AMHA is CLosing Their Books!! As well as a new Height rule change!!

[Dontworrybeappy]

Based upon what was said at the meeting. The reason why they went to the base of the withers was because they wanted to measure on the bone rather than some arbatrary last hair of the mane. It was brought up that some trainers are sewing in mane hair to extend it down lower on the back so that the horse could then measure in, or they have left the hair longer on the back, dyed it to match the mane and then sprayed it with hairspray so that it woud feel like mane hairs. They can not do that if the measurer is feeling for the last bone of the withers. They can also not press down on the back as well in hopes that the horse will measure in.

I am sure that the cheaters will still find ways to get around this, but something had to be done. Someday it may come to be the top of the withers, but it has to be as fair as possible for all members. To me, the top of the withers is just fine.

OK, wait - it's "easier" to change the way of measuring 400,000 horses (give or take) to some oddball new "standard" than it is to just ENFORCE the rules, CATCH the cheaters and get them outta the game?

Is it just me?

 

[MinisOutWest]

ok, ok ,ok, Stopping the fighting and fussing!!! you know whats going to happen???

In a year or two they will change the height measurement rule again to satisfy someone elses needs.

it will be a continual fight, so just buy horses under 34" with long feet and measure with a short stick and we all will be fine and not fight any more.

But I promise you, rules are made to be broken and changed by whom ever is in charge for that time.

Thats just life and it happens everyday- everywhere.

 

[crponies]

Bottom line - own what you like and enjoy. Go to the shows that you enjoy.

 

[k9mini2]

Hi everyone. I rarely post but just have to add my 2 cents.

WHY did the club not change the rule to Allow all members the opportunity to vote..In todays technological age the current "convention voting system" fits very well for those who in my estimation are a privileged few to dictate their will to the majority.

None of this would be an issue had the true membership actually been allowed to vote on this issue and it then would have been decided by the TRUE Majority.

I see both sides of the argument, I frankly think changing the place to measure is going to reduce the credibility of the AMHA more than help...but done is done... I take it we will all have to play by these rules no matter how much we howl. After all those who voted aren't listening to the general membership

 

[Cathy_H]

NON OF THIS WOULD EVEN HAVE HAPPENED IF THERE WERE NOT SO MANY CHEATERS OUT THERE

........... Actually NONE of this would happen IF the people measuring would not accomodate the cheaters, which brings us back to the SAME old problem -

the people measuring letting the cheaters through. OH! ....

......... Down the road this most likely will have to be changed again so this wishy washy back & forth will continue to deteroriate the registry's reputation even further.............................................................

WHY did the club not change the rule to Allow all members the opportunity to vote..

............ Because as stated on here many many times in the past those of us that do not go to the meetings & hear the pro's & cons

do NOT have the intelligence or capability to make an informed decision!

 

[Jill]

I'm wondering how much money will we all be able to save on feed? ...

Now that our AMHA horses have shrunk by an inch or so.

 

[targetsmom]

I know I should stay out of this, but...

If they were going to change the point of measurement and didn't want to penalize the current 34" mini, why not change the point of measurement to the top of the withers (as everyone else does) and then SUBTRACT the length of the hoof (i.e. measure from the top of the coronet band to the top of withers)? This would at least make 2 easily found measuring points, one of them standard, and might even help with the cheating issue. Makes at least as much sense to me as what they came up with and would probably help some mini's feet in the process. Or maybe that wouldn't have accomplished the real aim - getting those 35" and over minis into the registry?

I am sure someone would come up with a stick that could do the subtraction - maybe AMHA could sell the sticks for extra $$$$.

Actually, it pains me to think that "they" is really "us" for those of us who are AMHA members.

 

[k9mini2]

............ Because as stated on here many many times in the past those of us that do not go to the meetings & hear the pro's & cons

do NOT have the intelligence or capability to make an informed decision!

DANG!!!! I HAVE TO PASS AND IQ TEST TO VOTE IN AMHA!

Just kidding... I understand the point...but look at this website and the news letter AMHA sends out and the fact others mention being able to listen to the AMHA procedings on line...come on... This is something the membership that cares to can get informed on.

Enough said, on this I know its off tract from the other argument going on here I hope everyone doesn't end up causing a lot of hate and battle scars over this, but this looks like its going over very badly

 

[Boinky]

Well i checked all my mini's today and their "base of the withers" is quite a bit different than even their last hair of the mane. I didn't actually take the stick to them but it was AT LEAST 1/2" shorter than the last mane hair and we aren't talking skinny mini's.. they are all pretty rolly polly right now. the base of the withers is indeed the lowest spot on all my horses.

 

[midnight star stables]

Well i checked all my mini's today and their "base of the withers" is quite a bit different than even their last hair of the mane. I didn't actually take the stick to them but it was AT LEAST 1/2" shorter than the last mane hair and we aren't talking skinny mini's.. they are all pretty rolly polly right now. the base of the withers is indeed the lowest spot on all my horses.

Hmm.. Now I wonder if I can hardship in my 35" stallion and 35.50" gelding in to AMHA this year..

OH!

 

[Boinky]

lol i think i read back a million posts ago it goes into effect Jan 09' so next year you could

 

[sfmini]

There was no decision made or procedure defined for any 'grandfathering' of horses under the new measurement system.

 

[sedeh]

You have to think about the people who have paid a lot of money for their horse that measures 33 1/2" tall right now. They would technically now be oversized with the top of the withers measuring. Yes, they may be grandfathered in, but they would have to worry about the offspring that would not be grandfathered in. Then there is the show ring with the grandfathered horses competing unfairly against the horses that would not qualify for being grandfathered in.
NON OF THIS WOULD EVEN HAVE HAPPENED IF THERE WERE NOT SO MANY CHEATERS OUT THERE IN BOTH AMHA AND AMHR TRYING TO GET AN OVERSIZED HORSE IN INTO A SMALLER CLASS, iINTO THE A LEVEL OF AMHR OR INTO AMHA. It is because of what has happened this year that so many people are in an uproar.

I also have one more question, since you only show AMHR why should you care what AMHA is doing?

AMHA is not busy thinking up ways of getting oversized horses into their registry, but just the opposit!!

As for the Brooklyn Bridge, I think you already bought it!!

I wasn't going to chime in here but the new measurement system affects other registries besides AMHA. I personally wish they would change it to the top of the withers as that is standard in big horses and overseas. I show Pinto so I'm not bashing AMHA. I triple register my horses so they're more marketable and people have a choice as to what venue they want to show in(if they want to show). I also like the 32-34 inch horses because I like horses that are good in performance classes and I just think that height range suites me best. So I'm in that group that would worry about their horses not being AMHA eligible if they changed the measurement to top of withers. I think the best solution would be to make 2 changes......top of withers and increase the height to 35". Most minis don't have "high" withers like some other breeds do and I think if they researched it they'd find that all they'd have to give is an inch. Mostly I don't think we need another measurement spot! How do I market my horses? They'd be different heights in different registries! When I measure at Pinto shows it depends on who measures and what their beliefs are. Most do the last hair measurement but some say "don't give me that bull.....I'm measuring at the top of withers!".....now we'd have another group trying to find the end of the withers? Help! OH!

 

[skanzler]

Well it took me at least 30 minutes to read all of these posts, some I read twice. And since I am an AMHA/AMHR member I need to also put in my opinion.

There are many on here that I totally agree with. If we have now moved the measurement point down to the base of the withers, several of my ASPC/AMHR horses will be able to register in AMHA. They are strictly pony blood lines.....So what AMHA has done is allow those pony lines they have tried so hard to keep OUT of AMHA into the registry. The offspring may or may not go over, but they will definitely be right up there at 34.5 or 35 inches, but will certainly be able to measure in at the base of the withers. But the reality of this is that they are OVER the 34 inch requirement.....

As stated before AMHA's sole purpose was to have the smallest most correct horse. In doing this they are going against everything they stand for. They are offering those that have continually snubbed their nose at the rules of measurement the opportunity to come up with even more creative ways to measure their horses. And most of these new and creative ideas will be at the epense of the horse. Trimming too short, sensitizing the back.

Measuring at the top of the withers would make much more sense if the true idea is to stop the cheating. It is virtually impossible to cause the top of the wither to sink. And yes some of those iffy horses will have to be grandfathered in and yes their offspring may or may not make it in, but at this point many breeders that choose to breed for the so called 34 inches horses take that chance year afther year. And I am sure that many of them have a pasture full of over 34 inch horses. Lets really be honest with ourselves.....

I agree with measuring top of withers to ground then measure the heel and subtract that measurement. This would give the true height of the horse, no question. No matter how much stretching and push the back down etc will make this measurement untrue. It has to do with bone structure.

Having three different places to measure our horses is rediculous and really from an outside person looking in we look like idiots.......One more reason for the other breeds to laugh at us. We can't even come up with a legitimate way to measure our horses. We that call ourselves a height breed.....

I have been asked by a full size horse owner "Why do you measure at the last mane hair?" Answer: I have no idea.........

I do have one question....Who was the founding father of AMHA that came up with the 34 inch max height on a miniature horses.

As for closing the registry, this will not make us a breed. It will just limit our opportunity to continue to work for a more correct beautiful miniature horse. And hopefully eventually eliminate the dwarf gene from this breed. We are embracing those older bloodlines that brought about this gene. Many of the old lines carry it. Why would we want to close the books and keep this gene going? Why not pull some pure blood into the registry. Yes, I know people are afraid of those horses that are grade horses.....Some of the cleanest blood out there are those unknown horses. In any breed you will come across those horses that will offer the breed nothing. But I have to say there are several within our association that do this on a consistant basis. Until we come up with a culling system to eliminate those horses that are sub standard and offer them only papers as performance horses, not to breed, there will be no step toward becoming a true breed. We will forever remain a height registry.

Just my opinion.....

 

[HGFarm]

How is measuring at the base of the withers going to change things? Is this going to stop people from stretching their horses, spreading their feet out, or doing other things to drop their back to measure in??!! This is putting a Bandaid on an arterial wound!

All this is doing is allowing the ones who previously measured over by a bit, like the 35" ones, to measure in at 34"!!

I personally think this change is worthless in regards to making people be honest about measuring in horses 34 and under!!

My asbestos suit is on... flame away.

 

[Jill]

I fully agree with you, Laurie.

It's really ironic in a way. These horses will now "officially" measure shorter and they do and look so good that now they have made it so they can officially "be" short enough to measure under 34".

AMHA's got it bad for those little B's, huh?

 

[bingo]

I have read this entire thread PHEW that took some time!

It is a very interesting turn of events. AMHA will never be the same that is for sure. On every horse I and friends have measured they came in shorter some over an inch- someone quarter of a inch. Either way the entire concept of AMHA and the 34 inch and under horse has now been thrown out the window.

Now that said I think personally it was only a matter of time until that concept had to change since the breed itself has changed so much over the years

 

[HGFarm]

Change can be good, but I dont know why they just didnt raise the size limit to 35 or 36 either. And I agree with the measuring in all these different places.. that is a lot for stewards, judges etc.. to keep track of.

And I agree with the overseas market... what measures 34 over here could certainly be 36 there!

I have not read through this whole thing yet, but does anyone know what the 'pro' and 'con' arguements were for this change and to measure at the bottom of the withers?!

 

[Margo_C-T]

May we presume that the full discussion of this issue will appear in the minutes of the Convention general meetings? I would love to hear with whom this idea originated, and what the argument in favor of it consisted of....

I will save further comment for another time, if ever.

Margo

 

[bingo]

I have not read through this whole thing yet, but does anyone know what the 'pro' and 'con' arguements were for this change and to measure at the bottom of the withers?!

I am sure some will choose to take offense at this however it seems to be simply a matter of money.

If many are afraid to compete after the fiasco at the World Show last year and instead choose to show elsewhere at a National level show taking the trainers, horses and dollars with them then it will surely have an effect on the income and status of the World Show.

This way the worry is taken away from the exhibitors about those horses that are 35+ inches and being able to measure in as well as allowing those 34 inch or 33 inch horses into the smaller height classes thus eliminating the need to "punish" anyone be it a big dog or a small one. At least that is sure how it looks to many at this point.