about giving payment back to buyer?

[appymini]

I sold a yrling filly and a foal colt. Waited 3 months for the colt to be ready to be weaned. So have been holding the yrling for 3 months.On the last month her legs became in perfect.And now they do not want her.I offered them my 3 yr old mare. That is nice and was shown abite. I bred her early spring. And had her on my website.But the problem.I did not relize now that the old price for the mare is still on my website Which was put on in Feb..Am I forced to sell her for this price and refund the rest.If anyone was going to inquire about her I did want more money now. I am at a stump what to do. Any ideas would be helpfull.

 

[Jill]

Oh

this is a tough one. I can see how you feel, and I believe exactly it's happened as you told us. But, if I were the other person, I would probably feel like you jacked up the price "just for me"

Will be following the thread and hoping someone else has a good idea to help fix things.

And, for whatever it is worth, any time I have bought a young foal (I have bought many sucklings, weanlings, yearlings), I buy the horse as it is and as it may grow. I haven't ever thought I should be able to get out of the deal if the horse is growing differently than I hoped. Just like if I buy a weanling and he/she doesn't grow into the adult horse I had envisioned, I do not expect the breeder to refund my money UNLESS we had a guarantee that this or that specific issue would not happen in the horse.

 

[HGFarm]

Did you have a contract on the sale, or perhaps keep your emails regarding the sales of the foal? I too, have always thought that once you committed to purchasing a horse, unless it came with guarantees that are not going to happen (say it was guaranteed to stay under 34 and now it's not, or it was sold as a show horse and the bite has gone way off or something) that you were supposed to pay them off and they were yours.

I usually have folks sign a contract that the deposit is non refundable, and the horse is sold 'as is' on a foal.

If you offered them the mare last spring BEFORE she was bred, I would just advise them that she was not bred at that time, and was NOT offered as a two for one deal at that price! It sounds like that is the scenario there. I would just let them know that now that the mare is pregnant the price has changed, or she is not for sale if that is the case.

Sounds like they may be trying to get an 'extra' now they know the mare is bred? That deal was offered last spring, and they did not take it. As the seller, it is your option to speak your mind on the deal at that time that they didnt take, and what the deal is now, whether your website is updated or not! I know a lot of folks who dont have access to keep their sites updated quickly, and if things change, they change.

I also know many who have posted on their sites that the prices and availability of horses on it are subject to change at any time.

If you offered them the mare last spring at a certain price as NOT bred, then they should not expect to get the same deal on her months later as bred!!!

Just my opinion...

 

[whimsical]

I agree. Just cause your website doesn't reflect the updated price it doesn't obligate you to sell it at that price.

I think you are being more than generous to let them change their mind. But you do need to communicate with them that the price on the website was for an open mare and she is now bred. And the updated price is ______.

 

[sdmini]

Been there done that and yes I've sold the horse at what I had the horse listed.

 

[appymini]

the yrling filly was paid in full 3 months ago.I got a the needles and vet check done.And fed her for that long out of my pocket.So to say the do own her out right RIGHT??.It is me that told them and felt bad. I told them I would refund 500.00 off the sale price that they paid.I also offered them another filly for the same full price..This other 3 yr old was advertised on my website for 1/2 the amount that they paid for the yrling.I had forgot I had a price on it.When I posted her for sale in Feb. If there was no price I would have advertised her for money money now.So I am wondering if I should refund them part the difference?Or tell them they own the yrling.I sent many picks to them when they just bought her of her legs and such.The blacksmith said it might be a growing thing that her legs are not straight anymore.And possible will be fine later.

Forgot to ad.the price was a mare that just got bred. Now she looks 5 months in foal.

 

[Baydreamfarms]

This is a tough one, but if the yearling was paid in full and there is a receipt of sale then to me that states that she is theirs. Bad legs and all. You can't buy a horse and then decide a few months later that "Oh this horse isn't what we thought I'll just go get my money back" The world doesn't work that way. Did you have a buyback clause to the sale? If not then the yearling is theirs, plain and simple.

In the contract of the purchase of my filly the deposit is non-refundable except if she cannot be delivered healthy. So if in the next week her legs go crooked she is still mine. Bad legs isn't a health issue so you shouldn't have to take back a horse that you sold in full. That is my opinion.

If it were me I'd wouldn't refund any money but if you want to trade her for another horse, then it should be an equal trade. If she doesn't want your generosity then she can have the yearling that she purchased and be out of your hair. You can't make everyone happy and you will kill yourself if you try.

 

[Brandi*]

At the same time, do you really want to send your filly there if they do not want her? To me if her legs are off, it would be very important to place her in just the right home that will love her regardless.

I can totally see why this situation would be annoying for you though. But I can't help but think of the welfare of the little filly regardless of the buyers obligation.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

Ok...coming from a buyer, this is how I see it. If they paid for the filly, then it is theirs. However, since you didn't want to cheat them and told them the truth about the filly's legs, I wonder if they have even seen the price of the bred mare on your site? If not, then I would immediately remove it, to prevent any further problem. If they have seen it, then I would say that as a buyer, I would expect to be sold a horse as advertised, especially since I see on your site that you don't mention "Prices may change", or you didn't put "in exchange for a horse of equal value" in your contract?

It's like when you buy something from a store for the price on the pricetag, and then you get up to the register and they tell you it's more expensive then posted because the model has been updated and the price tag just hasn't been changed yet. Does that make sense? You would still want it at the price that was posted underneath of it. Any other way is "false advertisement".

It's a tough situation. Good luck.

 

[HGFarm]

The yearling was paid for three months ago, she is theirs. If you offered them another filly at the same price, and they did not take it, KNOWING about this horse, then you have attempted to make it right and they said no. They were AWARE of the problem!! Now they are changing their mind?!!

The mare that was offered was not known to be bred at the time and was being offered as a not confirmed in foal mare- a single sale. It is now months later and they have decided to do something else? It does not work that way. What I offered someone months ago, and what is happening now, are two different things. You had already made your offer and it was refused.

If you insist on trying to make them happy, I would offer them another filly of equal value, or to apply the purchase price of the yearling they bought towards another horse for sale, but if the horse is now priced at more money, they need to pay the difference. It's a farm credit situation. I too would wonder about sending the filly there if they really dont want her, but do feel they had a chance to trade or exchange her and they refused.

On another note, I find it odd that at this stage, as a yearling, the filly's legs are not quite right. Are you SURE your farrier is trimming her correctly? If she was correct all along, why is she suddenly going off.. that sounds like an imbalanced trim as a Mini at this age has much of their growth done already.

Why didnt they take the yearling when they purchased her? Were they waiting for the colt to be ready also? They should have been paying board, etc.. on the filly in the meantime as she is weaned and ready to go and was when they bought her. She was already paid for in full 3 months ago and is theirs.

It is a tough call and I guess you will have to do what is right in your heart, but you already made and offer to exchange her and they were still happy to take her at that point. I would not refund any money- I would offer a farm credit towards something else. I know a LOT of farms who do not issue money back, only a farm credit.

This was not fair to you, to think the filly was sold, and the foal too, board the filly and get all her work done, etc... offer an exchange that they refused and now months later at the last minute they want money back.

 

[appymini]

thanks everyone for the advise and opinions. The person that does my website was notified yesturday.So hopefully soon It gets taken care of. I will for now play it by ear.Has anyone had a yrlings legs go better over time.?

On another note, I find it odd that at this stage, as a yearling, the filly's legs are not quite right. Are you SURE your farrier is trimming her correctly? If she was correct all along, why is she suddenly going off.. that sounds like an imbalanced trim as a Mini at this age has much of their growth done already.

Why didnt they take the yearling when they purchased her? Were they waiting for the colt to be ready also? They should have been paying board, etc.. on the filly in the meantime as she is weaned and ready to go and was when they bought her. She was already paid for in full 3 months ago and is theirs.

It is a tough call and I guess you will have to do what is right in your heart, but you already made and offer to exchange her and they were still happy to take her at that point. I would not refund any money- I would offer a farm credit towards something else. I know a LOT of farms who do not issue money back, only a farm credit.

This was not fair to you, to think the filly was sold, and the foal too, board the filly and get all her work done, etc... offer an exchange that they refused and now months later at the last minute they want money back.

Yes a farm credit would be a good idea.As they want to get into More falabellas down the road. Yes I told them I will feed, dewormed 2 times and stc stc. the filly till the colt was ready to go on the long trip.So they can keep each other company on the trip. I have a feeling about the trimming issue.He came yesturday. And I forced him to take his time on her. He did try to correct her trimming a bit. Good blacksmith is so hard to get around here.Just like avet. they all do not like minis

 

[[email protected]]

Couple of points - always have a contract!

It was nice of you to cover feeding/board/trims/deworming - that should have been on them - but should have been spelled out in a contract. I generally put in all our contracts the warranties that I will cover. If the horse is not what they want for any other reason they get a farm credit, less a certain dollar value. Cash paid in full horses are higher than horses that have been paid for over time - call it the inconvenience factor!

The changing their mind - that happens. Personally if the price on our website (not an old printed sales list - I have the prices subject to change verbage at the bottom of those!) are lower that is the price I will sell at as it is MY fault for not having the changes made.

Right now I'm dealing with a situation of a person that bought a mare to have a foal to raise (long back story on this one!). I didn't guarantee a live foal, but sold the mare feeling very confident she would have a foal - she's been reliable in the past - so we bred the mare before she left, and again last year for this year. She's open and I'm not comfortable making this person wait another year. (no it's not the stallion he had 5 foals this year from other mares!)

Now I could say to bad to sad to them, as I do feel I've upheld my end trying to get the mare pregnant, but they're good people and the mare is in a good home, so I'm offering them a replacement 'foal' - not a come pick your foal, but here are your options from the 2008 foals or an older gelding in lieu of the foal they had hoped to have. I may even take the mare back in exchange for two boys, but that is the extent of how far I am willing to go. And a new contract will be written to cover this 'change'.

Do I have to do this no, but the good will is worth it to me over someone unhappy from a situation neither of us created.

Good communication is the key to everyone walking away feeling good about a deal. So figure out what is fair to you, find out what they consider fair and work on a meeting of the minds!

 

[bingo]

The only thing any of us have in this business is our reputation. If the horse is not straight and is not now as you represented her it is in your best interest to take the loss IMO.

If you sold them a correct filly as a baby and she is now weaned and not straight it is not what they bought. Could you get technical? I guess you could but as for me I want every client I have to be happy with what they purchased. I would personally let the mare go for the price you had on your site and consider you may be taking a bit of a loss however what you gain in reputation far outweighs it. YOu have had this foal since day one so nothing she could have done would have affected how this foal grew. If you were talking a horse she had for a few months that would be a different story.

As far as charging board on a suckling foal. I know some farms will choose to do so but I have no intentions of ever purchasing from them. Again that is just me. The buyer has no choice but to leave a suckling with the seller until it is weaned. Why would I as a seller expect them to pay for it. It is part of the price as far as I am concerned to know that a new baby is sold and has a home to go to.

I have sold almost every foal we have had prior to 2 weeks of age and never once charged anyone board or farrier or vet bills until they were able to take possesion of the foal once weaned.

 

[Carolyn R]

"Has anyone had a yrlings legs go better over time.?"

I had a colt I purchased, he toed a a little, nothing that set off flags, but buy the time he was1.5 years old I decided to geld him. Beyond the slight toeing, he couldn't handle his hormones and he was taller than I wanted in a stud. He just had too many strikes in my opinion to continue on his road to become a stallion.

Well, he was gelded, it did wonders for his raging temper, he topped out at around 33 inches, but still taller than what I wanted in a stud. The toeing corrected itself when he filled out with more muscle. Now he is a very handsome gelding, but I am more than happy with my choice to geld him.

Even if he was everything I wanted him to be " look wise" his attitude was less than admirable as an intact boy.

I think a reputable breeder will always give the option of a refund/credit of a deposit before the animal leaves the premises, once the animal leaves the property with the new owner, it is their responsability,IMO. It becomes a whole lot stickeir when the animal has been paid in full and is waiting months to go to its new home.

Carolyn

 

[Minimor]

bingo, she didn't sell the filly as a baby, she sold her as a yearling. 3 months ago. There was no issue about charging board on a suckling foal--she is saying she DIDN'T charge any board for the 3 months she has kept the yearling.

This is a tough one. As a buyer I have to say that if I pay for a yearling and then before that yearling comes home the legs go off, I figure that's my yearling, come what may, and unless I and the seller have a contract that guarantees that yearling will grow up to maturity with straight legs then the seller has no obligation to make it right. I'd be disappointed that I chose a yearling that developed crooked legs, but I would be hoping that the next growth spurt might straighten those legs out again. If the seller chose to offer a replacement well and good, I might take it, and I would surely understand that I might not get offered any cash refund on any difference in price between my yearling and the replacement offered. I do know that some websites don't get updated frequently and whether or not it says it, prices do change with time. If the seller chose to tell me that the price on the replacement is now higher that listed on the website, then so be it. I don't feel that appymini needed to offer a replacement horse on this deal, and I don't feel appymini owes any cash refund on the price difference now that she has made the offer of a replacement mare.

Unfortunately, past threads on this subject on this forum have shown me that if the buyer were to come on here and post that they'd bought a yearling and before that yearling was delivered it developed crooked legs...that they paid for the horse in full 3 months ago but now they want either a different horse or a refund and the seller refuses to give either....most responses on here would be to the effect that this is terrible, this is obviously a bad seller and she should be ashamed of herself. That's the direction those threads usually take--I'm not saying that's how I think on the subject.

 

[appymini]

The only thing any of us have in this business is our reputation. If the horse is not straight and is not now as you represented her it is in your best interest to take the loss IMO.

If you sold them a correct filly as a baby and she is now weaned and not straight it is not what they bought. Could you get technical? I guess you could but as for me I want every client I have to be happy with what they purchased. I would personally let the mare go for the price you had on your site and consider you may be taking a bit of a loss however what you gain in reputation far outweighs it. YOu have had this foal since day one so nothing she could have done would have affected how this foal grew. If you were talking a horse she had for a few months that would be a different story.

As far as charging board on a suckling foal. I know some farms will choose to do so but I have no intentions of ever purchasing from them. Again that is just me. The buyer has no choice but to leave a suckling with the seller until it is weaned. Why would I as a seller expect them to pay for it. It is part of the price as far as I am concerned to know that a new baby is sold and has a home to go to.

I have sold almost every foal we have had prior to 2 weeks of age and never once charged anyone board or farrier or vet bills until they were able to take possesion of the foal once weaned.

I would never charge board for a suckling foal. I never said anything about that. I would too in the price includes the care and feeding. Needles and worming. I was talking about the Yrling.I told her too save on shipping fee.Best to wait till the little guy is ready.And I would feed the yrling.If they don`t go on the next trip i 2 weeks.Then it will the next trip in the end of Aug. I told her that was fine. I would feed them.SO that would make the yrling here for 4 months and abite for free. I believe I was being nice

Okey I just got a email from her. Hi Liz,

We are having a tough time making our minds up here! We are pretty sure that we would take Lady, but I am worried that we may be taking on more than we can handle by having a new foal in the spring, although that would be awesome! If you think that we can handle it, then we are willing to do it! Our other problem is that I am going to be looking after my parents on the West Coast (Nanaimo) until the 23rd of August, so can't get the horses shipped until then. We had thought that little Hombre wouldn't be able to leave his Mom until at least then. I will contact Mary, but would like your thoughts on this first.

Thanks,

So that is careing for them another month. Hombre is 3 1/2 months

 

[minie812]

I would say you fullfilled your end of the bargain. You kept them updated with pics fed at your expense and now they don't want her. I have had weanlings and yearlings legs straighten out as they grow and when you buy a foal that young or any horse for that matter should be sold as is unless otherwise stated. No refunds.

 

[JourneysEnd]

How about posting a picture of those legs. ?

This could just be a trimming issue.

I'd say since the horse is paid for, they own it. If you have another horse you're willing to swap even Steven and they're willing to do that - fine. It doesn't have to be even dollars and you don't have to refund dollars. It doesn't sound like you sold her with a money back guarantee.

 

[appymini]

 

[bingo]

My mistake I am sorry I am not sure where I got the suckling from?