’t place first or second in my qualifying class but I DO care how I place in that championship class. That is where you earn your Hall of Fame recognition. You have to have (5) five Stakes wins with 70 points. You can win all you want in the qualifying classes, rack up the points there, but without those Stakes wins you are dead in the water.

Now, the other side of this coin with the reason behind “why” stakes classes were held on the final day is so that those driving horses would be at their peak or fresh. This kinda follows what the Shetland driving classes do. Most of your miniature people drive, drive, drive and come back at the end of their driving division and drive that miniature in the championship (Stakes) class. Is that horse really at its peak? Some will say yes and some will say no, but the majority of the time those miniature driving stakes ARE at the end of each of their driving divisions at their local shows. With Shetlands, the Shetland people want the break so that their horses ARE at their upmost and can come back and perform at their best.

So, if there was a proposal to change the word “Stake” to “Championship”, just like in the halter division, if you DON”T come back into your Grand class, then you forfeit your points from your qualifying class. Now, tell me why would anyone want to NOT get those hard earned points? As it stands right now, a driving person can still get their points from their qualifying class, may have even placed first or second, but for some reason didn’t feel their horse is at its upmost, then the choice is theirs as to whether they participate or not in that Stakes class. They are the only one that knows how many stakes championship they have to finish their horse Hall of Fame. If they don’t care about a Hall of Fame then that is their choice. I do care as it is an important accomplishment.

I can see the AMHR Nationals & Congress having a Stakes “Incentive” class for those that did want to pay the $50 dollars to enter so that they have a chance at winning the big prize, just like we do with the Amateur Incentive classes. Then ANYONE, a youth, amateur or professional can enter the Stakes Incentive class and take their chances competing for that grand prize.

So, for the majority of you that do drive miniatures, if you feel you want your championship class right after your division for the AMHR Nationals, then let the BOD know and Lenard so that they can prepare next years National show lineup. Then on Sunday, they can hold a ‘Stakes Incentive” or money class for those that want to drive and try to win the money.

Karen

 

[susanne]

I'd love to see a true grand champion driving class, with all the division champions and reserve champions competing.

I also like the idea of a halter Champion of Champions class.

But what I'd MOST like to "steal" from AMHA is a most versatile award (or championship). It would encourage cross entry in both halter and performance classes, and it would single out that particular horse that is the epitome of the Miniature Horse breed.

If handled properly, imagine the prestige in winning that title.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I'd love to see a true grand champion driving class, with all the division champions and reserve champions competing.

I also like the idea of a halter Champion of Champions class.

But what I'd MOST like to "steal" from AMHA is a most versatile award (or championship). It would encourage cross entry in both halter and performance classes, and it would single out that particular horse that is the epitome of the Miniature Horse breed.

If handled properly, imagine the prestige in winning that title.

I agree I would love to see AMHR have something like that. I wish they could possibly maybe do a little bit more when it comes to the versatility classes. Cause I think those horses really do contribute to the breed.

 

[midnight star stables]

Okay, I'll add my situation.

I WAS entered in the stake class, but after four other classes, warm-ups and being stalled on cement(which is not something my horses are used to) for ten days, my horse was lame/sore by the time of Stakes. We scratched for his well being.

In the future, we plan do the stakes. We will do our stabling a little different, by possibly bringing rubber mats and 2x to 3x my normal amount of shavings.

I feel stakes are important, and I think it is a shame that the turn out is so low. I think combining stakes classes is a GREAT idea.

I'm not sure why they split them up anyways. The Stakes classes should be just as grand and the Grand Halter classes.

 

[Yaddax3]

The primary reason class size was so low for Stakes was because it was held Sunday, and many people needed to pull out in order to be at work Monday morning.

I was fortunate to be able to delay my return to work until Tuesday, so we stayed for Stakes.

We competed in four Stakes classes. In three of the four, we were the only non-trainers in the class. Having Stakes on the final Sunday of the show works if you make your living as a trainer, and you are paid by clients to be there.

Class size will continue to be low if Stakes continue to be held on that final Sunday. As an association, we are losing money by holding Stakes on that Sunday.

And, as an association, we make a big deal about championships for Halter, yet give the appearance of treating Stakes driving classes as an after-thought.

When the AMHR schedule first was released, I lamented on this Forum the fact that Stakes were being held on that final Sunday and I predicted a low turnout for classes. A number of people said that it's a National show and you have to adjust. I'd like to update a question I asked then (and never got a response): How many people who supported Stakes on that final Sunday actually stayed for Stakes, and how many who supported Stakes on that final Sunday actually went to Nationals?

It's easy to have an opinion when it doesn't impact you.

We should at least consider holding several Stakes classes every night there are Open driving classes, culminating with all Stakes classes being finished the final Saturday night.